UNI-T UTG932/UTG962 200MSa/s Function Arbitrary Waveform Generator

[Dd]

I'm using Apple iPad 12W USB power adapter and I guess it's a good enough for the task and it's probably of better quality than wall wart from the Uni-t box.

[Labrat101]

Thanks
I'll quick check it later with the supplied uni-t wall wart, though it didn't come with my regional plug connector plate. Will wack it in a shaver adapter and see how it does.
Maybe that in afew days. Not expecting miracles there, but maybe they did get it specced slightly better than the average one

  Any of the SMPs even the the Laptop type if they don't have an earth .
 Measuring from Neg to mains earth will show some where between 45vac to 90vac. 
We have people coming in and saying that there Laptop has a funny ruff feeling.
The uni-t and others assume that the AWG will be connected directly to your Scope via
RG cable and relying on the scopes Earth . and not making a Ground Loop .
 So one option is to use 1 cable from AWG to a Spare input terminal of scope .
Not always practical depending what the DUT is.
 Or use an earth ground to the Wall Wart . best use a Good earthed power supply 
Edit . Remember these units draw quite a bit of power as well .I didn't measure current
but I guess its around 400ma + which can cause the USB plug to become warm .
 I prefer not to use the USB and connect via better connector .
Edit update the UTG 962 draws 810ma  @ 5v
The top is a snap on with 5 clips . slight pressure to both sides will release .

[JamesLynton]

Ah yup, that coupling curse, I remember laptops fuzzing, it was most unpleasant.

That power supply of theirs has more to it than I might of expected, seems not too terrible on the surface of it.

might as well make the standard supply setup here for the signal generator a battery and linear regulator. will be most curious to see if it can do better than a usb power bank with what I assume to be a boost switching converter in it.

The unit is already pretty close to the noise floor of the scope and other measuring apparatus, so i'm increasingly convinced that theres no merit to replacing the 5V to +/- 12V internal boost converter supply (as discussed elsewhere on here). So far, it seems to be introducing no noise (of the sort worth fussing about) of its own into the system.


Also, for people who really want to work with tiny signals in the millivolt (or less) amplitude range, might as well build an ultra low noise 'amplifier' to wack on the output that attenuates the full scale output into the used range. So far, cant see why anyone would need a cleaner signal than this thing produces, in most applications (higher frequencies being the only other metric you might want more of.. sometimes)

[Labrat101]

Just wondered . I assume you checked what your scope was reading without a connection.
As there is a natural floor noise . etc .  I guess you did . and minus the difference
 My scope has about 650uv of static floor.  (scopes voltages are not always that accurate on volts).

setting @ 1mv
TB @ 2ns
when adding the 962 set to DC volts setting @ 0v (scope)
DC volts setting @ 10v  1.312mv (scope)
scope read 0v  107uv  AC coupling . (edit typo)
scope Ac 800uv vRMS  peek det. minus floor 267uv = 533uv Vrms
also tried on my bench meter set for AC/DC  showed 0.008 v  on 0v & 10v (962 setting)
The bench meter has Isolated inputs  RG connector so it would not act as a ground for the 962
The test was done with the supplied UNI-T Power SMPS unit . No added grounding.
I reckon that's not bad there is some noise but on my HP CRT it was showing interference
RF from some where .
When a ground was added did remove some of the stray RF etc .

There are too many unknowns as everyone lives in different locations different mains layouts .
Lighting , wife's hair drier ,wifi and so on etc . Police tx are the worst ,

My home lab has good sockets connection and I tested the connections etc.
Led lighting is also noisy .
 For a cheap setup I don't think much improvement is required .
Faraday Cage .. Last resort if I get paranoid 

[JamesLynton]

On the scope unplugged stats, pulled this from the post; measurements taken at 1mv/20ms.
I use the wider sampling window to give somewhat stable samples, and permit the fact that noise with adcs & opamps tends to rise with the lower frequencies sampled. (but should use even larger/number averaging, etc for definitive analysis). Extremely narrow time windows can end up discounting/riding those elements.



Scope Channel - Unplugged.
        - (200MHz BW) 0.12mV RMS - 0.80mV Pk2Pk     
        - (20MHz BW)  0.10mV RMS - 0.40mV Pk2Pk

Which makes then numbers in microvolts:
        - (200MHz BW) 120uV RMS - 800uV Pk2Pk     
        - (20MHz BW)  100uV RMS - 400uV Pk2Pk

if the window is narrowed to 2ns and single shot is clicked a few times for a middle of the row sample number, then:
        - (200MHz BW) 409uV RMS - 240uV Pk2Pk     
        - (20MHz BW)  160uV RMS - 140uV Pk2Pk
...and well, those numbers seem to end up somewhat evidently arse backwards for my liking; hence a rather narrow sample window for noise (averaging) tests is maybe not the best idea.

