You've got the basics covered.
I can recommend comparing the Micsig TO1104 to the DS1054Z. They're similar in responsiveness, apples and oranges in control scheme, but the Micsig does have the advantage of a larger screen and optional battery power. Micsig cheaped out on the included probes though, they're not X1/X10 switchable...
As for the Korad, I've used it briefly and find it to be workable, but I've ultimately moved on to much better power supplies. In my opinion, it's not worth it to put your project on the line with a cheaper power supply. My current main supply is a Siglent SPD-3303D which happens to be significantly more quiet any of the HP / Agilent power supplies I've owned.
Finally, I have nothing but good things to say about Quick and their line of hot air stations. My 957D has served me well, and I have no doubts the 861DW will be a great unit as well. If you think you'll be doing a lot of soldering, I would recommend looking into buying or building a fume extraction solution. We've been having a discussion about fume extractors in the Other Equipment forum recently.
IMHO when it comes to hot air you can't go wrong with the Atten 858D+ (or newer model). I don't see how spending more will get a significant advantage but then again I have not used a more expensive hot air station. A magnifier lamp is also nice to have although I wish I have space for a Mantis.
Maybe a cheap USB logic analyser can be a good investment as well. The same goes for a simple LCR meter.
Anyway, often I buy equipment when I need it for a project.
I've looked long and hard at the Siglent SDS1202X-E, because of its higher bandwidth, better FFT and more snappy interface, but I think the bigger memory and extra channels of the DS1054Z win out. Four channels will help looking at digital signals and working on brushless motors. I've also looked at more expensive models, but I don't see too much reason to upgrade. Any significant performance gain coincides with a huge price hike.
Don't know how much of a hurry you're in, but if not you could consider waiting for these:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/
I've had a 100 MHz model for a few days to test, yes there's some bugs in it that need to be be fixed before release.
I'd can't disclose any more other than to say it will give the marketplace a good shakeup is this bracket of DSO.
Don't know how much of a hurry you're in, but if not you could consider waiting for these:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/
I've had a 100 MHz model for a few days to test, yes there's some bugs in it that need to be be fixed before release.
I'd can't disclose any more other than to say it will give the marketplace a good shakeup is this bracket of DSO.Oh, bother. It looks like I'll have to wait for that one. Do you know when it is expected to be available in Western markets? I don't mind being somewhat patient, but considering I was about to pull the trigger and it is the most needed item on the list, there are limits.
I can't quite deduce how the memory is compared to the DS1054Z.
IMHO when it comes to hot air you can't go wrong with the Atten 858D+ (or newer model). I don't see how spending more will get a significant advantage but then again I have not used a more expensive hot air station. A magnifier lamp is also nice to have although I wish I have space for a Mantis.
Maybe a cheap USB logic analyser can be a good investment as well. The same goes for a simple LCR meter.
Anyway, often I buy equipment when I need it for a project.The Atten seems to be a popular budget choice, but that reminds me of the Aoyue 936.
1. Rigol DS1054Z - You can hardly go wrong with this one.
Don't know how much of a hurry you're in, but if not you could consider waiting for these:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/
Also: Next year's car will be better than this year's! Maybe nobody should ever buy a car, just in case...
We also know that Rigol is working on a completely new custom chipset for their oscilloscopes.
We also know that Rigol is working on a completely new custom chipset for their oscilloscopes.
I thought that was for higher-end scopes...
We also know that Rigol is working on a completely new custom chipset for their oscilloscopes.
I thought that was for higher-end scopes...
Don't know how much of a hurry you're in, but if not you could consider waiting for these:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/We also know that Rigol is working on a completely new custom chipset for their oscilloscopes.
No dates yet, sorry.
Two x 1 GSa/s ADC's, each has 14 Mpts available so with 4 channels On, 500 MSa/s and 7 Mpts for each channel.
Just don't like the sailor who wishes for a better boat. Until you get it wet you'll still just be a boat owner.
No dates yet, sorry.
