Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[mnementh]

I did state that... like a day ago:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4273822/#msg4273822

And from my standpoint, zero hassle. We've started the dispute resolution process. That is how you're supposed to do this. As I said, starting the dispute is not in and of itself an attack; it is simply how business is done.

We in this thread do, however, seem to get pretty invested in these incidents.  My original intent was just to let my fellow TEA members know about another suspect seller. After that, the whole thing did seem to take on a life of its own... 

mnem
TEAnonymous members nit-picking in the thread...? Perish the thought!  

[Vince]

Well, as promised, here's a (brief) report on the Agilent DMM logger interface.

Wow....you sure were motivated to get this working, well done !!

As for me I probably would have thrown both meters in the trash out of anger and despair ! 

You remind me that I need to make a serial IR cable for my old Metrix DMM 53/54/56. It's unobtainium, need to make your own.

[mnementh]

Uggghhh...

Okies... anybody got any tech ref on the monitors used in these HP scopes? I understand the difference between the two implementations is the 54621D and family use 32-grayscale palette, while the 54600A and family use a 2-grayscale palette.

54645A/54600A use HP 2090-0316/DataRay CDM-7SF191, the 54621D uses HP 2090-0384/DataRay CDM-7SX191. My searches in the available HP SMs and on the internet turned up bupkis.

Before I go guessing based on poking around with my scope, does anybody here have actual pinouts and or schematic for these monitors?

Tomorrow I figured I'd start looking at the  CLIP package from the 54645A and see what I can find there. Maybe lookit the video chip on each and see if I can find some datasheets. 

mnem
 

I'm would be surprized if they aren't interchangeable, they look to be standard bought-in monochrome monitors to me, the different greyscaling would be something done in the video processing, on the mainboard and the output just a video signal.
Certainly I saw the video signal on the diagrams for the 54645A, that was posted a few weeks back. I think the other connections are power (+15V?), an external pot for brightness, can't remember what else there is. The chip on the Hitachi CDM-7SF191 board in my 54615B is a uPC1379C, this is a sync signal processor IC intended for small B/W & color TVs and does the vertical & horizontal stuff, that is done by more discrete parts on the earlier scope displays (the only one that a diagram seems available for).David

Yeeah, I'm not sure. IIRC, these are actually a TTL digital input monitor, so not that simple. I need to do some research. 

mnem
 

Neck board has an added 74S03, so maybe 16 new shades of gray.

CNC industry have had small screens for quite some time.
Possibly already have an almost ready replacement LCD.

The 7403 is on the CDM-7SF191 in the 54645A/54600A/54615B, the newer CDM-7SX191 looks to use one or two transistors instead. The larger monitor boards look to use a similar signal processor IC, layout has changed a bit, need to find better pictures.

The boards in my CDM-7SF191 from 54615B, taken before the re-capicide.   

Pictures of CDM-7SX191 from ePay listing.         

David

Oooh... good idea, looking on fleaBay for pics rather than beating my head against nonexistent documentation.  I've done this before; no idea why I didn't just start there. 

So possibly the difference is just support for the uPC1379C. VCC/GND are the same pins; I need to trace out the circuits for the BRIGHTNESS pot and see where they are in the pinout.

mnem
 

[Vince]

[..]

In other news, lots of new POI added to post #2 (the extension to the TE list in post #1). Does anyone actually use the POI lists to find stuff in this thread?

Wow !

I don't use it OFTEN, but I know it's there and sure appreciate it when I need it !

All my old beloved junk is listed there, thanks to you. All my hollow state Tek this or that, even my beloved Nixie Rochar DMM and Metrix boat anchors !

When I need to dig out an old TE of mine I know I can just go there and find it, it's very valuable to me !

Please keep doing it, please........ please ? 

I assure you I do appreciate all the effort you are putting into this silent background archiving, I really do !

Please don't stop...

[BU508A]

In other news, lots of new POI added to post #2 (the extension to the TE list in post #1). Does anyone actually use the POI lists to find stuff in this thread?

Yes, I do from time to time.

[AVGresponding]

Well, as promised, here's a (brief) report on the Agilent DMM logger interface.

Wow....you sure were motivated to get this working, well done !!

As for me I probably would have thrown both meters in the trash out of anger and despair ! 

You remind me that I need to make a serial IR cable for my old Metrix DMM 53/54/56. It's unobtainium, need to make your own.

