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Hi all
I hope I'm posting in the right group.
I'm a therapist and want to put an old payphone in my waiting room that "plays" mp3 files through the handset activated either by lifting receiver and or pressing the dialpad numbers.
This is an art project mostly. I'd like patients in waiting room to lift receiver and hear positive affirmations, stories, comedy routines, etc.
I bought a payphone off ebay and I figure id use something like an iPod to store audio files on "shuffle" mode activated somehow to play to each track. Not sure if I should have a mechanical or electronic solution. When people lift receiver and listen, it should play a random audio until hanging up or perhaps press any digit to shuffle through random sound files.
This should be low tech or reasonably doable for a non electronics person (me) to do.
anyone who can offer advice would be appreciated!!!
Thanks??
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Hey there,
most audio players like the iPod have a multi-function headphone jack that allows play/pause, track control and volume to be adjusted. I'd take one of these "headset remote controls" apart and solder extension wires to the buttons on the payphone. However basic electronics and soldering skills are needed, maybe check for a local hacker/makerspace close by that can help you.
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Wow that's a great idea!
That opens up the possibility of buttons being dedicated to certain functions like "for list of local support groups, press one, techniques on mindfulness, suicide prevention, etc., Press two, humor/positive messages, press three, lectures or podcasts, four..." And so on
If I can figure this out I'll post pics of it in the projects section in case anyone is interested.
If this is beyond my scope and I have to hire someone to do this, if you or anyone reading this knows where to advertise for unusual jobs like this, please let me know.
I'm in falls church Virginia.
Thanks for those great tips!
Cheers
John
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Was it telco owned phone (Verizon, Bell South, Nynex, etc.) or a COCOT (customer owned coin operated telephone)? That could make a difference in how you should go about achieving your goal.
I've always loved payphones and used to own a COCOT myself until an ex-roommate screwed me over after begging me to let him borrow it. I would LOVE to see the progress of this project.
One idea for you... assuming you can get inside the phone, there should be plenty of room to fit a small DTMF decoder and a Raspberry pi. Have the pi control the functions and playlist. This should be MUCH easier than trying to control it by splicing in one of those button remote things, and it'll keep the true feeling of using the phone. The person would still hear the normal sounds of the buttons. This way your only limits are your imagination. You could even have games on it, let your patients check in or create new appointments, the list goes on. You could even have it do things if someone inserts a coin, as most pay phones send a tone (or series of 2 or 5 tones for dime and quarter) over the line to signal the telco what coin was inserted.
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Hey - thanks for those great ideas! I love preserving the "feel" of the payphone's tones and the ding from depositing coins. Good idea about the coin sounds. Probably doesn't have a key though so I'd have to figure out how to return the coin or I could donate the coins to a local charity that appeals to my client base.
Shipping costs on this payphone were $66. It's pretty heavy - more so than I expected. I'll be unpacking it this afternoon so, hopefully, I'll be able to answer your question about which type or company this payphone came from.
I'll post pics here and if I can figure out how to open the actual phone up, I'll post pics of the guts and subsequent upgrades with some of the suggestions you all are providing. Now that I think about it, I'll probably have to find some special tools but I don't want to get ahead of myself.
More later...
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I'm actually having dinner in NYC this evening with several friends who are huge payphone lovers. I'm sure many of them would love to see the progress as well, and could possibly offer help and maybe even be able to get a key for you. I'll try to get some of them to check out the forum.
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That's cool!
I did try to post a reply with some pics a minute ago but it's not here so I may have to post one pic at a time.
This is a heavy duty phone - made the mistake of not unpacking it outside because a bunch of fine iron shavings and grime ringed the carpet! Also it smells like the ashtray in the teacher's lounge circa 1960s - had to leave it on the porch to air out.
One of the pics shows it's owned and operated by Teletrust, Inc (Sherman, TX).
Coin box lid comes off and there is no key - the side has a utility key hole for opening the back as you probably already know. So, I'm going to have to track down a key or figure out how to break into it without ruining the old look of this phone.
I'll send pics in a subsequent post so they'll hopefully get posted.
Thanks!
J
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That's cool!
Argh! You just reminded me I have one of those keys in my work truck that I was supposed to bring with me. They can be had on eBay for less than $5 each. I believe I paid $7 shipped for 2 of them.