Two x 1 GSa/s ADC's, each has 14 Mpts available so with 4 channels On, 500 MSa/s and 7 Mpts for each channel.I understand you can't give us any dates, but might you be able to indicate a month or even a quarter? Failing all those, based on your previous experience with domestic releases and the subsequent release on western markets, what would you say is a reasonable time to be expected between the two?
This should get me along my way for now. Next up would be a decent function generator, but for now I've bought a very cheap FG-100 that'll fill the gap until then. What do you guys think and have I missed any obvious options?
For DMM's, you'll want more than one for simultaneous measurements and they don't have to be expensive units either. For example, you can get a Uni-T UT139C for ~$34 shipped. Plenty of other options as well, but not knowing what you'd be working on, I mention the UT139C as it has decent protections in it (CAT III 600V).
I own a Quick 861DW hot air station, and it's very good IME. The unit itself has sufficient power, and the UI is intuitive to use. The 3 presets are very nice too (i.e. use a timer/stopwatch, and you can use them to make a crude reflow profile; otherwise you can have a setting for heat shrink, leaded, and lead-free soldering/desoldering). You'll be able to do most anything with the 3 round ones they include with the station, so you don't have to go and buy a bunch of extra nozzles either. Just add specialty nozzles if/when needed.
I found making or buying shields to keep from heating nearby parts to be more useful instead (JBC makes them, but they're not exactly cheap; examples). DIY'ing them out of thin sheet metal and riveting them together will do the job as well. Even something like an aluminum soda can will suffice.
As per PSU's, I'd recommend you consider quality used linear units from eBay, particularly if you live in the US/CAN (you get greater value from multi-channel output models). Better quality for pennies on the dollar this way.
Here's a few examples:By going with SMD parts, you'll want some means of magnification; whether it be a simple Opti-Visor or a reasonably priced stereo microscope. Or trinocular if you want to do still photos or video without having to remove one of the eyepieces to fit an adapter suitable for your camera. I'm partial to zoom types rather than those that use fixed magnification, but the latter is a bit less expensive. BTW, you'll want ~ 4x - 10x for most work, and ~ 20x for inspection.
- GW Instek GPC-3020 (CC & CV modes for ~$60 shipped)
- Tektronix CPS250
- Systron Donner TL8-3
You can get them with different stands, such as the double boom stand which improves stability. And if you're after a trinocular type, there's a version that has simultaneous focusing between eyepieces & camera so you can take images/video while working; no loss of an eyepiece (Amscope calls it Simul-focal).
- Fixed Binocular (10x & 20x eyepieces)
- Zoom Binocular
- Zoom Trinocular
I would pick up a Rigol 1054Z and start having fun and getting some work done now, forget waiting for vaporware. The great thing about the 1054Z being so ubiquitous is that used prices are strong, you could sell in a years time if you outgrow it or something better comes along.
I'm a believer in good tools and some of my gear far exceeds my requirements and even my abilities but it is a lot of fun to use.
I would pick up a Rigol 1054Z and start having fun and getting some work done now, forget waiting for vaporware. The great thing about the 1054Z being so ubiquitous is that used prices are strong, you could sell in a years time if you outgrow it or something better comes along.
I'm a believer in good tools and some of my gear far exceeds my requirements and even my abilities but it is a lot of fun to use.I'm not sure I would qualify it as vapourware due to it apparently being available and released in some parts of the world. However, after going back and forth for a while I do think I agree with you. Waiting for a model that may or may not show in the next 6 months, that may or may not have the features I expect and require, which may or may not be receiving favourable reviews from the community, which may or may not have serious issues that need even more time to be fixed and may or may not be considerably more expensive, due to its two channel brother being as expensive as the DS1054Z doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. I can't sit still for 6 months or more based on a vague promise and the DS1054Z will still be a very decent tool after the competition surpasses it.
At worst, I could always sell it and spend some more money on the upgrade, but knowing my buying habits, that doesn't seem too likely.
What's still missing is a decent logging multimeter, which might be a Brymen or just maybe Dave's new meter. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.
I've yet to hear a negative comment about the Quick station, so that seems to be a done deal. Louis Rossmann said he would do a review of the thing this week, so that might be interesting.