[mnementh]

Pulled the trigger on a UTG 962 from bang-em-good; was able to burn a few affiliate points and saved a few dollars. Might be here before X-mas; we'll see how it fares then.

mnem
 

[jbaribeault]

I got mine and it works a treat - very happy.

But I can't for the life of me get the USB interface drivers working in Windows. My end goal is to use it for BodeII mode from my Siglent (based on another thread here) and I'm willing to write up the "driver" but I can't even get it working in windows with the provided software to sniff the commands out.

Windows visa shows:
ERROR - 107380715: blength field is incorrect for USB_ENDPOINT_DESCRIPTOR type for both endpoints.
Looking at the INF included in the software, there is no matching ID - there is a 5656:0834 but that is for a different UNI-T part that I can see.
Though sometimes it is "null value for Serial Number" and "Unexpected bDescriptorType - expected USB_STRING_DESCRIPTOR"

So I forced an install of the libusb-win32 driver right from the net since I've used this driver for other stuff before (unsigned, test-mode thanks Win10!) and it recognizes as a libusb-win32 device in device manager, but the software (included DeviceManager or NI-MAX) can't see it as something to talk to.

I saw above in the POSTS something about USB3 being an issue - every port on this machine is USB3 so I tried through a USB2 hub - no change. If I need to dust off some older laptop with USB2 that's fine....I just want to make sure I'm barking up the right tree as right now it seems more of a hardware issue...

I decided I would try with my pi4 and py-visa. The linux package seems to see the device and I can get it to respond to an '*IDN?' query - but that's it.
(visa) list
( 0) ASRL/dev/ttyAMA0::INSTR
( 1) USB0::26198::2100::2294216613::0::INSTR
(visa) open 1
USB0::26198::2100::2294216613::0::INSTR has been opened.
You can talk to the device using "write", "read" or "query".
The default end of message is added to each message.
(open) query *idn?
Response: UNI-T Technologies,UTG900E,2294216613,1.08

Can't find any documentation about the command protocols on this. I was hoping to reverse engineer it from windows, but can't get windows to see it. Argh!

Does everyone have the same lsusb -v -d 6656:0834 output? I'd like to know if I have a hardware issue since I tried the above on 2 windows computers and in the lsusb notice the failure to get the qualifier and debug descriptors.

Bus 001 Device 003: ID 6656:0834
Device Descriptor:
  bLength                18
  bDescriptorType         1
  bcdUSB               2.00
  bDeviceClass            0
  bDeviceSubClass         0
  bDeviceProtocol         0
  bMaxPacketSize0        64
  idVendor           0x6656
  idProduct          0x0834
  bcdDevice            1.00
  iManufacturer           1 uni-trend
  iProduct                2 UTG900E
  iSerial                 3 2294216613
  bNumConfigurations      1
  Configuration Descriptor:
    bLength                 9
    bDescriptorType         2
    wTotalLength       0x0020
    bNumInterfaces          1
    bConfigurationValue     1
    iConfiguration          4 UTG900E
    bmAttributes         0xc0
      Self Powered
    MaxPower                2mA
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        0
      bAlternateSetting       0
      bNumEndpoints           2
      bInterfaceClass       254 Application Specific Interface
      bInterfaceSubClass      3 Test and Measurement
      bInterfaceProtocol      1 TMC
      iInterface              5 UTG900E
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x01  EP 1 OUT
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0040  1x 64 bytes
        bInterval               0
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x81  EP 1 IN
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0040  1x 64 bytes
        bInterval               0
can't get device qualifier: Resource temporarily unavailable
can't get debug descriptor: Resource temporarily unavailable
Device Status:     0x0002
  (Bus Powered)
  Remote Wakeup Enabled

Anyways - any help/hints would be appreciated; this is a nice little unit and pretty accurate to boot.

[Labrat101]

Hi I dont use windows very much but I have a windows 10 laptop that I installed the software
and it works ok . You have to install VISA driver that comes with it . it was in a different folder .
But I hate windows with vengeance .
I use Mint 20 . I am not good with software or programming stuff .
I use it only a few times and it was sort of a weird setup . I manly use my 962 as is .
Maybe its the Vista that did not install correctly as that has all the drivers etc .
 

[Mechatrommer]

stefa provided the link to the windows driver here.. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/uni-t-utg932utg962-200msas-function-arbitrary-waveform-generator-220394/msg3101771/#msg3101771 in there, there is also some manual on pc software control maybe you can start sniffing from there. it will be good if we can develop pc software to control its frequency output.