Far too much time and money invested to give up now...



As for making an IR-serial cable for your MX's, that's quite a project, unless there's schematics and firmware available. No chance of finding one at all?

[Robert763]

Fixed the display on my latest Fluke 8060A DMM this afternoon. As I suspected it was just the LCD connection. I noticed the battery connector was intermittent so changed that while I had it open.
The LCD was the older type with a separate front polarizer and tubular directionally conductive rubber interconnect rather than the later flat or square zebra strip.
A few notes for nyone doing this fix.
1/ The old window and mask are pushed up towawds the top ofthe display. If it is a separate polarizer this can now be lifted out.
2/ The LCD is moved out from under the two clips at the bottom by gently pushing up the same way the window came out. use fingernails or a plastic tool, never a metal tool.
3/ The conductive strip can now be lifited out. The strip, lcd edge where it connects and PCB pads can now be cleaned with a lint free cloth (I use cleanroom grade wipes) moistened with IPA. The cloth should only be damp not wet. Ideally wear gloves to stop fresh oil from your skin on the parts.
4/ If you need to clean the window or polarizer use anti-static foam cleaner or similar not a solvent.
5/ The assembly order is strip and LCD then the polarizer (if separate) mask and window. The strip is placed in and then the LCD is inserted pressing down gently to compress the strip and go under the two clips at the bottom. The polrizer and mask are then slid in. The window is then snapped it on top. put one edge uderthe clip at the side and gently press the other side under it's clip.
6/ When doing up the case screws if the screw starts to get tight in the first turn or two don't force it in. Unscrew fully until you feel the step of the start of the thread and try again.

Fluke and Vishay say BAM 

So I now have 4 fully working 8060As

[factory]

Uggghhh...

Okies... anybody got any tech ref on the monitors used in these HP scopes? I understand the difference between the two implementations is the 54621D and family use 32-grayscale palette, while the 54600A and family use a 2-grayscale palette.

54645A/54600A use HP 2090-0316/DataRay CDM-7SF191, the 54621D uses HP 2090-0384/DataRay CDM-7SX191. My searches in the available HP SMs and on the internet turned up bupkis.

Before I go guessing based on poking around with my scope, does anybody here have actual pinouts and or schematic for these monitors?

Tomorrow I figured I'd start looking at the  CLIP package from the 54645A and see what I can find there. Maybe lookit the video chip on each and see if I can find some datasheets. 

mnem
 

I'm would be surprized if they aren't interchangeable, they look to be standard bought-in monochrome monitors to me, the different greyscaling would be something done in the video processing, on the mainboard and the output just a video signal.
Certainly I saw the video signal on the diagrams for the 54645A, that was posted a few weeks back. I think the other connections are power (+15V?), an external pot for brightness, can't remember what else there is. The chip on the Hitachi CDM-7SF191 board in my 54615B is a uPC1379C, this is a sync signal processor IC intended for small B/W & color TVs and does the vertical & horizontal stuff, that is done by more discrete parts on the earlier scope displays (the only one that a diagram seems available for).David

Yeeah, I'm not sure. IIRC, these are actually a TTL digital input monitor, so not that simple. I need to do some research. 

mnem
 

Neck board has an added 74S03, so maybe 16 new shades of gray.

CNC industry have had small screens for quite some time.
Possibly already have an almost ready replacement LCD.

The 7403 is on the CDM-7SF191 in the 54645A/54600A/54615B, the newer CDM-7SX191 looks to use one or two transistors instead. The larger monitor boards both look to use a similar signal processor IC, layout has changed a bit, need to find better pictures.

The boards in my CDM-7SF191 from 54615B, taken before the re-capicide.   

Pictures of CDM-7SX191 from ePay listing.         

David

Oooh... good idea, looking on fleaBay for pics rather than beating my head against nonexistent documentation.  I've done this before; no idea why I didn't just start there. 

So possibly the difference is just support for the uPC1379C. VCC/GND are the same pins; I need to trace out the circuits for the BRIGHTNESS pot and see where they are in the pinout.

mnem
 

I missed a word out, they both look to use a similar IC on the larger CRT board, just we need better pictures of the newer 7SX version to confirm if it is the same IC. I can't find any teardowns showing this, hopefully someone on here can provide some pictures. 

David

[TERRA Operative]

I've decided it's time to build something to use some of my test equipment on.

A tube amp it is... 

