Author Topic: Math Question - One of Those Silly Ones From Article  (Read 5027 times)

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Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Math Question - One of Those Silly Ones From Article
« Reply #75 on: August 24, 2023, 05:56:58 pm »
The hidden subtext here is that BODMAS and similar rules are most useful when an expression is written in a single line of text where all characters are the same size.  As soon as you can write equations using multiple fonts with superscripts, subscripts and other typesetting tools a whole new toolbox of clarification opens up.  And it is a world where BODMAS frequently hurts more than it helps.
What a terrible legacy the punch card and typewriter left for us.
its not just about that... you are looking at the subset of the dilemma.. it can be as simple as 2 + 6 x 2.. or as in my first post for 2 + 6 / 2, which one the sender meant? (a) or (b)? (2 + 6) / 2? or 2 + (6 / 2)? refer to my 1st post here.. heck i checked my casio calculator for that to follow bodmas... not left to right precedence...
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Online tggzzz

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Re: Math Question - One of Those Silly Ones From Article
« Reply #76 on: August 24, 2023, 06:06:43 pm »
heck i checked my casio calculator for that to follow bodmas... not left to right precedence...

I've had two Casio calculators. One followed BEDMAS, one did not.
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Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Math Question - One of Those Silly Ones From Article
« Reply #77 on: August 24, 2023, 06:23:53 pm »
The hidden subtext here is that BODMAS and similar rules are most useful when an expression is written in a single line of text where all characters are the same size.  As soon as you can write equations using multiple fonts with superscripts, subscripts and other typesetting tools a whole new toolbox of clarification opens up.  And it is a world where BODMAS frequently hurts more than it helps.

What a terrible legacy the punch card and typewriter left for us.

BEDMAS has nothing to do with typeface, human language, machine language, nachine tooling or anything like that. It is a pure mathematics concept concerning mathematical operations.

Other mathematical concepts include planes, lines, points. Or maybe you would like to claim that planes are screwed up because of machining tolerances, and lines because of pen widths?

You are, of course, free to invent your own rules for evaluating expressions - and many have. But the onus is then on you to state and explain (and preferably justify) your rules before using them.

You are right.  BEDMAS has nothing to do with typefaces.  It is a tool for describing mathematical operations.   Without such tools you would have to write these equations in some form like: First multiply two times six.  Then add one and multiply the resulting sum by 3.14.   If you have ever looked at the math problems written by folks in ancient times written originally in cuneiform the usefulness of such tools is obvious.   Latex is another tool.  Both have their place.  I was describing where I have found the tool most useful.  Your mileage may vary.
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: Math Question - One of Those Silly Ones From Article
« Reply #78 on: August 26, 2023, 02:09:10 pm »
Pronunciation encoding:  https://xkcd.com/2819/
 

Offline ledtester

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Re: Math Question - One of Those Silly Ones From Article
« Reply #79 on: August 27, 2023, 03:49:54 am »
I found this video an interesting overview of the history of the precedence rules for multiplication and division starting from the early 1900's through today:


 

Offline gnuarm

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Re: Math Question - One of Those Silly Ones From Article
« Reply #80 on: August 27, 2023, 11:15:22 am »
I found this video an interesting overview of the history of the precedence rules for multiplication and division starting from the early 1900's through today:



It seems silly to rely on unreliable conventions when it is so simple to explicitly describe your equation using parentheses. 
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Offline bostonmanTopic starter

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Re: Math Question - One of Those Silly Ones From Article
« Reply #81 on: August 27, 2023, 01:51:02 pm »
Lots of interesting feedback, but it seems this topic remains opinion rather than stating a standard procedure.

Let's use the example of adding weights. Maybe shipping items from my house and needed to get a total weight, but also note individual weight of each box. My computer desk is 100lbs, book shelf 50lbs, and books are a total weight of 300lbs, however, my books will not all fit in one box, they need to be divided into 5 boxes.

Doing the math quickly and easily in my head, I would do the division first because I can add 60lbs along with 100 and 50 easier than retaining 150, doing the division, and then adding it into the number I had to remember.

Writing the "equation" would be simply: 100 + 50 + 300 / 5.

BEDMOS or however it's spelled would apply to this equation also, but per my original question, would engineers and mathematicians actually write the equation in hopes the reader(s) would apply grade school rules to it; and is the grade school rule actually the common practice to decipher such an equation (although this is a simple equation, let's assume it's much longer with more dividing and multiplication)?

The way I'd write this would be: 100 + 50 + (300/5). This seems quite obvious the 300/5 is its own section.

The other way someone may read it left to right and get 90, or they may think it's 100 + ((50 + 300) / 5)

As it's been pointed out, those articles are clickbait (and I knew this before), and the writer isn't a mathematician, but still, the question is interesting.

If this was a five equation with five unknowns, comprised of A, B, C, D, E, several brackets and parenthesis would be used, such as: [((A+2) / B) + (C^2) - (SQRT D) ] /E

With the above, assuming all five equations and unknowns were found, now you have more freedom. I can add A+2 first without worrying about C^2 until after, or take the SQRT of D first, but know I can't divide by E until the end. With BEDMOS I'd have to divide by E before adding A+2 and so on.

Let's assume A - E is 1-5 after solving for all five unknowns.

The equation would then look like 1 + 2 / 2 + 3^2 - SQRT 4 / 5

With BEDMAS 2/2, 3^2, and the SQRT of 4/5 would all be done first; obviously giving a completely different answer.
 

Offline IanB

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Re: Math Question - One of Those Silly Ones From Article
« Reply #82 on: August 27, 2023, 02:00:01 pm »
[((A+2) / B) + (C^2) - (SQRT D) ] / E

Let's assume A - E is 1-5

The equation would then look like 1 + 2 / 2 + 3^2 - SQRT 4 / 5

No, it wouldn't. I would look like [((1+2) / 2) + (3^2) - (SQRT 4) ] / 5

Equations and formulas a not games. You have to write down what you mean, and be consistent about it.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2023, 02:02:11 pm by IanB »
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: Math Question - One of Those Silly Ones From Article
« Reply #83 on: August 27, 2023, 02:01:22 pm »
This is an example of a calculation, to be done in situ, not first on paper, which I would do in RPN on a calculator.
 


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