[jbaribeault]

Yeah I can't get the windows drivers from either package to work for love or money. 

I think there may be an issue with the USB controller on mine, as it keeps changing which descriptors are readable vs not when plugged in - no matter what cable I use. Happens on the pi too - sometimes I can't read certain descriptors....

Since it came from Banggood the chances of me providing sufficient video evidence for them to do an RMA are slim to none.

[Labrat101]

Yeah I can't get the windows drivers from either package to work for love or money. 

I think there may be an issue with the USB controller on mine, as it keeps changing which descriptors are readable vs not when plugged in - no matter what cable I use. Happens on the pi too - sometimes I can't read certain descriptors....

Since it came from Banggood the chances of me providing sufficient video evidence for them to do an RMA are slim to none.

Hi if its any help I will load the program that I used on my windows 10 laptop to Google drive
and I will PM you the link .. give me some time .
The other link was deleted . My software did work . it used the VISA-NI  .
Its worth a try you may have non full set up .  Also did you try the USB on the back of the PC.
 I know it does don't work on my USB3 but the USB2 worked 
 update:: I sent you the  link,   It works fine on my windows 10.
 UTG900.rar
 

[mnementh]

Yeah I can't get the windows drivers from either package to work for love or money. 

I think there may be an issue with the USB controller on mine, as it keeps changing which descriptors are readable vs not when plugged in - no matter what cable I use. Happens on the pi too - sometimes I can't read certain descriptors....

Since it came from Banggood the chances of me providing sufficient video evidence for them to do an RMA are slim to none.

You probably have a non-compatible USB-serial driver installed already, and Windoze keeps trying to use that one instead. If you use Zadig, you can manually specify which driver that particular instance of the USB-serial converter uses, and assign a specific virtual com port so it always has the same com port.

mnem
 

[Dakkahun]

Hello.

My UTG962 arrives tomorrow, also from Banggood.
I'm also interested in using it for Bode II with a SDS1104X-E.

I'll check the lsusb output first thing and post the results.

Cheers!

[Labrat101]

Yeah I can't get the windows drivers from either package to work for love or money. 

I think there may be an issue with the USB controller on mine, as it keeps changing which descriptors are readable vs not when plugged in - no matter what cable I use. Happens on the pi too - sometimes I can't read certain descriptors....

Since it came from Banggood the chances of me providing sufficient video evidence for them to do an RMA are slim to none.

You probably have a non-compatible USB-serial driver installed already, and Windoze keeps trying to use that one instead. If you use Zadig, you can manually specify which driver that particular instance of the USB-serial converter uses, and assign a specific virtual com port so it always has the same com port.

mnem
 

I was wondering if that  Zadig  would work under Linux Q4wine
 as wine does not see all the USB .
Has anyone tried ?

[jbaribeault]

I'll give Zadig a whirl....I even tried with Visa 20 tools and the whole bloatware mess of NI and no dice....but then the descriptors keep not being available - VERY flaky on USB3.....In the end I really don't care about working it from windows, as long as I can use PY-VISA or the like to control it from my PI or an ESP32 - I'll take it. I wanted the windows part to work so that I could sniff out the commands since UNI-Trends doesn't publish a command guide and hasn't been AT ALL responsive to questions

[Dakkahun]

As promised, the output for lsusb -v on my unit:

# lsusb -v -d 6656:0834

Bus 001 Device 006: ID 6656:0834
Device Descriptor:
  bLength                18
  bDescriptorType         1
  bcdUSB               2.00
  bDeviceClass            0
  bDeviceSubClass         0
  bDeviceProtocol         0
  bMaxPacketSize0        64
  idVendor           0x6656
  idProduct          0x0834
  bcdDevice            1.00
  iManufacturer           1 uni-trend
  iProduct                2 UTG900E
  iSerial                 3 895783604
  bNumConfigurations      1
  Configuration Descriptor:
    bLength                 9
    bDescriptorType         2
    wTotalLength       0x0020
    bNumInterfaces          1
    bConfigurationValue     1
    iConfiguration          4 UTG900E
    bmAttributes         0xc0
      Self Powered
    MaxPower                2mA
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        0
      bAlternateSetting       0
      bNumEndpoints           2
      bInterfaceClass       254 Application Specific Interface
      bInterfaceSubClass      3 Test and Measurement
      bInterfaceProtocol      1 TMC
      iInterface              5 UTG900E
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x01  EP 1 OUT
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0040  1x 64 bytes
        bInterval               0
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x81  EP 1 IN
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0040  1x 64 bytes
        bInterval               0
can't get device qualifier: Resource temporarily unavailable
can't get debug descriptor: Resource temporarily unavailable
Device Status:     0x0002
  (Bus Powered)
  Remote Wakeup Enabled


The only difference I see is the serial number.