It's been sitting here in parts for a couple years now (well a bit more than a couple...) and is going to be a 35W + 35W Push-Pull stereo amp using 4x 7591 'Beam-Power Pentode' tubes for amplification, and some 6AN8 tubes for the pre-amp stage. It's taken and modified slightly from the March 1961 'Electronics World' magazine.

So far I'm drilling holes in the chassis, so not much to see yet.

[Vince]

Well, as promised, here's a (brief) report on the Agilent DMM logger interface.

Wow....you sure were motivated to get this working, well done !!

As for me I probably would have thrown both meters in the trash out of anger and despair ! 

You remind me that I need to make a serial IR cable for my old Metrix DMM 53/54/56. It's unobtainium, need to make your own.

Far too much time and money invested to give up now...



As for making an IR-serial cable for your MX's, that's quite a project, unless there's schematics and firmware available. No chance of finding one at all?

No chance whatsoever. Not worth wasting anytime trying to find one.

It should not be difficult to make one. There is a thread for these meters here somewhere and some guy said he made his own and was easy. A friend this week also made his own cable without trouble.

I actually want to make one if just for the fun of designing and building it, the joy of making something that works (hopefully !) . Using it for something useful is only icing on the cake ! 
It's not USB it's just simple RS232. The bench version of this meter uses the same PC S/W, and it's basically the same meter inside.. .just in a bigger box...
Have the manual for the bench version, remember the other day I scoped its RS232 output with the HP MSO.

So I have the details I need... it's full duplex, +/- 12V voltage levels, and speed is 2400 Baud which is super slow so should not be hard to get the IR bits working at that speed.

Just need a jelly bean IR LED and Photo transistor or Photo diode, of a diameter that fits inside the holes in the DMM. Need to figure out what wavelength the IR LED uses in the DMM, for better results, but that's about it I think...

Could just ask my friend what he did for his cable, but that would take the fun out of it all. Want to design my own, I like designing stuff... simple projects like this are ideal as it's cheap and quick to do, and the chances of success / reward are high... which keeps you motivated to then work on the next project on the list ! 

[Vince]

I've decided it's time to build something to use some of my test equipment on.

A tube amp it is... 

It's been sitting here in parts for a couple years now (well a bit more than a couple...) and is going to be a 35W + 35W Push-Pull stereo amp using 4x 7591 'Beam-Power Pentode' tubes for amplification, and some 6AN8 tubes for the pre-amp stage. It's taken and modified slightly from the March 1961 'Electronics World' magazine.

So far I'm drilling holes in the chassis, so not much to see yet.

WOW !!  Didn't know you were into vintage stuff, you took me by surprise !!!   

I hope the finished product will look better than the 3D rendering... the colours are a bit awkward !

Looks like there is only a volume control, no control for left / right balance ? Could be useful...

6AN8 LIKE ! I mean....it's used in my Tek type 502A scope, 7 of them in there no less ! So I could do with spares, send me some ! 

[TERRA Operative]

I love old glowing glass  , I got a collection of CRT's including a Maltese Cross Crookes tube and a 'Beam Bend' experiment CRT that has a phosphor panel along the path of the electrons so you can see a line and bend it with magnets. Even got a HeNe laser tube here somewhere (I used to have 5-10mW ones when I was younger, pulled from old tabletop-mounted barcode scanners you used to see in the shops).

I don't often use balance controls, I like to set up the room properly instead. My living room has a decent layout, so not a problem.

I plan to eventually get a reel-to-reel tape player to hook up to this amp too, but that's a future project....


I also have a bunch of parts to make a tube based PSU, good for a couple hundred volts or more. One day I'll get to building that too.

[AVGresponding]

*kicks a bag of spanners down the Discord staircase*

[Peter_O]

I will not drive to Berlin Steglitz, no I will not   



https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/hewlett-packard-kepco-uher-etc-/2146996418-168-3415

[bitseeker]

In other news, lots of new POI added to post #2 (the extension to the TE list in post #1). Does anyone actually use the POI lists to find stuff in this thread?

Yes, I use the POI sometimes. Thanks for maintaining it 

Certainly. BU508A has been catching new equipment that shows up so I can add them. 

I'm tossing around some ideas in the back of my head regarding how to keep it growing. It's gotten pretty large, affecting its usability.

[bitseeker]

[..]

In other news, lots of new POI added to post #2 (the extension to the TE list in post #1). Does anyone actually use the POI lists to find stuff in this thread?