I did try to post a reply with some pics a minute ago but it's not here so I may have to post one pic at a time.
This is a heavy duty phone - made the mistake of not unpacking it outside because a bunch of fine iron shavings and grime ringed the carpet! Also it smells like the ashtray in the teacher's lounge circa 1960s - had to leave it on the porch to air out.
One of the pics shows it's owned and operated by Teletrust, Inc (Sherman, TX).
Coin box lid comes off and there is no key - the side has a utility key hole for opening the back as you probably already know. So, I'm going to have to track down a key or figure out how to break into it without ruining the old look of this phone.
I'll send pics in a subsequent post so they'll hopefully get posted.
Thanks!
J
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If I can figure this out I'll post pics of it in the projects section in case anyone is interested.
If you do be sure to put a link to it.
I bet you can find some good sound clips from here:
https://archive.org/details/oldtimeradio?sort=titleSorter
I used some for a video once. Try the creaking door from CBS :
https://archive.org/details/CbsRadioMysteryTheater1977-1978_566
I also used some from Whistler:
https://archive.org/details/Whistler-1945_690
Some sound clips from these old shows may increase your business
Or maybe once you figure this out, you can sell these since it is a good idea
I imagine you could customize the clips and have the patient enter a code to hear their message ( like "pay your bill")
I would try bluetooth to load the clips.
Sounds like a fun project.
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Hey that's great to know I can get a key on eBay. Is the side lock the same as the coin box?
Those are cool links ez thank u for that. I'll bet there's a ton of audio files, old radio shiwd, sound effects. Pay your Bill - lol - I like that one!
This project reminds me of the kiosks that they did with computers and a dial-up modems 25+ years ago but way older school.
I showed a pic of the phone to one of my 12 yo clients who, of, course, never saw this before. It was a real hit. I'll bet half my young clients know how to use raspberry pi and wire things - it'll be cool to show them as piece of this old school technology
I'm not able to attach pics so I'll load them up on the cloud and add links ... -
You should be able to upload images here - just be aware that there are size limitations.
If you do try and it fails, there should be a message somewhere on the screen that will tell you why. -
Ok thanks
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Hey that's great to know I can get a key on eBay. Is the side lock the same as the coin box?
Well the "key" I got on eBay is more of a tool than a key. It's not gonna get you into the actual locks. I've seen inside a few payphones, but sadly haven't actually opened any myself. Not even my own that I used to have. I did see someone pick one of the locks on a pay phone once. There was a whole bunch of phones and probably a few hundred people with lockpicks working on the for the whole weekend.
Those are cool links ez thank u for that. I'll bet there's a ton of audio files, old radio shiwd, sound effects. Pay your Bill - lol - I like that one!
This project reminds me of the kiosks that they did with computers and a dial-up modems 25+ years ago but way older school.
I showed a pic of the phone to one of my 12 yo clients who, of, course, never saw this before. It was a real hit. I'll bet half my young clients know how to use raspberry pi and wire things - it'll be cool to show them as piece of this old school technology
I'm not able to attach pics so I'll load them up on the cloud and add links ...
I just sent a link to this post to a friend of mine with much more knowledge about phones and locks than myself. Hopefully he'll pay us a visit.
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I honestly think this might be a bit too hard as a first timer. I have been playing with electronics for a few years and think that would be a challenging project. The raspberry pi idea (or Arduino which is like a micro controller which takes inputs signals then makes output signals you control using computer code called "c programing") would be best but you will have to:
Learn:
python- programming code
Linux- operating system that's like ms dos but also has a Mac like interface
soldering
Voltmeter
figuring out what components like resistors and transistors do
how current and electricity flow
ALOT of time messing about with some mechanical tinkering
Trying to get things working together only to realize they are not like lego blocks: different voltages- have to build power supplies and getting the payphone output down to "logic level 5 volts" so the raspberry pi can understand it with a "DTMF" which is the beeps the numbers make turned into signals the pi which is going to be the mp3 player understands
Getting the pi's output to play over the head set so impedance and voltage matching.
If you do get it working I think you will be a future electronics hobbyist. Expect to spend ALOT of time on this and trying a lot of things that won't work as you blow things up by accident. Not trying to discourage you but rather setting realistic expectations.