The power supplies are another story. ...[snip]...I am still going back and forth on getting two separate Korad units, one dual channel unit or a Rigol, but the dual channel Korad seem to make the most sense. It never hurts to have more options, so upgrading to something more decent later while keeping the Korad around for the more "hold my beer" kind of experiments is viable. I will be sure to keep checking the various channels until I actually make a purchase. Something might pop up.
Magnification is something I've been looking at, but I think I will see how that pans out in practice. I will find out quickly enough whether I desperately need to invest in optical equipment. Getting one of those cheap but half-decent USB microscopes might be a workable in-between until then. If I do spend money, I'd rather do it right the first time and unfortunately, that does not represent a trivial amount of money.
Ignore the possibility of other equipment - for now. Use the equipment to do something, anything that interests you.
When you can't do X, first use imagination (and skill) to try to find a different way to achieve X without buying anything. If you can't, then you will be able to write a specification for what you need to buy.
Don't forget that everything has a learning curve; too much stuff => too long learning!
Having said that, you don't mention soldering and vision equipment. For the latter, a cheap way of finding what you do/don't need is the ~£20 head-mounted visors with changeable lenses. Don't forget good adjustable lighting; I find bench-mounted LEDs on a long gooseneck are very useful.
As far as I can tell, an oscilloscope and signal generator within the same brand tend to be a more streamlined experience.
Recording and replaying a signal is something I have uses for right now. Generating damaged or modified signals through a script and playing them on data lines is another application I can already see being useful.
Apart from having the same case colour and (possibly) having similar external dimensions, I can't think of what you might mean by that.
In that case, for analogue signals you need an AWG, and for digital signals a pattern generator. Make sure the number of samples and frequency / baud rate are sufficient for your signals.
Apart from having the same case colour and (possibly) having similar external dimensions, I can't think of what you might mean by that.
In that case, for analogue signals you need an AWG, and for digital signals a pattern generator. Make sure the number of samples and frequency / baud rate are sufficient for your signals.According to Tautech, the protocol to send a captured signal to an AWG is not standardized and therefore a match is required. Obviously, you can export a waveform to a file and import that on the AWG, but the option being as streamlined as possible is worth something.
As far as I can tell, an oscilloscope and signal generator within the same brand tend to be a more streamlined experience.
Apart from having the same case colour and (possibly) having similar external dimensions, I can't think of what you might mean by that.QuoteRecording and replaying a signal is something I have uses for right now. Generating damaged or modified signals through a script and playing them on data lines is another application I can already see being useful.
In that case, for analogue signals you need an AWG, and for digital signals a pattern generator. Make sure the number of samples and frequency / baud rate are sufficient for your signals.
The divide between analogue and digital isn't that neat. The fun part is distorting and damaging digital signals to see what happens
Apart from having the same case colour and (possibly) having similar external dimensions, I can't think of what you might mean by that.
In that case, for analogue signals you need an AWG, and for digital signals a pattern generator. Make sure the number of samples and frequency / baud rate are sufficient for your signals.According to Tautech, the protocol to send a captured signal to an AWG is not standardized and therefore a match is required. Obviously, you can export a waveform to a file and import that on the AWG, but the option being as streamlined as possible is worth something.
As per PSU's, I'd recommend you consider quality used linear units from eBay, particularly if you live in the US/CAN (you get greater value from multi-channel output models). Better quality for pennies on the dollar this way.
Here's a few examples:
- GW Instek GPC-3020 (CC & CV modes for ~$60 shipped)
Lots of surmising and short on facts.
I have one for testing and it far exceeds capabilities of its lesser two channel brother.
Mentioned/suspected release dates are reasonably accurate....far less than 6 months.
For some inexplicable reason, you've snipped important context, so here it is again...
... but it turns out you weren't interested in signal generators after all, and, as I suggested, AWGs were relevant.
Actually, the divide is strong, unambiguous and very important :analogue signals convey energy from transmitter to receiver, digital signals convey information from transmitter to receiver.
Distorting and damaging digital signals is trivially easy: all you have to do is flip/insert/delete bits.
