Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[TERRA Operative]

Boy howdy do I hate lost software....

I simply cannot seem to turn up a single copy of the 'Adjustment Program' (part number 04263-65005) for the HP/Agilent 4263A and 4263B LCZ meters anywhere. I've been scraping all over the internet, contacting cal houses etc and just... nothing...
Keysight Japan just blew me off with the big old NOPE! when I asked. Thanks for that guys...... 

I really want to get my hands on a copy of this BASIC program to port to Python so these instruments can continue to be calibrated. I'm sure someone somewhere has it, but I haven't found them yet... 

[shakalnokturn]

Boy howdy do I hate lost software....

I simply cannot seem to turn up a single copy of the 'Adjustment Program' (part number 04263-65005) for the HP/Agilent 4263A and 4263B LCZ meters anywhere. I've been scraping all over the internet, contacting cal houses etc and just... nothing...
Keysight Japan just blew me off with the big old NOPE! when I asked. Thanks for that guys...... 

I really want to get my hands on a copy of this BASIC program to port to Python so these instruments can continue to be calibrated. I'm sure someone somewhere has it, but I haven't found them yet... 

Tried asking HPAK on groups.io ?
(I just realised I haven't subscribed since their move from Yahoo groups... Just shows how much HP I deal with !)

[factory]

Boy howdy do I hate lost software....

I simply cannot seem to turn up a single copy of the 'Adjustment Program' (part number 04263-65005) for the HP/Agilent 4263A and 4263B LCZ meters anywhere. I've been scraping all over the internet, contacting cal houses etc and just... nothing...
Keysight Japan just blew me off with the big old NOPE! when I asked. Thanks for that guys...... 

I really want to get my hands on a copy of this BASIC program to port to Python so these instruments can continue to be calibrated. I'm sure someone somewhere has it, but I haven't found them yet... 

Tried asking HPAK on groups.io ?
(I just realised I haven't subscribed since their move from Yahoo groups... Just shows how much HP I deal with !)

He has asked there; https://groups.io/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/topic/looking_for_a_copy_of_the/104899722?p

David

[shakalnokturn]

One of my last failures to resist temptation, it was cheapish, there is nothing much about it on the www, curiosity got the better of me.

Chitai (Taiwan) model 5501 digital bench multimeter, a bit of teardown porn to make it better known to the TEA masses.

It's an auto-ranging 30k count meter with a BNC frequency counter input (up to 30MHz), and RS-232 interface.

I dumped the firmware from the EPROM, then wanted to save the calibration data from the XLS93C66 (EXEL) EEPROM and ran into unexpected problems with my Xeltek universal programmer, impossible to read the XLS93C66, I can read other 93C66's no problem, but this one the "DO" pin just stays high on reading, yet in the DMM "DO" toggles cleanly, I just don't get it... Any clues ?

I'm looking for any documentation: Manuals, specifications, dedicated software, calibration procedure.
Known rebrands?

[AVGresponding]

Chitai (Taiwan) model 5501 digital bench multimeter, a bit of teardown porn to make it better known to the TEA masses.

Any idea what the primary reference is? That LM336 can't possibly be it, it's nowhere near stable enough

[shakalnokturn]

Any idea what the primary reference is? That LM336 can't possibly be it, it's nowhere near stable enough

No clue what the LM336 is for, ADC reference is internal to the CS5508.

The small PCB on the side is for the frequency counter.

No one has commented on what I find to be the most surprising design choice yet.

[shakalnokturn]

Vince:
Did you catch today's HP 34401A for 250€ ?
I nearly went for it (would have let my Keithley 2100 go in it's favour)  by the time I asked for photos of the actual item he was selling rather than borrowed pictures out of the blue, it was sold 

[factory]

No clue what the LM336 is for, ADC reference is internal to the CS5508.

The small PCB on the side is for the frequency counter.

No one has commented on what I find to be the most surprising design choice yet.

I'm surprized a Chinese DMM has so many IC sockets, would have thought they would cut costs as much as possible. Or is it the to allow use of whatever parts were cheaper that week, such as relays with extra pins?

David

[shakalnokturn]

I'm surprized a Chinese DMM has so many IC sockets, would have thought they would cut costs as much as possible. Or is it the to allow use of whatever parts were cheaper that week, such as relays with extra pins?

David

I'm not under the impression they cheaped it that much on the whole, it does date back to mid '90s things were better quality then and going by the number of them on the second hand market it's possible they weren't exported at the time.

The relay sockets are a funny choice, I cant think of any 8 pin models that would fit there but having an 8 pin socket to fit a 10 pin relay  that would have deserved the extra 2 just for mechanical support.

Well, it still isn't the detail that bothers me the most...

[Vince]

Good luck with those Vince, they all look in very nice condition, must have been well cared for, unlike most TE on sale at the usual places.

David

THEY ARE MINE !!! 

100 Euros a pop was too much for me, so I tried my chance and offered him 140 for the lot.
almost 2 weeks later, he still has not bothered even replying to me !
Which means that he took my offer as an insult or something ?!

Well I had therefore given up on these two puppies, you can't win them all can you...