After the day job is done I'l give it a shot with Windows 10 and VISA-NI

Regards.

[jbaribeault]

Thanks! It looks like you get the same result from Linux as I do - which is great. At least it means there is no actual hardware problem
As I said earlier, with py-visa on the pi I can get an answer to '?IDN*' and it responds fine; I just don't know any other commands for this one.
I tried on another Win10 laptop yesterday but it has the same USB3.1 chipset as my desktop and I get the same random USB wackiness with it.

[Dakkahun]

Preliminary testing on Win10 desktop, using USB3.0 provided by Intel z97 chipset controller, looks ok.

At first, it did not recognize the device, then, after I installed the Visa-NI 5.4 runtime downloaded directly from ni.com, it changed to "USB Test and Measurement Device (IVI)".
Then installed the UNI-T Devices Manger, and I'm able to control the device from the virtual panel and upload waveforms.

I also attempted to connect with python:

Code: [Select]

import pyvisa as visa
def main():
 _rm = visa.ResourceManager()
 print (_rm.list_resources())
 utg = _rm.open_resource("USB0::0x6656::0x0834::895783604::INSTR")
 print(utg.query("*IDN?"))
if __name__=='__main__':
 main()

result

('USB0::0x6656::0x0834::895783604::INSTR',)
UNI-T Technologies,UTG900E,895783604,1.08

I guess the next step would be to try to sniff their application and start to figure it out.

Regards.

[Labrat101]

Thanks! It looks like you get the same result from Linux as I do - which is great. At least it means there is no actual hardware problem
As I said earlier, with py-visa on the pi I can get an answer to '?IDN*' and it responds fine; I just don't know any other commands for this one.
I tried on another Win10 laptop yesterday but it has the same USB3.1 chipset as my desktop and I get the same random USB wackiness with it.

Hi It only seems to work on usb2 .you can change the usb in the Bios setting . so it is downward compatible.
 my windows laptop also has two USB3 and one USB2 set as generic .
try you can always set it back again .
There USB cable supplied with UTG is USB2  and USB2  is a 4 wire system & USB3 uses 5 wires .
Some PC's have dual USB with both 2 & 3 connectors . The Blue USB's sockets are not all backward compatible .
If you already knew this  . just ignore the above 

I also got silly errors on some of the USB3 sockets

[Dakkahun]

It seems to work on my system with USB 3.0.
Progress is being made, some commands to try:

System:LOCK ON
System:LOCK OFF
KEY:Mode
KEY:Wave
KEY:Utility
KEY:F1
KEY:F3
KEY:F5
KEY:CH1
KEY:Symbol
KEY:DOT
KEY:NUM1
KEY:NUM9
KEY:Up
KEY:Down
KEY:Right
KEY:Left
Display:Data?  -  this returns two packets sized 8192 and 383552 bytes - the screen refresh

So it looks like all commands used by them are practically key presses. So if this is all they implemented, we would need to emulate the control commands using button presses.

Code: [Select]

import pyvisa as visa
def main():
 _rm = visa.ResourceManager()
 utg = _rm.open_resource("USB0::0x6656::0x0834::895783604::INSTR")
 print(utg.write("System:LOCK ON"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:Wave"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:F2"))
 print(utg.write("System:LOCK OFF"))
if __name__=='__main__':
 main()

I've attached the wireshark usb capture I've made.

Any thoughts?

[Labrat101]

As promised, the output for lsusb -v on my unit:

# lsusb -v -d 6656:0834

Bus 001 Device 006: ID 6656:0834
Device Descriptor:
  bLength                18
  bDescriptorType         1
  bcdUSB               2.00
  bDeviceClass            0
  bDeviceSubClass         0
  bDeviceProtocol         0
  bMaxPacketSize0        64
  idVendor           0x6656
  idProduct          0x0834
  bcdDevice            1.00
  iManufacturer           1 uni-trend
  iProduct                2 UTG900E
  iSerial                 3 895783604
  bNumConfigurations      1
  Configuration Descriptor:
    bLength                 9
    bDescriptorType         2
    wTotalLength       0x0020
    bNumInterfaces          1
    bConfigurationValue     1
    iConfiguration          4 UTG900E
    bmAttributes         0xc0
      Self Powered
    MaxPower                2mA
    Interface Descriptor:
      bLength                 9
      bDescriptorType         4
      bInterfaceNumber        0
      bAlternateSetting       0
      bNumEndpoints           2
      bInterfaceClass       254 Application Specific Interface
      bInterfaceSubClass      3 Test and Measurement
      bInterfaceProtocol      1 TMC
      iInterface              5 UTG900E
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x01  EP 1 OUT
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0040  1x 64 bytes
        bInterval               0
      Endpoint Descriptor:
        bLength                 7
        bDescriptorType         5
        bEndpointAddress     0x81  EP 1 IN
        bmAttributes            2
          Transfer Type            Bulk
          Synch Type               None
          Usage Type               Data
        wMaxPacketSize     0x0040  1x 64 bytes
        bInterval               0
can't get device qualifier: Resource temporarily unavailable
can't get debug descriptor: Resource temporarily unavailable
Device Status:     0x0002
  (Bus Powered)
  Remote Wakeup Enabled


