Beginner to Low Mid level Oscilloscope Recommendations

[Kyle Gushue]

Hi, I'm Kyle. I'm an audio engineer by trade, but I'm new to diy electronics. Im looking for recommendations for an entry to low-ish intermediate level oscilloscope.  The main purpose for the scope is audio equipment testing/building. I'm starting with guitar pedals, and eventually rack gear and amps.  Other than that, I would use it for testing lines and power for noise, and for general electronics projects.

Any guidance about features to look for, or other brands/models is very much appreciated.  Fwiw Rigol has a 15% off sale going until September 30th.  I'm looking for something adequate for the above tasks, with a little room to grow.  I'm happy to upgrade to a more advanced unit in a couple years should I need to. I originally purchased a Hantek DSO5202P, but returned it to get something with better value.  Ive acquired an M6013 capacitor meter, a few basic multimeters, and this multi purpose unit, DSO TC-4 https://www.fnirsi.com/products/dso-tc4

There's a lot of features and specs that I don't quite understand, any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks

Features I'd like have:

- Remote Control

- Spectrum analysis

- Frequency Response Analysis (Bode plot?)

- 4 channels preferably

- Works with and without computer


Features im not sure I need:

- FFT?

- Digital Testing?

- Anything else??

-----------

I've been looking into these units:

FNIRSI

DPO S350P - $240 (2 channel)
https://www.fnirsi.com/products/dpos350p


RIGOL

MSO 5074 - $899
https://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/MSO5000/

DHO 1074 - $764
https://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/dho1000/

DHO 914S - $654
https://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/dho900/

DHO 804 - $373
https://www.rigolna.com/products/rigol-digital-oscilloscopes/dho800/


SIGLENT

SDS800X HD Series:

SDS824X HD - $840

SDS814X HD - $587

SDS804X HD - $460

https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds800x-hd-digital-storage-oscilloscope/


SDS1000X-E  Series:

SDS1204X-E - $775

SDS1104X-E - $500

https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds1000x-e-series-super-phosphor-oscilloscopes/#

[tatel]

I would be looking at SDS804X HD

[GLouie]

Kyle, I also see your post on Gearspace, but I'll post here.

IMO, you should have a scope, but it isn't a substitute for a purpose-built audio test device.
I also hesitate to recommend beginners get a used vintage analog unit. Most are at least 30+ years old and many have a host of problems. I love my 30+ year old Hitachi analog scope, but also have a Siglent SDS814X-HD.

Today, there is no good reason not to get 4 channels and 12 bit digital. The Siglent is quite good. Note that there is a well-known hack to alter the code in the cheapest Siglent SDS800 and change it to the top of the line, 200MHz unit. I decided the procedure was enough of a hassle for me that I decided to just buy the 814 and decide later if I wanted to try the hack, plus I got the 100MHz probes instead of the 70MHz.

With Siglent, to do Bode plots you need to pay extra for a Siglent signal generator that will sync with the scope. Even then, I am not sure if it gives good audio-specific data. There is a reason why there is still a market for audio-specific analyzers.

Audio Precision is, of course, the high end of analyzers. Then probably Dscope or whatever they call it now. In the affordable area, probably Quantasylum. Lower still, with more limitations and dependency on what audio interface you have might be REW (Room EQ Wizard) and others. You need a PC with all these.

FFT is the spectrum analysis in scopes. Not being audio-specific they are more fiddly that audio apps to get familiar looking data, but they are more flexible in the settings.

Siglent 800 remote control is via networked web browser to a computer. A network connection is also needed to set the scope's time clock, as it has no real time clock with battery. No HDMI for an external screen: network to a big screen computer.

I did not like some Rigol aspects or other competitors, so went with Siglent. YMMV!

[Vovk_Z]

Spectrum analysis 'for audio' is several orders better with a sound card, because even the worst, cheapest sound card has at least 16 bits, and decent ones have 24 bits. We are now in the days of 0.0001 THD op-amps or better. So, there is almost nothing to see with a 12-bit oscilloscope FFT (as for me). I mean, 12-bit FFT doesn't make much sense for audio.
So, actually, an audio DIY beginner may be happy with an old, cheap 20-50 MHz CRT-oscilloscope and a sound card.
If you are buying a new digital scope, you have to look at 12-bit scopes (or more bits, if there are such), and be sure it is fast enough (I'm talking about a user interface response). Old cheap digital scopes were as slow as a snail (compared to CRT).

As a spectrum analyzer 'for audio' I use a PC with Asus Xonar Essence ST (or STX) with ARTA (or other) software (ASIO 32/24bit 192 kHz is pretty enough for me).
For RF-frequency spectrum analysis, I use TiniSA Ultra (it can be connected to PC too).