Best thing would be to pair up with someone who has built electronics projects before. Its easy to get stuck on things and get frustrated. Look up "Ben Heck" or "Mikes electric stuff" on youtube to see how much knowledge equipment and time it takes to do "simple things" like make an ipod screen or a controller work in your project.
This forum is really helpful but expect them to give really technical answers that require a lot of reading up to understand. -
Thank you for your honest and thorough description and advice.
You are right, This is WAY over my head. I just looked on upwork.com and I've used that and similar sites to hire people in the past. I also posited an ad on CL volunteer section for someone with these skills. I'm going to tap into the other networks you mentioned and local schools/universities and any other suggestions you all have
My clients are gifted teens with autism spectrum and gender incongruence conditions and this type of project is something they can probably do or learn. Some of them do programming, robotics, etc., So I feel confident that if I supply the parts and link up with a local expert, that they will succeed or have fun trying.
I'll post updates here and this can be a user's manual for them as we run into challenges.
I've coordinated these kinds of things in the past and it's amazing how creative and inventive people can be surrounding an unusual or challenging project.
I'll keep y'all posted!
Btw I'm in northern Virginia so if anyone is local and wants to contact me or drop by when we kick this project off, please let me know!
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Thank you for your honest and thorough description and advice.
You are right, This is WAY over my head. I just looked on upwork.com and I've used that and similar sites to hire people in the past. I also posited an ad on CL volunteer section for someone with these skills. I'm going to tap into the other networks you mentioned and local schools/universities and any other suggestions you all have
My clients are gifted teens with autism spectrum and gender incongruence conditions and this type of project is something they can probably do or learn. Some of them do programming, robotics, etc., So I feel confident that if I supply the parts and link up with a local expert, that they will succeed or have fun trying.
I'll post updates here and this can be a user's manual for them as we run into challenges.
I've coordinated these kinds of things in the past and it's amazing how creative and inventive people can be surrounding an unusual or challenging project.
I'll keep y'all posted!
Btw I'm in northern Virginia so if anyone is local and wants to contact me or drop by when we kick this project off, please let me know!
I think some of the people on this forum have autism or asbergers Be sure to post lots of pictures I'm really excited to see how this comes out. Since it will have to be built in moduals maybe you can mail off bit to people on this forum and have them work on each bit: one person builds a power supply another a DTMF converter someone wires the raspberry pi someone else writes the code etc. That way you can get experts on here and you won't have to pay random people that don't know what they are doing.
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I don't see much difficulty at all with making this happen. All you need to do is supply power to the phone and the raspberry pi, tap into the audio right from the handset wires, and have the software on the pi handle everything. The electronics part shouldn't take more than a few minutes to complete.
The software side might be a little more difficult, but still not that hard. Makes me want to get another pay phone and do it myself. I don't think there's any software out there written specifically for what you're trying to do. Basically what you need is a pbx server that you don't actually dial into, because you're in as soon as you pick up the handset. You could trick it into thinking a call came in by triggering it when the handset is lifted and the pbx handles the rest. The pbx software will handle the dtmf decoding and move the user through all the menus that you create. Most will support music on hold, which you could use for playing back the mp3's, but I don't know of any that will let the user control a playlist. I do think this would be a good starting off point for you though. It may be possible to pass off control to another program that'll handle playlist control. But that's all a software thing, nothing electronic or mechanical about it.
Someone else mentioned using bluetooth to control the playlist. Please explain how (and more importantly WHY) that should be considered. I've been trying to think of any reason to use bluetooth at all and I'm coming up blank.
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I don't see much difficulty at all with making this happen. All you need to do is supply power to the phone and the raspberry pi, tap into the audio right from the handset wires, and have the software on the pi handle everything. The electronics part shouldn't take more than a few minutes to complete.
The software side might be a little more difficult, but still not that hard. Makes me want to get another pay phone and do it myself. I don't think there's any software out there written specifically for what you're trying to do. Basically what you need is a pbx server that you don't actually dial into, because you're in as soon as you pick up the handset. You could trick it into thinking a call came in by triggering it when the handset is lifted and the pbx handles the rest. The pbx software will handle the dtmf decoding and move the user through all the menus that you create. Most will support music on hold, which you could use for playing back the mp3's, but I don't know of any that will let the user control a playlist. I do think this would be a good starting off point for you though. It may be possible to pass off control to another program that'll handle playlist control. But that's all a software thing, nothing electronic or mechanical about it.