The only difference I see is the serial number.

After the day job is done I'l give it a shot with Windows 10 and VISA-NI

Regards.

Hi Can I ask a silly question can this be also done on Linux
cause I would like to get my UTG working in Mint 20 .
an I have no idea how these program works . I am only good with Hardware .
I tried to install Visa-NI under mint and failed terribly .
 IF so please could explain for a dummy programmer   

thanks

[jbaribeault]

Wow! Thanks that's exactly what I was hoping to accomplish....disappointed at the results though because doing control via keypresses isn't going to be fun - doable, but not fun. Really depends on the minimal time between commands we can send I guess.

[jbaribeault]

Confirmed what works through py-visa under my pi Key commands work as expected.
"soft" keys on the bottom are F1-F6 - Number pad as NUM0-NUM9 other keys are as marked.

I'll try and work on the BodeII "driver" for the Siglent as a holiday project; hopefully I find it can take the commands fast enough to be of use. Doesn't bode[sic] well though since it can't seem to take more than 1 command on the line at a time...so there will likely be delay.

Here's a sample from pyvisa-shell (no exciting output - just know the UTG changed state as expected )

Welcome to the VISA shell. Type help or ? to list commands.

(visa) list
( 0) ASRL/dev/ttyAMA0::INSTR
( 1) USB0::26198::2100::2294216613::0::INSTR
(visa) open 1
USB0::26198::2100::2294216613::0::INSTR has been opened.
You can talk to the device using "write", "read" or "query".
The default end of message is added to each message.
(open) query *IDN?
Response: UNI-T Technologies,UTG900E,2294216613,1.08
(open) query Display:Data?
'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xfa in position 4: ordinal not in range(128)
(open) write KEY:CH1
(open) write KEY:CH1
(open) write KEY:F1
....

[Dakkahun]

@jbaribeault

I've tested, this sample program which inputs two different frequencies takes about 0.85s for each value on Win10 and 0.8s on my Pi3. We'll need to find out if it is enough, since I saw that in 4x1md's youtube demo video, the frequency sweep is slow at low frequencies, and accelerates as you go up on the logarithmic scale.

visa_test.py

Code: [Select]

import pyvisa as visa
import time
def main():
 _rm = visa.ResourceManager()
# print (_rm.list_resources())
 utg = _rm.open_resource("USB0::0x6656::0x0834::895783604::INSTR")
# print(utg.query("*IDN?"))
 
 print(utg.write("System:LOCK ON"))
 #print(utg.write("KEY:CH1"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:CH1"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:Wave"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:F1"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:F1"))
 begin = time.time()
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM1"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM0"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:DOT"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM0"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM0"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM0"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM0"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM0"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM0"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:F3"))
 #time.sleep(5)
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM1"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM5"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:DOT"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM8"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM4"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM8"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM9"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM3"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:NUM2"))
 print(utg.write("KEY:F3"))
 end = time.time()
 #time.sleep(5)
 print(utg.write("KEY:CH1"))
 print(utg.write("System:LOCK OFF"))
 
 print(f"Total runtime of the program is {end - begin}")
if __name__=='__main__':
 main()
@Labrat101

From what I can find, NI does not offer a package for NI-VISA for Debian derivatives, as you can see here: https://www.ni.com/pdf/manuals/378353a.html#install
On Linux we're using the python3 PyVISA and pyvisa-py libraries.
I installed them on my Raspbian/RPI3 with pip3:

pip3 install pyvisa
pip3 install pyusb
pip3 install pyvisa-py

and then running the code with:

python3 visa_test.py

[jbaribeault]

Excellent - thanks for that! Works for me too - and the timings look the same timing-wise. I've raised the question in the BodeII plot thread about how tight the waveform changes happen to see if this will be possible at all with this rather slow set method. Kind of disappointing that they only implemented the button pushes Still it's better than nothing.