BUT... last Saturday I noticed that he lowered the price to 70 Euros ! 2x70= 140... Euro for Euro the eaxct offer that I made !

So 140 was so low to him that he didn't bother replying to me, yet the same guy, after only 2 weeks on-line, decides to take 30% off ?
That's inconsistent, doesn't add up... he is strange.

Anyway, if he was now somehow OK with 70 a piece, how comes he STILL doesn't reply to me to say :" OK sorry for ignoring your message for 2 weeks, I had a second thought and decided I was OK for 140, let's proceed if you are still interested"... something like that.

No, he didn't do that... People drive me nuts on this website...they really do.

Anyway, at 70 a piece, it was my initial offer so I clicked the BUY button...
Guy somehow this time did promptly message me to thank me for my purchase !
Ah ? But still no response to my original message 2 weeks ago ? No ? No 

Apparently he shipped them today... should be receiving them later this week and be able to play with them this week-end, can't wait...   

[Vince]

Vince:
Did you catch today's HP 34401A for 250€ ?
I nearly went for it (would have let my Keithley 2100 go in it's favour)  by the time I asked for photos of the actual item he was selling rather than borrowed pictures out of the blue, it was sold 

Nope didn't see it... no regrets though, I was not to blindly spend 250 euros on a fishy ad with not even pics of the actual item...

Actually I don't even have HPAK in my search term list... I don't bother, everybody wants the same models so any good deal disappears instantly.
I am tired of this game. So I decided that when my lab and finances are ready for HPAK stuff, I will just avoid fishy stuff and instead just pay market price, but take my time to find a nice one, so that I have my money's worth and limit the risks.

My search list is quite short :

Tektronix
Oscilloscopes (like, I don't have enough of them already ?!  )
Metrix
Frequencemetre
Rochar
Nikc

[TERRA Operative]

I picked up a pair of HP 8112A pulse gens for cheap, one has the dreaded E22 error (probably a seized fan causing a HP hybrid to overheat, the other seeemmsss fine from photos. (I have two already but one needs spare parts, fkn unobtanium chips.... will combine and mix and match as needed) and also a HP 427A also for cheap, with the mains input option 001, just for some restoration fun.

Pictures to come once they are delivered.

[AVGresponding]

I'm surprized a Chinese DMM has so many IC sockets, would have thought they would cut costs as much as possible. Or is it the to allow use of whatever parts were cheaper that week, such as relays with extra pins?

David

I'm not under the impression they cheaped it that much on the whole, it does date back to mid '90s things were better quality then and going by the number of them on the second hand market it's possible they weren't exported at the time.

The relay sockets are a funny choice, I cant think of any 8 pin models that would fit there but having an 8 pin socket to fit a 10 pin relay  that would have deserved the extra 2 just for mechanical support.

Well, it still isn't the detail that bothers me the most...

re: The IC sockets, remember it's Taiwan, not the mainland. A subtle distinction perhaps, but a real one. Never seen a 10-pin socket, the next, common, size up is 14-pin afaik. I use pin header sockets when I need an unusual number, but this is obviously labour and cost intensive.

As to the other, I suspect you are hinting at the use of a membrane keyboard, a crime so heinous that many members here will have mentally blocked that image from their minds...

[TERRA Operative]

Some toys arrived today! 

A dual rackmount set of HP 8112A pulse generators (The left is known bad, will be used for parts)

And a Tek 067-0625-00 peak-to-peak detector, alongside my reproduction. Now, once I restore the Tek item, I'll be able to compare and optimise my design for v2.0 

[EggertEnjoyer123]

I'm back with more dumpster finds.

Here is a Tektronix 564. It seems to work after turning on (except for the calibrator, but I think that's because the DC block capacitor failed, since I can see a pulse at every transition of the square wave).

I'm pretty sure I'm at the double digits now with scopes collected.

[TERRA Operative]

Well, that was easy, the busted HP 8112A Pulse Gen just had a blown fuse on the -23V line...
I was about to deep dive into it when I remembered the golden rule "Thou shalt check voltages!"   

So, now I have 3 working 8112A pulse gens and one not working. At least I'll be able to mix and match parts to narrow down what's up with the remaining dead one. Then once I've run through the adjustment procedure, I'll sell them all! 
On my next visit to Akihabara, I'll grab some Ni-Cd batteries for them too, the existing ones were weeellll leaking, but luckily did no damage to the PCB.



Also, the HP 427A I just bought came today too. Seller said ohms range works, but DCV doesn't and ACV was untested. It's in really nice cosmetic condition for it's age though. Barely even needs a wipe down.
I gave it a test on my Yokogawa calibrators, and it turns out all ranges work, but the flakey paint on the gauge catches the needle, so that will be replaced with a laser printed sticker once I scan it and rebuild it as a vector graphic in Adobe Illustrator etc.

The thing definitely does need an adjustment too, so I'll replace all the electrolytics and the couple of carbon composite resistors with metal film, and then tweak it to perfection.
I also ordered some 3D printed feet in resin with my latest batch of PCB's (stay tuned for something a little special on the way.... ) and I'll start working on a replacement 22.5V battery too. I think I'll make up some sort of box using 15x AA cells all hooked in series...