Someone else mentioned using bluetooth to control the playlist. Please explain how (and more importantly WHY) that should be considered. I've been trying to think of any reason to use bluetooth at all and I'm coming up blank.
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A few minutes?
The phones not going to be at logic level voltages. Also how is a new user supposed to know how to operate or what a pbx system is? The I/o pins can't just take tones into them as far as I know so what interface on the pi would you use? Learning to solder or taking the phone apart and learning how to use a multimeter all in a few minutes and learning the pi plus creating the SDcard and learning pbx software and learning a programming language to write new software that controls an mp3 player? I guess we have different definitions of "a few". When you say things like this to a "newbie" and they realize its not that simple it is really off putting. Doesn't the phone run off 60 volts? You are going to need to build a supply for the phone then build a converter so you don't blow up the pi then also modify/cut open a usb supply to run the pi, then get the handset to work both with the pi and the phone voltages. Either you are missing something or you are the fastest prototype builder in the world. If you do really have the skills to do this why not offer to have the parts shipped to you so you can help them? Setting up a pi for the first time takes more then a few minutes and also getting to programs to run on Linux isn't like windows plug and play. -
There is no need to connect to a PABX. The guts of the phone can be scrapped. The pi has stereo audio out, just a matter of connecting it up to a cheap 8ohm speaker in the handset etc.
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Yes, just a few minutes for the electronics portion of the project. Using the pi to handle the software (I just used a pbx as an example of a system that's already 90% of what needs to be done) the only things left to be done is supply power, and tap into the audio at the handset wires. There's absolutely no need to get into any other electronics inside the phone or deal with logic to make it work with the pi in the suggested way. Yes, the pi can decode the dtmf tones (they have audio input and output built in, no need to use I/O pins) and send commands to the software to make it do the requested task.I don't see much difficulty at all with making this happen. All you need to do is supply power to the phone and the raspberry pi, tap into the audio right from the handset wires, and have the software on the pi handle everything. The electronics part shouldn't take more than a few minutes to complete.
The software side might be a little more difficult, but still not that hard. Makes me want to get another pay phone and do it myself. I don't think there's any software out there written specifically for what you're trying to do. Basically what you need is a pbx server that you don't actually dial into, because you're in as soon as you pick up the handset. You could trick it into thinking a call came in by triggering it when the handset is lifted and the pbx handles the rest. The pbx software will handle the dtmf decoding and move the user through all the menus that you create. Most will support music on hold, which you could use for playing back the mp3's, but I don't know of any that will let the user control a playlist. I do think this would be a good starting off point for you though. It may be possible to pass off control to another program that'll handle playlist control. But that's all a software thing, nothing electronic or mechanical about it.
Someone else mentioned using bluetooth to control the playlist. Please explain how (and more importantly WHY) that should be considered. I've been trying to think of any reason to use bluetooth at all and I'm coming up blank.
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A few minutes?
The phones not going to be at logic level voltages. Also how is a new user supposed to know how to operate or what a pbx system is? The I/o pins can't just take tones into them as far as I know so what interface on the pi would you use? Learning to solder or taking the phone apart and learning how to use a multimeter all in a few minutes and learning the pi plus creating the SDcard and learning pbx software and learning a programming language to write new software that controls an mp3 player? I guess we have different definitions of "a few". When you say things like this to a "newbie" and they realize its not that simple it is really off putting. Doesn't the phone run off 60 volts? You are going to need to build a supply for the phone then build a converter so you don't blow up the pi then also modify/cut open a usb supply to run the pi, then get the handset to work both with the pi and the phone voltages. Either you are missing something or you are the fastest prototype builder in the world. If you do really have the skills to do this why not offer to have the parts shipped to you so you can help them? Setting up a pi for the first time takes more then a few minutes and also getting to programs to run on Linux isn't like windows plug and play.
The handset is just a microphone and a speaker. That's the only part of the phone that really needs to be touched. The speaker part of it doesn't even need to be connected to the phone, as all of the audio will be coming from the audio output of the pi.