[BillyO]

I too would recommend the Siglent SDS804X HD.  BTW it can be upgraded to an SDS824X HD in about 5 minutes.  And it's not a "hack", it's entering a proper license key to enable the extra bandwidth.   The SDS1000X_E series is kind of outdated.

[Kyle Gushue]

Thanks for the replies.

I too would recommend the Siglent SDS804X HD.  BTW it can be upgraded to an SDS824X HD in about 5 minutes.  And it's not a "hack", it's entering a proper license key to enable the extra bandwidth.   The SDS1000X_E series is kind of outdated.

That's good to know it can be upgraded, just in case I want to.

I would be looking at SDS804X HD

Duly noted. the 800 series seems to be popular.

Spectrum analysis 'for audio' is several orders better with a sound card, because even the worst, cheapest sound card has at least 16 bits, and decent ones have 24 bits. We are now in the days of 0.0001 THD op-amps or better. So, there is almost nothing to see with a 12-bit oscilloscope FFT (as for me). I mean, 12-bit FFT doesn't make much sense for audio.
So, actually, an audio DIY beginner may be happy with an old, cheap 20-50 MHz CRT-oscilloscope and a sound card.
If you are buying a new digital scope, you have to look at 12-bit scopes (or more bits, if there are such), and be sure it is fast enough (I'm talking about a user interface response). Old cheap digital scopes were as slow as a snail (compared to CRT).

As a spectrum analyzer 'for audio' I use a PC with Asus Xonar Essence ST (or STX) with ARTA (or other) software (ASIO 32/24bit 192 kHz is pretty enough for me).
For RF-frequency spectrum analysis, I use TiniSA Ultra (it can be connected to PC too).

Here at home I have a Motu Ultralite Mk5 as my main interface, with 2x avid elevens, and a focusrite Scarlett solo hanging around.  I have some familiarity with REW, and I have reaper and izotope RX.

I am just not sure how to use it for audio testing. I'm happy to learn. 

Kyle, I also see your post on Gearspace, but I'll post here.

IMO, you should have a scope, but it isn't a substitute for a purpose-built audio test device.
I also hesitate to recommend beginners get a used vintage analog unit. Most are at least 30+ years old and many have a host of problems. I love my 30+ year old Hitachi analog scope, but also have a Siglent SDS814X-HD.

Today, there is no good reason not to get 4 channels and 12 bit digital. The Siglent is quite good. Note that there is a well-known hack to alter the code in the cheapest Siglent SDS800 and change it to the top of the line, 200MHz unit. I decided the procedure was enough of a hassle for me that I decided to just buy the 814 and decide later if I wanted to try the hack, plus I got the 100MHz probes instead of the 70MHz.

With Siglent, to do Bode plots you need to pay extra for a Siglent signal generator that will sync with the scope. Even then, I am not sure if it gives good audio-specific data. There is a reason why there is still a market for audio-specific analyzers.

Audio Precision is, of course, the high end of analyzers. Then probably Dscope or whatever they call it now. In the affordable area, probably Quantasylum. Lower still, with more limitations and dependency on what audio interface you have might be REW (Room EQ Wizard) and others. You need a PC with all these.

FFT is the spectrum analysis in scopes. Not being audio-specific they are more fiddly that audio apps to get familiar looking data, but they are more flexible in the settings.

Siglent 800 remote control is via networked web browser to a computer. A network connection is also needed to set the scope's time clock, as it has no real time clock with battery. No HDMI for an external screen: network to a big screen computer.

I did not like some Rigol aspects or other competitors, so went with Siglent. YMMV!

Ah ok appreciate you taking the time to reply to both threads.  I have a computer with a Samsung 77" OLED, but the HDMI port would be useful for my portable screens.  Not a deal breaker though.  That's interesting about the time clock. My guess is I'd have it network connected most of the time.

the Quantisylum QA403 in within my budget, (around 800 USD or less), and I like that it's not a hardware authorization dongle situation.  It's an interesting option I think.  Any thoughts?  I have plenty of computers and screens here, if I don't have to pay for that in the form of a hardware scope, that's cool. 

Cheers!

[Grandchuck]

Hello Kyle.  I use a Scarlett Solo and REW to look at THD.

[GLouie]

@kyle, IMO you want a real scope as well as an audio-specific analyzer of some sort. Many old-timers insist on an analog scope or both an analog and digital.

Quantasylum needs a PC and I'm a Mac person, but it seems popular at that price point. Is it better than a decent audio interface and REW? I don't know. REW seems very popular at the -free- price point; I haven't tried it but intend to. I do a lot of tape machines, and like the Nak T-100 app with a Focusrite 8i6, but it's very geared for tape machines. Audio interfaces can be tricky to quantify and adjust for analysis use, and they generally won't do higher voltages like from power amps. The turnkey solutions try to figure this out for you.