If you are thinking of "distorting and damaging digital signals", then it is most likely you are intending to change analogue signals that will subsequently be interpreted as digital signals. That can indeed be enlightening, provided the AWG is fast enough and the changes you introduce are representative of those you will find in the wild. Mobile/wireless comms channel models are a classic source of such things.
FWIW, TopLoser has an Agilent U1252B up for 200GBP + shipping (here) if you're willing and able. Even if not, sending him a PM regarding something you're after is worthwhile IMHO, as he sells customer returns that are fully functional and aren't screwed up cosmetically.
Regarding the U1252B, the interfaces aren't expensive and the software is free. Brymen sells the interface for the BM86x series DMM's inexpensively as well (here); TME would likely be the best place to find that at a reasonable price.
I'll have to keep an eye out for that one (don't have a video camera myself, other than my phone, and I suspect using it would be a disaster).
Given you're in the EU, have you tried eBay sellers in say the Netherlands and Germany?
You could start with a magnifying lamp or Opti-Visor (or similar), as they're not terribly expensive.
Regarding a microscope, I figured on a buy-once-cry-once philosophy, so I spent $609 shipped for an Amscope 3.5x - 90x Simul-Focal*, double arm boom stand, fluorescent ring light, and a 5MP camera kit. Everything you need OTB. Not pocket change, but at 1.5x a Rigol DS1054Z, it's not horrible either.
The optics are decent BTW, so I don't see the need to spend more than that. An upgrade or two, such as a 1x Barlow to keep the objectives clean, polarized filter, and better lighting**.
* Includes a 2.0x Barlow to get above 45x, which can always be added later on (10x eyepieces * 0.7x - 4.5x objectives without a Barlow lens installed). I only got that model as it was in stock, and the price difference was negligible (you really only need a 0.5x Barlow).
** LED ring lights are cheap, and ideally a dual arm fiber optic LED unit would be even more desirable (convert a used halogen unit?). The reason is hitting the chip at an angle makes a world of difference reading IC P/N's IME. The inexpensive IKEA goose neck desk lamps would do too, or in a pinch, a flashlight/torch. BTW, turn off the ring light for this.
For some inexplicable reason, you've snipped important context, so here it is again...
... but it turns out you weren't interested in signal generators after all, and, as I suggested, AWGs were relevant.
Actually, the divide is strong, unambiguous and very important :analogue signals convey energy from transmitter to receiver, digital signals convey information from transmitter to receiver.
Distorting and damaging digital signals is trivially easy: all you have to do is flip/insert/delete bits.
If you are thinking of "distorting and damaging digital signals", then it is most likely you are intending to change analogue signals that will subsequently be interpreted as digital signals. That can indeed be enlightening, provided the AWG is fast enough and the changes you introduce are representative of those you will find in the wild. Mobile/wireless comms channel models are a classic source of such things.The superfluous context has been cut, to prevent cluttering the discussion up with endless nesting. Those who might get confused will figure out how to scroll back eventually
I was talking about an upgrade to an AWG all along. Sorry for any confusion.
Again, the divide between analogue and digital signals isn't so obvious. Any digital signal is also an analogue signal and how that analogue signal looks exactly has consequences in the digital world. Slew rate and other forms of distortion that differ from the ideal digital signal may or may not have an impact on performance
Actually it is quite common to be able to export/import CSV files but it may take some editing. For example: I have used data captured on a GW Instek scope on a Siglent signal generator. This wasn't as straightforward as I would have like due to the Siglent generator wanting a specific header in the CSV file but in the end it worked.
There are other simple and less charitable interpretations. It is considered bad form to snip conversations in ways that change the intent and meaning of other people's posts.
No, for the reason given.
You are describing "signal integrity", i.e. an analogue signal that will be received and then interpreted as a digital signal. Exactly what sample rate do you require an AWG to have, in order that it be useful to you for signal integrity experiments?
There are other simple and less charitable interpretations. It is considered bad form to snip conversations in ways that change the intent and meaning of other people's posts.
No, for the reason given.