[factory]

I'm sure I measured 28V on the input to the regulator of mine, when running on AC. I would consider fitting 3x PP3 9V batteries, as I've seen far more AAs leak than the 9V batteries, something to think about as the batteries leaktubes will get left & forgotten about.







All the capacitors measured fine in my 427A, except for the C30D one.



I haven't done anything with the peeling scale, it isn't bad enough to jam the needle and hasn't got any worse in the time I've owned it.

David

[m k]

My machine doesn't have a handle, is it special?

[Vince]

Wow that was quick ! The two Rochar instruments have already arrived !

Here they are... crappy pic but, in the flesh they look very nice... partly because I believe they have been subjected to some kind of cosmetic restoration work.
I am pretty convinced their dark blue cabinet were repainted. Was nicely done though, so I don't mind.
The shiny BNC connectors on the counter... up close were all black/tarnished originally, but the guy tried to clean them up. Little bits of the original black oxidisation are still visible towards the back of the connector where it's harder to reach. But that's fine, I would mostly likely have done juste the same, and would have ended up with a similar result.

The displays on both instruments is shockingly beautiful...then realised it was because tehy both have a crystal clear, smooth, shiny, scratch free plastic orange colour filter.
I don't know if the guy polished them or if they were just lucky survivors... but it sure motivates me to polish it on my other Rochar TE, now I know what a difference it makes to the "presence" these instruments can ooze.

Gave them a quick test ride of course....

COUNTER

Well, just like my other such counter that I bought 3 years ago already... it works perfectly out of the box, and even far exceeds its specs !
Service manual gives it for 2.2MHz but I clocked it a solid 2.80MHz so about 30% extra B/W !
I guess Rochar liked to under -promise so they can over-deliver and make their customers happy...


DVM

Just like my other 3 such DVMs.... it's defective ! 
Why is it all the counter works perfectly but the DVM never do ?!

- From cold, it acts weird, the display is free running and permanently overloaded.
Once warm after a few minutes, it recovers and starts to act normally.

- Readings are ballpark I would say.  About 4% too high.

- There is zero-offset of about 10/15 counts which the corresponding trimmer on the front panel can't cancel out.
16 counts is not massive. Inside the meter there is a second trimmer for a coarser adjustement. Maybe that one needs tweakign a hair and that's all.
This offset looks liek it amounts for about half of the discrepancy.
The other half is probably the FSD calibration. that too can be adjusted from the front panel... .but I didn't try since it makes no sense unless you have zeroed out the meter first...

- The symbol display tube is dying. Very dim and a strange glow at the back of it near the glass the glass envelope.
Maybe I will get lucky and all that's wrong is the HV supply for that particular tube... will check for that, but I am not holding my breath.

So basically I have now 4 of these Rochar DVM in this format / series, and none of them work ! 
So I really need to move my butt and fix them.... at least one of them...  then I have 3 spare ones to keep the first one running forever...
Nah, the goal is to fix all of them of course !!!

[factory]

My machine doesn't have a handle, is it special?

Maybe was in a combining case or frame, handles & feet won't fit. Having said that the handle is riveted in place.

David

[duckduck]

My machine doesn't have a handle, is it special?

I had a similar question/observation. EEVblog user and pillar of the TEA community factory helped me (with pictures!):

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4458607/#msg4458607

[m k]

Aug-72 manual (table 7-1) has top cover (with handle) as 5060-5972.

Price list 73-74 has blue top cover as 5060-5918 and priced $5.
Noted also that olive gray is 5060-5972.
Few lines later is handle assy 5060-5992 priced $15.

Seems that something has changed between those times.

[factory]

Finally got round to replacing the capacitors with perished seals, in the sand filled HP Harrison 6920B meter calibrator, thankfully it hadn't been run over with a tank. Picture below is from a few years ago, two of the labels fell off by themselves, I can't remember why the cal label is half removed.







One of the 100uF (C17) was in a very bad way, ESR was 12 ohms, the others checked OK but needed replacing before they leaked. I was going to replace the two 5uF 150V type 40D capacitors, but the 50 year old ones tested better than the new 30D replacements.  One of the 1200uF caps got changed about 10 years ago.





While it was apart I took both side frames off, to allow me to straighten the chassis parts that were bent & allowing the top cover to drop inside, this problem is visible in the first picture.

A quick test of the output and a check of the ripple on C17, I'm not the first to notice it being a little high, the voltages often seem unbalanced for C16 & C17 too, sometimes the voltage is also above the 50V rating of the original capacitors, I've fitted 63V replacements. C17 had been already been replaced in the past on this one.





David

[tautech]

I was going to replace the two 5uF 150V type 40D capacitors, but the 50 year old ones tested better than the new 30D replacements. 

Did you try reforming them ?

The less common values may have been old stock from any supplier and sat in a bin for years where a period of reforming can do much for their performance.

[factory]

Yes I did, they didn't test any different afterwards, the new parts have a datecode from 2022 and were ordered in March 2023. I'm sure they will get used in something else.

David