Career advice desperatly needed

[jr561]

Hello everyone,

Long time fan here. Never posted anything so far. I have a problem and would appreciate some advice on the following.

I'm 35, poor when I was younger so I went vocational high school way. Became electrician. Started programming and never worked as an electrician. Was programming embeded systems, mostly PIC, AVR, ARM9, ARM11, TI microcontrollers for years. Did some hobby electronics on the side but mostly focused on work.   

I built up a small family business with my wife so now I'm financially stable. But it's getting hard finding work for me. I have no degree. I'm thinking about enrolling electronics and communications engineering and get a degree. It's a 5 year course. I would be 40 wen I finish. I can finally afford to pay that but not sure how the industry would look on that. Always wanted to design the boards also, not just program what the hardware department made.

You guys think it's worth it? I can't stop thinking about it. I never had math problems so that shouldn't be a problem. But people're saying to me I'm too old and should just stick to trade and learn how to be an electrician if I can't get another job programming.

[EEVblog]

After having spent your career embedded micro programming, that experience trumps any degree.
At your stage I wouldn't bother, I'd keep hunting for work, there is always a job somewhere.
5 years to get a degree so you can go work for the man? Not a smart move if you ask me.

Oh, i presume the "family business" is the embedded programming?

[EEVblog]

But people're saying to me I'm too old and should just stick to trade and learn how to be an electrician if I can't get another job programming.

Those people are dragging you down, don't listen to them.

[Balaur]

Disclaimer: Please note that I'm not aware of the particularities of the academics in Philippines, so my comments may not make sense in your case.

I have a friend (and a colleague for some time) that originally had a technician training.
He decided at 35+ years to become an electronics engineer and followed through this decision.

The training period took 2 years (should have been 3 originally but he was able to prove that his level - acquired through his professional activity and experience - was adequate).
The French work regulations allow for some training opportunities that the employer have to respect. He used these opportunities to go through the engineering school while still employed. Of course, he worked quart~half time and he had to take some months during the more intense times.
He finally become an engineer in his late thirties and he was able to find a job accordingly.

So, in his case, everything went OK at the cost of some lifestyle sacrifices during the training period.

Speaking from an employer perspective, getting your engineer diploma later in your life is a definitely positive point.

PS: If , if you come to me with a fresh management or business grade and you had an engineering degree, I will definitely be less accepting, as I had too many bad experiences with that type of people.

[fivefish]

Was programming embeded systems, mostly PIC, AVR, ARM9, ARM11, TI microcontrollers for years.

Man, don't discount this experience. This is valuable stuff.

But the reality is employers really do look at that piece of paper. Especially there. 

I'm thinking about enrolling electronics and communications engineering and get a degree. It's a 5 year course. I would be 40 wen I finish.

I'd say go for it.  Check out Don Bosco   The schedules for 3rd to 5th year are friendly to those having day jobs. 

I can finally afford to pay that but not sure how the industry would look on that. Always wanted to design the boards also, not just program what the hardware department made.

As Dave says, sometimes real world experience trumps a college degree. But when competition is tough, having that extra piece of paper is maybe what you need to give you that extra push, or that credibility (passing the ECE board exams too). Then you'll have a potent combination... a college degree, passed board exams, real-world embedded programming experience.

[jr561]

Oh, i presume the "family business" is the embedded programming?

No, sadly not. Family business is retail. Buy cheap, sell less cheap. All I do there is purchasing, pushing money around, getting supplies where they belong etc. Closest to electronics was installing a few bundy clocks.

[jr561]

As Dave says, sometimes real world experience trumps a college degree. But when competition is tough, having that extra piece of paper is maybe what you need to give you that extra push, or that credibility (passing the ECE board exams too). Then you'll have a potent combination... a college degree, passed board exams, real-world embedded programming experience.

Will give Don Bosco a look. Thanks for the support. Gave me the push I needed to finally make up my mind.

[EEVblog]

Oh, i presume the "family business" is the embedded programming?

No, sadly not. Family business is retail. Buy cheap, sell less cheap. All I do there is purchasing, pushing money around, getting supplies where they belong etc. Closest to electronics was installing a few bundy clocks.

How many years were you doing the embedded programming work? and how recently was that?
My thoughts were based on you having been a full time programmer up until now.

[EEVblog]

Disclaimer: Please note that I'm not aware of the particularities of the academics in Philippines, so my comments may not make sense in your case.

Yes, your country matters a lot.
In Australia hardly anyone cares about your qualifications when you have sufficient experience. Not necessarily the same in other countries.

[jr561]

Oh, i presume the "family business" is the embedded programming?

No, sadly not. Family business is retail. Buy cheap, sell less cheap. All I do there is purchasing, pushing money around, getting supplies where they belong etc. Closest to electronics was installing a few bundy clocks.