All of the free/low cost solutions seem to be one-person operations, and subject to what that person wants to do. It looks like ARTA is now freeware and not updated, for example. I don't know what happens if the people at Quantasylum or REW decide to stop. Audio Precision would probably keep going, but the price is very high.

You can call the Siglent upgrades what you want, but it does not seem to be factory authorized even if they have not blocked it. IIRC, you would be running a Python script obtained off the internet with license keys obtained from somewhere which unlocks all the features already built-in. Plenty of info on YouTube and in this forum's Test Equipment section. Seems easy and saves some money, you can decide if it invalidates the warranty or having the wrong front label or probes bothers you.

[MathWizard]

Now that the 12-bit Siglent scopes are out, have a bunch of people sold their SDS1000X-E scopes and older ones ? Has there been more on ebay ?

I can vouch for the Siglent scopes, and some old CRT scopes are still nice, but probably lacking in features and they usually weigh a ton. Both old and new scopes can be impossible to repair without some exact part, that can't be bought separate.

If you want to save a few $$$ but get a good general purpose scope, I'd really recommend watching ebay for some used Rigol or Siglent scope.

I too would recommend the Siglent SDS804X HD.  BTW it can be upgraded to an SDS824X HD in about 5 minutes.  And it's not a "hack", it's entering a proper license key to enable the extra bandwidth.   The SDS1000X_E series is kind of outdated.

I guess it's time I try that. 200MHz sounds so much nicer than 70MHz.

1 thing I don't like about the 804XHD so far though, is the push buttons seem way too stiff. It's too easy to move the scope when pushing them.

I'll have to check my other Siglent scopes and see how they compare. My hands haven't gotten weaker, but I really noticed it when using it. I hope they all aren't like that.

[VEGETA]

I advise getting DHO804 which is really nice pricing for the value. I purchased one myself and waiting for it now.

[Kyle Gushue]

Hello Kyle.  I use a Scarlett Solo and REW to look at THD.

Sweet, I'm excited to try this! 

@kyle, IMO you want a real scope as well as an audio-specific analyzer of some sort. Many old-timers insist on an analog scope or both an analog and digital.

Quantasylum needs a PC and I'm a Mac person, but it seems popular at that price point. Is it better than a decent audio interface and REW? I don't know. REW seems very popular at the -free- price point; I haven't tried it but intend to. I do a lot of tape machines, and like the Nak T-100 app with a Focusrite 8i6, but it's very geared for tape machines. Audio interfaces can be tricky to quantify and adjust for analysis use, and they generally won't do higher voltages like from power amps. The turnkey solutions try to figure this out for you.

All of the free/low cost solutions seem to be one-person operations, and subject to what that person wants to do. It looks like ARTA is now freeware and not updated, for example. I don't know what happens if the people at Quantasylum or REW decide to stop. Audio Precision would probably keep going, but the price is very high.

You can call the Siglent upgrades what you want, but it does not seem to be factory authorized even if they have not blocked it. IIRC, you would be running a Python script obtained off the internet with license keys obtained from somewhere which unlocks all the features already built-in. Plenty of info on YouTube and in this forum's Test Equipment section. Seems easy and saves some money, you can decide if it invalidates the warranty or having the wrong front label or probes bothers you.

That app looks cool.  One of my projects is to clean up a tascam 34 reel to reel machine I have,  definitely gonna check out the app. 

I think I'm going to keep an eye on the 804x and 814x, maybe I'll catch a sale over the holiday season.  In the meantime I can learn more about how to use my multimeter, and REW with my interface. 

Now that the 12-bit Siglent scopes are out, have a bunch of people sold their SDS1000X-E scopes and older ones ? Has there been more on ebay ?

I can vouch for the Siglent scopes, and some old CRT scopes are still nice, but probably lacking in features and they usually weigh a ton. Both old and new scopes can be impossible to repair without some exact part, that can't be bought separate.

If you want to save a few $$$ but get a good general purpose scope, I'd really recommend watching ebay for some used Rigol or Siglent scope.

I too would recommend the Siglent SDS804X HD.  BTW it can be upgraded to an SDS824X HD in about 5 minutes.  And it's not a "hack", it's entering a proper license key to enable the extra bandwidth.   The SDS1000X_E series is kind of outdated.

I guess it's time I try that. 200MHz sounds so much nicer than 70MHz.

1 thing I don't like about the 804XHD so far though, is the push buttons seem way too stiff. It's too easy to move the scope when pushing them.

I'll have to check my other Siglent scopes and see how they compare. My hands haven't gotten weaker, but I really noticed it when using it. I hope they all aren't like that.

That's interesting about repairing them.  I generally don't buy used, and your point about parts has me leaning towards something new, at least to start out with.