Wow !

I don't use it OFTEN, but I know it's there and sure appreciate it when I need it !

All my old beloved junk is listed there, thanks to you. All my hollow state Tek this or that, even my beloved Nixie Rochar DMM and Metrix boat anchors !

When I need to dig out an old TE of mine I know I can just go there and find it, it's very valuable to me !

Please keep doing it, please........ please ? 

I assure you I do appreciate all the effort you are putting into this silent background archiving, I really do !

Please don't stop...

Don't worry. It's not being discontinued. I was just gauging its practicality and use as I contemplate how to improve it.

[mnementh]

Am I missing something here, to me, it is exactly as described, not working, but lights up, nothing on screen and handle missing  Have you powered it up?, did the lights come on? If so, sorry, but I think they have fulfilled their brief. Ok, it is clear that at least 1 PCB is missing, are they supposed to be aware of that? It sucks, I know, but the Dwagon is normally more astute than this, did you not ask any questions about this?

Short version: It was sold as an oscilloscope for parts, not sold as 75% of an oscilloscope with crucial parts missing.

That is "significantly not as described".

As I explained to Vince; had it been a non-critical external part obviously missing from photos, or an accessory, that would have been different.

There's fair reason to believe the seller knew they were doing something dishonest, or they'd have taken the whole monitor. It is much easier to remove than that PCB and doesn't risk causing a CRT implosion.

Of course, taking the whole monitor would've left a very obvious hole in the face of the unit.

SELLER HOMEPAGE: https://www.ebay.com/usr/tekyard_medical


mnem
Those bent pins on the CRT totes made me go tho...

Or just breaking the CRT...

Why the fuck didn't I look closer and notice this immediately?   

Added to the dispute. 

mnem
 

[bitseeker]

I will not drive to Berlin Steglitz, no I will not   



https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/hewlett-packard-kepco-uher-etc-/2146996418-168-3415

Ooh! Are you sure you're not in the mood for a little drive? You're much closer than I am.

[mnementh]

...So far I'm drilling holes in the chassis, so not much to see yet.

I keep telling myself that's going to be my first real foray into lost-PLA casting; a amplifier chassis designed in frustion360 and cast from recycled soda cans, etc...

mnem

[Cubdriver]

I love old glowing glass  , I got a collection of CRT's including a Maltese Cross Crookes tube and a 'Beam Bend' experiment CRT that has a phosphor panel along the path of the electrons so you can see a line and bend it with magnets. Even got a HeNe laser tube here somewhere (I used to have 5-10mW ones when I was younger, pulled from old tabletop-mounted barcode scanners you used to see in the shops).

I don't often use balance controls, I like to set up the room properly instead. My living room has a decent layout, so not a problem.

I plan to eventually get a reel-to-reel tape player to hook up to this amp too, but that's a future project....


I also have a bunch of parts to make a tube based PSU, good for a couple hundred volts or more. One day I'll get to building that too.

   My whole test-gear collection descent into lunacy began 12-13 years ago when I got back into playing with tubes by building a guitar amp kit followed by a small Elekit audio amp and found the audio forums.  Wanting to eventually start 'rolling my own' led to the purchase of the HP 3562A dynamic signal analyzer and the discovery of the HPAK mailing list, which led to the first HP 5245L counter and nixie addiction, and, well, here we are.

I have various power and output transformers gathered for my eventual builds, too.  Some one of these years…

Look forward to seeing your amp build!

-Pat

[m k]

Uggghhh...

Okies... anybody got any tech ref on the monitors used in these HP scopes? I understand the difference between the two implementations is the 54621D and family use 32-grayscale palette, while the 54600A and family use a 2-grayscale palette.

54645A/54600A use HP 2090-0316/DataRay CDM-7SF191, the 54621D uses HP 2090-0384/DataRay CDM-7SX191. My searches in the available HP SMs and on the internet turned up bupkis.

Before I go guessing based on poking around with my scope, does anybody here have actual pinouts and or schematic for these monitors?

