View on Philips PM3217 50Mhz analog oscilloscope

[praveen_khm]

Hi,

Came along this Philips oscilloscope and the guy said that he would give this used one for ~$125. Is it worth purchasing this? This is the first time I am planning to get one and need your comments if this should be ok.

Edit: The image is not the actual image, but got it off the internet. The real one should resemble this one.

Thanks,
Praveen

[leppie]

I picked up the 40MHz model (PM3209?) with original probes and manual for $50 locally (in South Africa).

(free) service manuals are difficult to get though for it.

A better bet would be to find a Tek 465 for that price.

[praveen_khm]

I picked up the 40MHz model (PM3209?) with original probes and manual for $50 locally (in South Africa).

I am from India. Though I can get better deals off ebay, the shipping cost is too high. Hence checking out a local repair shop who has a few of them. But not sure if this is worth the money.

[praveen_khm]

Anybody? I am planning to go and get it. Need your views before that...

[Shock]

Try to get it cheaper but it's better than nothing. Just make sure you test it there and check the trace, or if it has problems you can return it.  If they argue the price you can tell them they do brand new $300 digital scopes with free shipping from china on ebay.

[David Hess]

Assuming it works, I would not get it unless I was sure of a source for the service manual.  $125 strikes me as at the high end of reasonable.

[dannyf]

Is it worth purchasing this?

No one can answer that for you. What's worth for me may not be worth for you, vice versa.

I do think at $125, it would not get it.

[David Hess]

I have a pair of Tektronix 2230s which I picked up for about that price each and I would expect to play less for an older 100 MHz Tektronix oscilloscope.  But whether $125 is reasonable is going to significantly depend on the market in your area.

[elliott]

Here is the service manual for it:
http://bee.mif.pg.gda.pl/ciasteczkowypotwor/Philips/pm3217%20pm3217u.pdf

That is more than I would pay, but depending on your local market it could be reasonable.

[GreyWoolfe]

Haggle with him to get it down.  All he can do is say no deal.

[mij59]

If the scope is "as is" it may need some maintenance.
Even if it test good on site,  there's no guaranty it will  stay that way.
Think of bad capacitors, crusty switches, bad solder joints etc .
Whose is going to pay for the maintenance ?

[David Hess]

If the scope is "as is" it may need some maintenance.
Even if it test good on site,  there's no guaranty it will  stay that way.
Think of bad capacitors, crusty switches, bad solder joints etc .
Whose is going to pay for the maintenance ?

Even worse if you do the maintenance yourself, you may need a second oscilloscope to troubleshoot the problems in the first oscilloscope.

[HighVoltage]

I had lots of Philips scopes over the years and always have been happy with them.
Usually they last a long long time, before they fail.
You can even find the later Combiscope models on ebay for a reasonable price.

[mzacharias]

Generally much more reliable than a 465, but the controls get extremely scratchy and are very difficult to access for cleaning. Front panel controls are less intuitive, and they use the same nomenclature for the two time bases as for the two vertical channels. In my case it sometimes confuses simply because it is not my number one scope, and Tek for example refers to input channels 1 and 2, not input channels A and B like the Philips.

If it's your only scope or even your daily use one, this would quickly become a non-issue.

[David Hess]

In my case it sometimes confuses simply because it is not my number one scope, and Tek for example refers to input channels 1 and 2, not input channels A and B like the Philips.

I have noticed before that Tektronix made a habit of consistently referring to vertical channels starting with 1 and timebases starting with A.  They also often or always used X, Y, and Z for vector inputs which was convenient because the X input may or may not use one of the vertical inputs.  I assume they took human factors engineering seriously.

[praveen_khm]

Thanks for all the responses friends. I tried to get him down to $100, but he did not accept it. Gave up and looking for a better one if I get. Since I do not have a scope with me, that is kind of stopping me from few things and was eager to buy it.

[stephunk]

Hi to all at first.
I´ve got this scope few years, in time when we were using slovak crowns(maybe year 2007-2008) i paid for this beautiful piece 5500skk. What is approximately 182€. At that time I just only heard about some "ebay and so.." I like it much, because i love the design used. Week ago i bought PM5127 generator, which is now a new friend to my scope.
Few months ago the scope started to kidding me. After the "machine" heat up a bit, the trace becomes slightly moving up and down, later it chaotically jumps over and behind the screen. It doestn´t depend on what channel is displayed, or timebase range selected or if the "zero" is or is not depressed. Just after warming up, it simply becomes unreadable. I dismounted it few times and try to locate the error, but with no success. I love thermal dependent, coldjoint associated faults.. Now working on Y-final amp and i am very curious, where and WHEN i´ll locate the fault. It would be useful to use little heatsink on output pair 2N3866 but there is very little space around..cross your fingers sirs!

