Which 3D Printer to begin ?

[eugene]

I know this thread is getting old, but I thought I'd add my experience. Clearly the Bambu Labs printers are the hot ticket right now. I've used them at work so I understand why; they are amazing.

For home use I picked up an Elegoo Centauri Carbon (V1) on sale for $250 and don't feel like I'm missing much over the Bambu printers. It's fully enclosed so I can print ABS/ASA, which is important to me. It worked great right out of the box and is crazy fast. I think it's a good lower cost alternative if you're having trouble justifying a Bambu.

[Randy222]

Hello!
I'm interested in 3D Printing but I don't know where to begin. I have a budget of $500 and I would like a 3D Printer model easy to use.
Thanks!

Did you buy anything?

I started with a Ender3 Max Neo. added some struts to stiffen the uprights, and then I 3D printed some wheels and such to deliver filament from above (the side location was no good for me). I upgraded the manual leveling wheels, and some of the roller wheels. As of today one of the steppers makes a groan when it moves fast, but this only happens when homing the unit, I probably need to upgrade the steppers. The PSU that came with is fairly noisy, I have a replacement with auto-fan waiting to be installed.

The auto leveling matrix routine was a key feature for me. The included glass plate works well, no issues with parts sticking or popping off. Heating of bed and nozzle are fast. For PLA I am 60C bed and 210C nozzle. There's plenty of function in the controller, which I flashed once. The only "pitfalls", the tf card slot is a PITA, I have an extension, but the controller doesnt always recognize card if its inserted after the unit boots. And, no native wifi, but that can be an add-on.

Parts will just "pop" off the glass when it cools down to ambient, but to make that go faster I have two small clip-on fans that I run after printing stops to cool the bed down fast.

I paid way less than $500 for it years ago.

There's the obvious caveats, like if my CAD says 0.100" the printer gets very close, but not dead on. I have my cheat-sheet card for the printer, which I suspect most do for every 3D printer they use.

It's definitely an entry level system for newbies coming to 3D printing, but for me it works very well with no issues.

Also noted, the printer is #3 in a set of three things needed. The other two are also important. #1 CAD, and #2 the slicer. I use various CAD, but been using CURA slicer for many years now.

[Thomas Ballantine]

What's the current reasonable pick for a heated chamber? Looking at the Voron V0.2 kits currently

[thm_w]

What's the current reasonable pick for a heated chamber? Looking at the Voron V0.2 kits currently

If you want to 3D print things, buy a 3D printer.
If you want to screw around, buy a kit.

On the low end there is: bambu X2D, creality K2 pro, Qidi plus4. But those might all be above your budget.

[Randy222]

The k2 pro 300x300x300 is the glorified ender3 max neo, except max neo is about 1/3 or less in price.

k2 pro looks nice though.

[thm_w]

The k2 pro 300x300x300 is the glorified ender3 max neo, except max neo is about 1/3 or less in price.

No heated chamber on the ender.
Maybe you could throw it in a grow tent with a PTC heater, if you are only using it occasionally.

[abeyer]

The Centauri Carbon seems like a logical modern Ender 3 successor moreso than the current Creality lineup, in my mind. It seems to be the closest fit to what I always considered the Ender's sweet spot of good enough, open/hackable enough, and cheap enough to be a really nice choice for a technical beginner to start from and build on.

[Randy222]

The k2 pro 300x300x300 is the glorified ender3 max neo, except max neo is about 1/3 or less in price.

No heated chamber on the ender.
Maybe you could throw it in a grow tent with a PTC heater, if you are only using it occasionally.

Indeed true.
I see chambers as not being in the starter category though.
I don't see heating ender3 belts to 60C as being "good". Do they make high temp belts?

[thm_w]

Indeed true.
I see chambers as not being in the starter category though.
I don't see heating ender3 belts to 60C as being "good". Do they make high temp belts?

Standard rubber gt2 belt should handle 80C: https://docs.rs-online.com/5016/0900766b8002d3b7.pdf
High end EPDM can go 135C, not horribly expensive: https://spool3d.ca/gates-powergrip-2gt-high-temperature-epdm-belting/?sku=LL2MR06-GATES-EPDM-HITEMP

I think the main issues you see are the motors and control PCB overheating. Really high temp stuff will try to keep the motors out of the enclosed area entirely. Entry level units don't bother, but only go to ~60C.

[Randy222]

Standard rubber gt2 belt should handle 80C: https://docs.rs-online.com/5016/0900766b8002d3b7.pdf
High end EPDM can go 135C, not horribly expensive: https://spool3d.ca/gates-powergrip-2gt-high-temperature-epdm-belting/?sku=LL2MR06-GATES-EPDM-HITEMP

Good info. TY.

Do the hi temp items come in higher Shore to account for softening when heated? There's a couple of other things to worry about with belt drives in hi temp use.
1) as the rubber softens, so does the "lash" in the drive.
2) as rubber heats the oils in the rubber will leach out faster, so over time the rubber becomes more brittle and prone to tearing.