You are describing "signal integrity", i.e. an analogue signal that will be received and then interpreted as a digital signal. Exactly what sample rate do you require an AWG to have, in order that it be useful to you for signal integrity experiments?I must say that I'm rather confused by the level of distrust and the implied accusations and I don't quite feel I have deserved either.
TopLoser's multimeter ...[U1252B]...has been sold before I could do enough research to see whether it would fit my needs. I must say the 200000 count Brymen BM869s sounds attractive, even though it lacks mobile logging capabilities. However, I do think I have other priorities at the moment. When I really start needing it, I will evaluate the options to find the most suitable match.
Louis has posted his video on the Quick. It's what I would consider a rave review.
Because you changed the context of what was said and why it was said.
Why am I not surprised you didn't take the hint about snipping conversations.
It is disrespectful of readers' time to expect them to trawl back through past postings to try to recover useful context that you have chosen to unnecessarily delete.
PS: if you dislike context, I suggest you head over to stackexchange or edaboard. While they seem great for "which button do I press to do X" type questions, they are very poor when it comes to answering and discussing more subtle and interesting topics.
- I'm also looking to buy a basic set of decent banana leads. Maybe something like silicone Hirschmann leads of a few different lengths.
I have a bunch of these myself. IMHO they are very affordable (if you look around a bit for a cheap supplier) and not worth the hassle of using inferior test leads. Even under high load they work as they should.
I have an Instek GPC-3020 and it gets a lot of use. Still, there are two issues I have with it. Both are fixable, but you should know about them
1. the voltage pots are extremely sensitive, and really it could use multiturn pots there, which I plan to add. Fix, find two compatible multi-turn pots to replace the voltage pots.
2. The second you turn it on a loud fan distracts you from your work and runs like a airliner taxiing to takeoff until you turn the power supply off. Fix, replace the 24volt fan with a quieter one that includes a thermistor so it only runs fast when major cooling is actually needed.
As per PSU's, I'd recommend you consider quality used linear units from eBay, particularly if you live in the US/CAN (you get greater value from multi-channel output models). Better quality for pennies on the dollar this way.
Here's a few examples:
- GW Instek GPC-3020 (CC & CV modes for ~$60 shipped)
[/list]
I don't know why you're so adamant to get a rise out of me. I have not had or displayed any ill intent, nor have I deserved your distrust or accusations. To prevent endless nesting and clutter, I've removed all but the last message in the conversation. I've done this consistently in this thread and throughout the forums and no one has taken offence so far, except for you. If manipulation was the purpose, doing the same thing consistently seems besides the point. It would also seem to be a rather feeble attempt to hide something that's already in plain sight, as the messages are displayed in the very context of the thread they originate from. They are out there for the world to see and I can't change that, nor do I want to.
Even though I hope we can put aside these differences, I fear that my words will not change the way things are. If this is the case, I have to kindly ask you to keep your worries to yourself, start a conversation about the matter elsewhere or, if you're convinced of foul play, ask a member of the moderation crew to look into what transpired. This thread is about a lab upgrade and associated considerations. Comments on this are obviously more than welcome.
CDEV,
I have just picked up one of these GPC-3020's, possibly from the ITT demise as well. Mine is coming out of north Florida. I would like to make the changes you have mentioned as well as locate the manuals you referred to in another thread.
Did you get to doing anything to it ? If you could point me toward those manuals that would be great. I have done a bit of searching but so far what I have come up with is not too good. Thanks
There is usually no benefit to removing the context in which a response was made -- and there are many disadvantages.
There has been no suggestion of "ill intent", as you cannot easily see from what I wrote since I snipped it. That suggestion is a strawman argument.
It is often insufficient to regard the entire thread as "context": threads naturally divide into sub-threads. One extreme example is the "TEA" thread In the absence of a threaded display mechanism, the only way of preserving that useful information is via quoting.
We should start a separate thread on this. Yes, I definitely want to fix the loud fan.
We should start a separate thread on this. Yes, I definitely want to fix the loud fan.What helps a lot are rubber fan mounts. A couple of months ago I got a GW Instek PSP-603 bench power supply and it is nice but the fan resonates to the casing.