I advise getting DHO804 which is really nice pricing for the value. I purchased one myself and waiting for it now.

Nice, I'd be curious to know how you like it.

---

I appreciate everyone's insight, Cheers!

[GLouie]

I think the Nak T-100 app is excellent for tape machines, especially for the price. I use it at 24b/96kHz.

Good luck looking for a sale on Siglent. In north America at least, minimum advertised price from authorized distributors is the rule, so  everyone's price is advertised as the same. Prices just went up May 1 ("tariffs") and may be subject to tariff changes, as these come from China. You might be able to strike a deal if you buy something else at the same time, like a discounted accessory.

[Kyle Gushue]

I think the Nak T-100 app is excellent for tape machines, especially for the price. I use it at 24b/96kHz.

Good luck looking for a sale on Siglent. In north America at least, minimum advertised price from authorized distributors is the rule, so  everyone's price is advertised as the same. Prices just went up May 1 ("tariffs") and may be subject to tariff changes, as these come from China. You might be able to strike a deal if you buy something else at the same time, like a discounted accessory.

Lol yeah I looked around last night and every 804 was $461.  Good point about adding an accessory, I struck a similar deal when I bought a mesa boogie, which had fixed prices.  They threw in some pedals for next to nothing.  Is there a particular accessory you think might be good to have?

I'm planning on getting it from an authorized dealer just in case of any issues. I'm ok paying a bit of a premium sometimes just for a little peace of mind.

[tautech]

..........
1 thing I don't like about the 804XHD so far though, is the push buttons seem way too stiff. It's too easy to move the scope when pushing them.

I'll have to check my other Siglent scopes and see how they compare. My hands haven't gotten weaker, but I really noticed it when using it. I hope they all aren't like that.

Much depends on the surface the DSO is on and to some degree your personal usage style.
For some years with these lightweight DSO's I've taken to placing a hand atop of the scope so to steady it and using another finger/thumb when needing to press a button but that's something I learnt from the earlier X-E series.

With the SDS800X HD models now being touch and mouse capable I tend to use a mouse more where if pushing buttons and scope stability worries you, you can instead use the mouse instead for every operation the buttons allow.
Some are buried in menus however you can fully operate the scope with just a mouse just as you can from the webserver.

[GLouie]

Any special deal would depend on the dealer, and what they carry. You'd have to ask, maybe they'd throw in a Siglent carry bag ($72). You might have to look for something cheaper and a different brand, like a roll of solder. Or you might get nothing, I'm guessing there's not much margin on these entry level items.

Lol yeah I looked around last night and every 804 was $461.  Good point about adding an accessory, I struck a similar deal when I bought a mesa boogie, which had fixed prices.  They threw in some pedals for next to nothing.  Is there a particular accessory you think might be good to have?

I'm planning on getting it from an authorized dealer just in case of any issues. I'm ok paying a bit of a premium sometimes just for a little peace of mind.

[Kyle Gushue]

Any special deal would depend on the dealer, and what they carry. You'd have to ask, maybe they'd throw in a Siglent carry bag ($72). You might have to look for something cheaper and a different brand, like a roll of solder. Or you might get nothing, I'm guessing there's not much margin on these entry level items.

That's cool, I'm comfortable with the price point so anything extra I'll consider bonus.  I haven't downloaded NAK T-100 yet. For some reason on my mini PC (used for REW and screen sharing) the windows store and update functions are not working, so I'm just going to reinstall Windows and get the app.

I found a few other options. I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts about them.  Both winscope and zelscope ran fine using in windows 11, when I was playing around.

Winscope - free

Overview:
https://www.cxi1.co.uk/Prac/winscope.htm

Download:
https://www.cxi1.co.uk/Downloads/download.htm


Zelscope - $9.95 (14 day free trial)

Overview:
https://www.zelscope.com/index.html

Download:
https://www.zelscope.com/download.html


SoundScope - free

Download:
https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9n19c75120t2?hl=en-US&gl=US


-----

One thing I've noticed is precautions about blowing up soundcards when using them as test interfaces. The suggestion was to use an input buffer, and something about using a voltage divider to help protect the audio interface.

A question I have is how do I connect probes to an audio interface for testing?  Would I just use some 1/4" connecters and connect those to the probes?  I'm still generally foggy on exactly how to use the interface in this situation.

Another thing I came across is these Hantek USB interface.  It's limited but only costs $70 with free software. 

Hantek6002BE Series (2ch)
https://hantek.com/m/productdetail/31#


They have other models here:
https://hantek.com/m/productList/2

[Kyle Gushue]

Just wanted to thank everyone for their help.  I've decided on the 804, it's features and upgrade path should meet my needs quite well with room to grow.  Cheers!

- Kyle