How many years were you doing the embedded programming work? and how recently was that?
My thoughts were based on you having been a full time programmer up until now.

At 17 I started playing around with programming languages. Until about 20 was mostly working on small business applications for small companies or individuals. After that I spend about 5 years as part of a team, maintaining an accounting/inventory management app in c++. After that I was working PIC 8 bit series, mostly small things like making data loggers for monitoring machine uptime, temperature & humidity monitors, LiIon battery charger firmware. After that I joined a small company and did whatever paid. Got to work on various embedded devices maintaining and upgrading existing firmware and functionalities. Like porting things on new architecture because motherboard changed and stuff. I was programming access to various sensors via I2C, SPI, 1wire, 2wire, ... Programmed USB slave device for connecting to PC, ... whatever was needed. Last 3 years was mostly C++ desktop applications and Android apps.

I'm confident I can program anything given enough time and google but I was never working on one thing for so long I could be able to say I'm a master at anything. For example, I only did one project of code on an ARM11. As soon as I had interrupt routines working and everything ready for development I was moved to another thing. 

[jr561]

All the boards I was working on were always developed by an ECE and all the heavy math stuff was done by Phd people. So I guess I was a code monkey for all those years.

[dr.diesel]

In Australia hardly anyone cares about your qualifications when you have sufficient experience. Not necessarily the same in other countries.

Total opposite of my experience here in the States.  In all the big corporations I've worked for, for any Engineering position, HR sets the qualifications, and all resumes go through them first.  Without say a BS degree, the hiring manager won't even get the resume, completely black and white.  Experience means nothing without the degree, but if you have the degree (and usually any school is fine), then experience is everything.

Stupid I agree, just the way it is.

[SteveLy]

Only do it if you can get into a good course, the course material really interests you, and you want to learn it for learning's sake. Don't do it solely for the piece of paper and the improved employment prospects. Five years is only worth if you enjoy doing it.

[Mechatrommer]

I built up a small family business with my wife so now I'm financially stable.

so whats wrong with that? go where the money is... get a bigger contracting or supplier license, get a government contracts and get rich.. why it has to be an electronics? lucky i have a stable job, another part time income job, and ee is just my hobby very good at sinking money that i gained... if i quit my other jobs and only rely on ee, i dont think i can survive out here, or at least i'll be doing "the ee that i dont like" stuffs like powerline poles assembly or home and sockets wirings mostly related to civil contracting jobs. i heard tough stories in philiphines esp manila the overcrowded capital city, even you have a degree its difficult to find a good job, there are so many skilled manilans thats poor and dont have proper jobs, so they said, so why you have to exchange the money with non promising career?

[Tomorokoshi]

...
Was programming embeded systems, mostly PIC, AVR, ARM9, ARM11, TI microcontrollers for years. Did some hobby electronics on the side but mostly focused on work.   
...
I'm thinking about enrolling electronics and communications engineering and get a degree.
...
Always wanted to design the boards also, not just program what the hardware department made.
...

Take a look at the kinds of companies that are around. If there are a lot of small companies / start ups / niche places it's possible they will want someone who can do both the hardware and the software. Even larger companies that split projects out might allocate people that way. 5 years a long haul. Does that include all the extra literature, etc. classes that universities like to throw in?

Alternatively, with a lot of experience already a shorter computer science degree that gets into the software engineering aspect, as opposed to "merely programming" would also be a strong addition. There will still be target hardware and opportunity for home projects.

Others will have different perspectives, but even in relatively hardware-intensive places the amount of engineering work on programming outweighs circuit design by quite a bit. Software work also seems to make for more interaction with sales, marketing, customers, etc. because it's the software the people interact with.

[tehmagicsmoke]

The only question you should ask is what is going to make you happy?

I took classes in c++ programming and halfway through I hated it.

Check out the $100 startup book by Chris guillebough.

I enjoy programming only when it is something I want to make with a microcontroller, more than that I enjoy working on cars and motorcycles, again only when it is a project I want to do.

What do you enjoy, what do you really really want to do?

[jr561]

I always wanted to be able to design more complex circuits than what I'm doing now. I can do clocks, calculator, capacitive touch keys, nfc tag readers and other simple things. But it's mostly just picking a component, reading through datasheets and application notes and then putting things together. Always wanted to be able to understand fully what's going on though and to be able to do stuff like analog circuits and signal processing.

I have decided to go after CE, it's the best combination of SW and HW I think. Plus I should be able to do it while working. It's not like I'm going to stop work for 5 years.

Thanks everyone for the advice. It helped.

[rjeberhardt]

If you enjoy it, go for it and ignore the nay sayers!

Good luck
Russell.