That said, I guess a worry for the highly-used system, perhaps not a major concern for a hobby user? Best to have replacement belts on the shelf.

[mawyatt]

Standard rubber gt2 belt should handle 80C: https://docs.rs-online.com/5016/0900766b8002d3b7.pdf
High end EPDM can go 135C, not horribly expensive: https://spool3d.ca/gates-powergrip-2gt-high-temperature-epdm-belting/?sku=LL2MR06-GATES-EPDM-HITEMP

Good info. TY.

Do the hi temp items come in higher Shore to account for softening when heated? There's a couple of other things to worry about with belt drives in hi temp use.
1) as the rubber softens, so does the "lash" in the drive.
2) as rubber heats the oils in the rubber will leach out faster, so over time the rubber becomes more brittle and prone to tearing.

That said, I guess a worry for the highly-used system, perhaps not a major concern for a hobby user? Best to have replacement belts on the shelf.

Aren't the timing belts in modern overhead cam petroleum engines some form of composite flexible rubber like material? These operate in a much more hostile environment than a 3D printer!!

Best

[Randy222]

Aren't the timing belts in modern overhead cam petroleum engines some form of composite flexible rubber like material? These operate in a much more hostile environment than a 3D printer!!

Best

Yes, but they all have a continuous belt tensioner, and, the belt only moves in one direction.
So I get your point about the environment, but the application is a tad different.

[Gyro]

Yes, but they all have a continuous belt tensioner, and, the belt only moves in one direction.
So I get your point about the environment, but the application is a tad different.

Ford (among others?) have even introduced belt-in-oil technology. Mind you, those tend to shed rubber if exposed to any fuel contamination (likely when approaching service) and clog the oil strainer, often causing failures within the specified change interval. It also maximises the engine disassembly required to change them, versus dry belt! 

My Bambu recommends light oiling of the surface (not bearings) of the idler rollers to reduce the belt noise. I'm steering clear of that one so far.

[thm_w]

Do the hi temp items come in higher Shore to account for softening when heated? There's a couple of other things to worry about with belt drives in hi temp use.
1) as the rubber softens, so does the "lash" in the drive.
2) as rubber heats the oils in the rubber will leach out faster, so over time the rubber becomes more brittle and prone to tearing.

That said, I guess a worry for the highly-used system, perhaps not a major concern for a hobby user? Best to have replacement belts on the shelf.

EPDM is a little softer, so theoretically more backlash, they recommend tensioning to a higher level to try to mitigate.
No idea how significant it is for regular belt.

My Bambu recommends light oiling of the surface (not bearings) of the idler rollers to reduce the belt noise. I'm steering clear of that one so far.

That is dumb, won't be doing that either, but I think they are just recommending oiling the very edge of the belt to stop it from squeaking: https://wiki.bambulab.com/en/p2s/maintenance/idler-pulley-lubrication

Guessing a lot of people complained about the noise so they needed an option.

[Gyro]

Wow, that's a an involved lubrication job. Yes, I see the grease on the belt edges presumably because they can rub against the shoulders of the pulley. On the A1 Mini, they suggest applying oil actually between the belt teeth and and pulley. Anyway, no noise and I'm not going to be the one to contaminate it!   https://wiki.bambulab.com/en/a1-mini/maintenance/period-maintenance

[Randy222]

I have belt drive garage door opener, same belt for past 19yrs, I use my garage door probably 6-8x daily, I use a light weight grease (a Molykote item) made for rubber to keep it alive, but usually lightly applied 1x every 24mo or so. No belt issues yet.

For the small 3D printer belts, I would probably just buy new ones, but, before installing I would "clean" them with a spray of Mother's Protectant. This stuff "soaks in" and leaves no residue to catch dirt & dust. On printers that are not covered when not in-use, keeping things dry is better since dust always settles and collects.

[Gyro]

For the small 3D printer belts, I would probably just buy new ones, but, before installing I would "clean" them with a spray of Mother's Protectant. This stuff "soaks in" and leaves no residue to catch dirt & dust. On printers that are not covered when not in-use, keeping things dry is better since dust always settles and collects.

Luckily, 3D printers are the ideal machines for manufacturing bespoke dust covers.

[Randy222]

Luckily, 3D printers are the ideal machines for manufacturing bespoke dust covers.

Nice.

Dust still gets in, but now not seen due to covers, but perhaps less of it.
I use a can of compressed air to clean before use.
At this hobby level, it's all good, and, doesn't really matter too much, but having clean stuff is good.
Since I can sew with machine, I thought about making a lightweight cotton cover, its been years and still have not made one.

[Gyro]

Yes, you're right, the ball slides slides and leadscrew still need the normal cleaning and lubrication but the covers make me feel better. The biggest gaps are actually in the extruder housing which is harder to cover.

I do have a cotton cover, (ok, sheet!) on my lathe to keep the rust promoting dust off it in varying temperature/humidity conditions. That works really well, especially as it is fairly oil impregnated from using it as a wiper.

For longer term storage I actually found that the plastic bag that the A1 Mini was packed in works well when pulled down over the top!