[oldway]

I think it is a good scope but this model often have problems with isolation failure of high voltage transformer winding.
If this happens, it is unfortunately not repairable because it is impossible to find a spare transformer.
Something to notice: this scope can be powered with 22V/27V external battery.
In India, you should look after an used SM605 60Mhz analog scope from Scientific.
http://suppliers.jimtrade.com/83/82099/60_mhz_universal_analog_oscilloscope.htm
This is a very good analog scope, the same as the HM605 HAMEG.
http://www.scientificindia.com/

[coppice]

I think it is a good scope but this model often have problems with isolation failure of high voltage transformer winding.
If this happens, it is unfortunately not repairable because it is impossible to find a spare transformer.
Something to notice: this scope can be powered with 22V/27V external battery.
In India, you should look after an used SM605 60Mhz analog scope from Scientific.
http://suppliers.jimtrade.com/83/82099/60_mhz_universal_analog_oscilloscope.htm
This is a very good analog scope, the same as the HM605 HAMEG.
http://www.scientificindia.com/

We used to use quite a lot of the 100MHz version of that Philips scope, and I never saw one go for repair. They are really nice scopes, in a different class from those nasty Hamegs.

[stephunk]

Dear oldway, fortunately the isolation problem is not my case. Buut, the fight is over One of two BFQ24 which are driving the end transistor has "thermal/pseudo random" failure.
When measured h21e, the multimeter showed 45. By heating it with hairdryer this number stays ok. When connected to an old Tesla BM529, i read very similar value. Switched to Ic 10mA, still ok. When decided to unconnect the leads, the value started to runaway. So i stayed watching further. There is randomly occured CE breakdown, starting around 9V. Unfortunately BFQ24 is nowhere on stock, just the Littlediode(UK) has it, for a bit higher price. Replaced with 2N3906 with no compensation is doing job well! Sure, on frequency below 1MHz. How it looks like higher only god knows, because i have nothing faster, than 35ns risetime pulse generator. Best wishes to all here!

[oldway]

I think it is a good scope but this model often have problems with isolation failure of high voltage transformer winding.
If this happens, it is unfortunately not repairable because it is impossible to find a spare transformer.
Something to notice: this scope can be powered with 22V/27V external battery.
In India, you should look after an used SM605 60Mhz analog scope from Scientific.
http://suppliers.jimtrade.com/83/82099/60_mhz_universal_analog_oscilloscope.htm
This is a very good analog scope, the same as the HM605 HAMEG.
http://www.scientificindia.com/

We used to use quite a lot of the 100MHz version of that Philips scope, and I never saw one go for repair. They are really nice scopes, in a different class from those nasty Hamegs.

Never heard of a 100MHz version of this scope !
With the same power supply than the PM3217, there are:
- PM3212  - 25MHz
- PM3214  - 25MHz
- PM3215 - 50MHz
- PM3216 - 35MHz
- PM3218 - 35MHz
- PM3219  -50MHz storage.
They all have often the same failure of the HV coil of the switched mode power supply.
Other Philips scopes with recurrent problems (bad contacts on Y input selectors. Others models use reed switches and have no problem of bad contacts):
PM3260 (not 100% sure of it)
PM3261 (not 100% sure of it)
PM3262
PM3263
PM3264 (it's a four channels scope) It has a lot of others problems: HV multiplier leakage, strong oscillations of the final Y amplifier...)

"Nasty hameg's" ? 
I worked during many years with HP1740A, HAMEG HM605, PHILIPS 100MHZ STORAGE.
I like better the Hameg scopes than the Philips.
The component tester is very handy for troubleshooting.

I have at home:
Hameg's:
- 04 x HM605
- 01 x HM1005
- 01 x HM1505
Tektronix
- 01 x 2235A
- 01 x 2236
Philips
- 01 x PM3233
- 01 x PM3094
HP
- 01 x HP1740A
- 01 x HP1725A
And not working, for spares
01 x HP1740A
01 x HP1715A
I was repairing analog scopes as hobby.

[coppice]

Never heard of a 100MHz version of this scope !
With the same power supply than the PM3217, there are:
- PM3212  - 25MHz
- PM3214  - 25MHz
- PM3215 - 50MHz
- PM3216 - 35MHz
- PM3218 - 35MHz
- PM3219  -50MHz storage.
They all have often the same failure of the HV coil of the switched mode power supply.

I can't remember the model number of the 100MHz Philips scope we used, but it looks exactly like the PM3217. If you are India I wonder if the climate is a factor in the high failure rates you see, especially if you are in Delhi or Mumbai. We get all sorts of weird and wonderful problems with equipment deployed in Delhi that we don't see elsewhere, and they fail at the annual peak humidity.

[oldway]

May be those 100MHz scopes looks like the PM3217 (all Philips scopes of that era were resembling) but they have another HV schematic with separate HV transformer and oscillator.
The PM3217 can be powered by a 24V external battery/power supply and those 100MHZ scopes can't.
This is the reason why schematics are different.

[SoundTech-LG]

Was almost done repairing my PM3263 (blown Rifa X cap for suppression) smoked the room on power up. The ch 1 attenuator pot shaft was broken, so was investigating that. No real easy way to fix without the extension shafts. As I was reassembling the position pot knobs they were difficult to put on, and I cracked Ch1 pot pushing the knob on (too easy for that to happen). The knobs are strange on these scopes. The knobs have clamping devices. Particularly the attenuator switch knobs. No clue how to get parts. Probably only by salvaging another scope. Looked like there could be other bad caps too as the sweep looked as if it had some 60Hz blanking going on.
My Tek 465B, and 475, are much better built, and far more reliable in my opinion.

[Oregon]

Could you please share the Philips pm3209 manual? I can't find it anywhere.
Huge thanks