I know I'm not covering every detail involved, but I'm not really missing much, if anything. I didn't nay the whole project would only take a few minutes, just the actual working with electronics part of it. The OP first needs to do some research on the power requirements of the phone before touching it. I'm sure there's thousands of much more complicated ways to achieve the same end result, but I believe mine requires the least amount of electronics experience, which I'm pretty sure was what the OP was looking for.
The software is where the real time is going to be spent. Learning programming languages is most likely not necessary, but always useful, and will make things easier. It may be possible to use already existing programs together to get everything done. One program listens to the user input, analyzes it, and passes a result to another program to perform another function. There may actually already be a fully made software solution out there, I wouldn't be surprised, but it might not be free. Look at dial-in services that have existed for years like moviefone. Once you're connected you use the keypad to navigate the voice menus. I don't know what software they use (do they even exist anymore?).
If you can find software like moviefone and simply supply correct power and splice into the audio you're pretty much done. Of course if you wanted to add other features (like triggering coin return if someone inserted money or making it ring) you would need to dig more into the electronics of the phone.
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There is no need to connect to a PABX. The guts of the phone can be scrapped. The pi has stereo audio out, just a matter of connecting it up to a cheap 8ohm speaker in the handset etc.
The guts CAN be scrapped, but everything is already there to have a working keypad, so it saves a lot of work by just keeping it there. I wasn't suggesting connecting the phone to an actual pbx through the wires, I was talking about the pi running a software solution with a menu system similar to the existing pbx software packages available. The software can turn the dtmf tones it receives through the pi's audio input and navigate the system, just as if you had dialed into a real pbx.
Are handset speakers 8ohm? For some reason I thought they were 32.
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Someone else mentioned using bluetooth to control the playlist. Please explain how (and more importantly WHY) that should be considered. I've been trying to think of any reason to use bluetooth at all and I'm coming up blank.
The owner of the phone could customize what happens when someone uses the phone. Custom messages or clips could be played for different people. A doctor could give a message to their client before they see them. -
I suggest the OP start a Kickstarter on this. He could request help on this forum to start it. I like this one.
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But that's already the reason for using the existing key pad. What would be the point of adding bluetooth? I see no reason to use it. The OP also stated they liked the idea of keeping the natural feel of the phone which pretty much rules out doing anything that I can imagine with bluetooth.Someone else mentioned using bluetooth to control the playlist. Please explain how (and more importantly WHY) that should be considered. I've been trying to think of any reason to use bluetooth at all and I'm coming up blank.
The owner of the phone could customize what happens when someone uses the phone. Custom messages or clips could be played for different people. A doctor could give a message to their client before they see them.
Also the OP is a self proclaimed 'non electronics person'. Suggesting the use of bluetooth adds a lot of complexity to a very easy solution.
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There is no need to connect to a PABX. The guts of the phone can be scrapped. The pi has stereo audio out, just a matter of connecting it up to a cheap 8ohm speaker in the handset etc.
The guts CAN be scrapped, but everything is already there to have a working keypad, so it saves a lot of work by just keeping it there. I wasn't suggesting connecting the phone to an actual pbx through the wires, I was talking about the pi running a software solution with a menu system similar to the existing pbx software packages available. The software can turn the dtmf tones it receives through the pi's audio input and navigate the system, just as if you had dialed into a real pbx.
Are handset speakers 8ohm? For some reason I thought they were 32.
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You realize the key pad doesn't put out the tones right?
Also the key pad is hooked up in a matrix where pressing a button doesn't just switch on a wire it makes combinations which have to be sorted out. I don't know where the pi would have separate audio out and audio in jacks that you could just plug into. It has one jack that's shared with something else like composite video. Accessing this might require a program through python. I found personally it was much easier to use the Arduino and C compiler to do things then the pi. Plus I think C is more useful if you are going to spend your effort and time.
I have a feeling you are at that stage in the hobby where you have learned a little and everything seems doable and easy. The next phase is finding out that things are much more complex then you thought and you realize that you have to focus on one area to excel at because there are only so many hours in a day and to figure out everything would take more then a four year degree. I had a guy working for me that was like this. The result was all kinds of stuff taken apart not put back together and a whole bunch of never to be finished projects. He would be super enthusiastic at first but then he would get to a hurdle and say fuck it this shits not going to work and give up.