Tomorrow I figured I'd start looking at the  CLIP package from the 54645A and see what I can find there. Maybe lookit the video chip on each and see if I can find some datasheets. 

mnem
 

I'm would be surprized if they aren't interchangeable, they look to be standard bought-in monochrome monitors to me, the different greyscaling would be something done in the video processing, on the mainboard and the output just a video signal.
Certainly I saw the video signal on the diagrams for the 54645A, that was posted a few weeks back. I think the other connections are power (+15V?), an external pot for brightness, can't remember what else there is. The chip on the Hitachi CDM-7SF191 board in my 54615B is a uPC1379C, this is a sync signal processor IC intended for small B/W & color TVs and does the vertical & horizontal stuff, that is done by more discrete parts on the earlier scope displays (the only one that a diagram seems available for).David

Yeeah, I'm not sure. IIRC, these are actually a TTL digital input monitor, so not that simple. I need to do some research. 

mnem
 

Neck board has an added 74S03, so maybe 16 new shades of gray.

CNC industry have had small screens for quite some time.
Possibly already have an almost ready replacement LCD.

Yeah, ages ago we had a similar discussion; there was another member who was quite knowledgeable about these small-frame industrial monitors and even suggested some possible LCD substitutes. I don't know where to even begin looking for that.

mnem
 

Sharp was a big player but can't remember they ever really did complete sets.

OmniVision and Industrial Panels popped up but probably for reference only.

7" seems to be a bid difficult size.
Panels are either slow or wide, or both.
What kind of monitors those fancy apartment security panels have?

So the 74S03 was the opposite, TTL thing and transistor version possibly more analog.
Since uPC is a sync separator my guess is that even if it is missing its function is still most likely there and scope connection unchanged.

Have you tried old TV?
Even if it doesn't sync you may still see something else than snow.

[m k]

Seen today on Ebay UK, anybody requiring a 50Mhz LA, starting bid of only £15...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255609408885
WTF is this?

Well it's pretty obvious, it's some kind of screen saver, to protect the precious CRT ! 

Of course, but frame clearly needs some Quick N Brite.

[Cubdriver]

Interesting & slightly badly listed vintage DVM for those in the USA, cheap start price but could be expensive as it has a reserve. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/295045755315



David

I took a crack at it, but the reserve was higher than my bid.  Oh well - I have too many projects already!

-Pat

I just looked at eBuy to follow up on this, as he’d relisted it again with the same $12ish starting bid.  This time it sold - for the reserve - $150!  It’s a cool little meter, but not *that* cool, IMO.  Hope it’s going to a good home; suspect it likely is given what was paid for it.

-Pat

[Vince]

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/hewlett-packard-kepco-uher-etc-/2146996418-168-3415

I will not drive to Berlin Steglitz, no I will not   

Yes you will drive, yes you will drive....

That said, we don't know how cool this stuff is until we know how much he wants for it 

I mean the ad says : " Preise auf Anfrage! "

Now my German is more than rusty, but doesn't that mean " Price no Request " ?

So it's not like he was selling the entire lot for a bag of crisps... you buy one TE at a time and hope he is not too greedy.
So could get very expensive real fast... 

Still, worth picking 2 or 3 of your most preferred items I guess...

Have a good trip ! 

I am quite interested in what looks like an old A3 format HP Plotter...

[Vince]

Am I missing something here, to me, it is exactly as described, not working, but lights up, nothing on screen and handle missing  Have you powered it up?, did the lights come on? If so, sorry, but I think they have fulfilled their brief. Ok, it is clear that at least 1 PCB is missing, are they supposed to be aware of that? It sucks, I know, but the Dwagon is normally more astute than this, did you not ask any questions about this?

Short version: It was sold as an oscilloscope for parts, not sold as 75% of an oscilloscope with crucial parts missing.

That is "significantly not as described".

As I explained to Vince; had it been a non-critical external part obviously missing from photos, or an accessory, that would have been different.

There's fair reason to believe the seller knew they were doing something dishonest, or they'd have taken the whole monitor. It is much easier to remove than that PCB and doesn't risk causing a CRT implosion.

Of course, taking the whole monitor would've left a very obvious hole in the face of the unit.

SELLER HOMEPAGE: https://www.ebay.com/usr/tekyard_medical


mnem
Those bent pins on the CRT totes made me go tho...

Or just breaking the CRT...

Why the fuck didn't I look closer and notice this immediately?   

Added to the dispute. 

mnem
 

Ah, well.... that's gonna be more difficult to fix than a circuit board for sure... but not all hope is lost ! I mean you just bragged about how good your other half was at sucking, maybe she can bring the vacuum back into this CRT ?! 

No, I did NOT just say this, wasn't me officer !!!!