EEVblog 1497 - RIP Fluke. Thanks Energizer. NOT.

[EEVblog]

RIP this Fluke 3000 wireless multimeter. Thanks Energizer for the battery leakage!



Energizer battery leakage in liquid form:

[Muttley Snickers]

I found the video quite disturbing and couldn't watch all of it, in fact it was like watching a horror movie.   

You could do us all a big favour by lodging a formal complaint to the battery manufacturer for compensation, make the whole thing public so they will have no option but to take notice and address these concerns once and for all.   

 

 

[ataradov]

I went to check my meters and the only one that just started leaking was Fluke. Also energizer batteries. No real damage, cleaned up and repaced with rechargeable batteries as I started doing that for all replacements.

This is the first time in my life I've got any battery leaking in the equipment. I've only seen them leak in storage for a VERY long time (5+ years over expiry date).

[blacksheeplogic]

Pretty sure I've been though all my old meters and removed the batteries but I think I will also recheck after seeing that.

Anything that does not fully power-off is susceptible to this problem. I spent a bit of time recently removing batteries from 40 calculators for the same reason- Energizers in one of the Casio Prizm's leaking.

[MikeK]

I checked mine and had to laugh.  The Energizer battery had leaked.  The two Radio Shack batteries were perfect.  All were at least 20 years old.

[coppercone2]

Hey thats probobly why my fluke scope meter plastic chassis disintegrated. I think when I first got it I must have cleaned leaked battery goo. It weakened the plastic and caused failure. I never could explain why that meter developed like 5-6 giant cracks on it. I guess that stuff eats plastic. (the boards were saved so I can make a medium sized battery scope from a small junction box or something one day, throw some D cells instead of C cells in that)


I thought it might be unsafe for its CAT rating once the plastic chassis is effected by that crap. With heavy damage can you still trust the 'blast protection'? And also it looks like Energizer has captured themselves a queen...

[golden_labels]

And suddenly we have a pandemic of Energizer batteries leaking in DMMs! What have you done?!

I wonder why I never seen a report of a 4.5V or a 9V alkaline battery leaking. Is that a statistical bias due to them being used less often? Can they contain leaks better, being composed of multiple separate cells and often having free space inside? I just hope that question will not cause a sudden worldwide failure of 4.5/9V batteries.

Liar. I do!

[Ed.Kloonk]

Hey thats probobly why my fluke scope meter plastic chassis disintegrated. I think when I first got it I must have cleaned leaked battery goo. It weakened the plastic and caused failure. I never could explain why that meter developed like 5-6 giant cracks on it. I guess that stuff eats plastic. (the boards were saved so I can make a medium sized battery scope from a small junction box or something one day, throw some D cells instead of C cells in that)


I thought it might be unsafe for its CAT rating once the plastic chassis is effected by that crap. With heavy damage can you still trust the 'blast protection'? And also it looks like Energizer has captured themselves a queen...

Having watched plenty of sci-fi horror filums, the culmination of nefarious AI, drones and now acid leaky power sources...

 

[wraper]

That's why I only use rechargeables after a second time batteries leaked in my Agilent U1272A. First time battery contacts have completely disintegrated and I needed to replace a whole back cover. Second time I noticed it faster thus there was not so much damage.

[wraper]

And suddenly we have a pandemic of Energizer batteries leaking in DMMs! What have you done?!

I wonder why I never seen a report of a 4.5V or a 9V alkaline battery leaking. Is that a statistical bias due to them being used less often? Can they contain leaks better, being composed of multiple separate cells and often having free space inside? I just hope that question will not cause a sudden worldwide failure of 4.5/9V batteries.

Liar. I do!

They do leak, although usually not that much as it's a stack of batteries enclosed in outer shell which prevents most of the liquid from leaking out. Still battery contacts often corrode.

[Kjelt]

I have started to take ALL batteries out from a device that I do not have to use more than once in a while.
Multimeter does not fall under that category and indeed my Fluke has Eneloop rechargeables in them for a while now.

Furthermore I replace all batteries of all remote controls (except the ones with Lithium coincells) on the 1st of January.
Had quite some discussion with the wife about "waisting money" , I think this vblog episode will convince her once and for all.

Very sad for you Dave, still thanks for the video.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Furthermore I replace all batteries of all remote controls (except the ones with Lithium coincells) on the 1st of January.

I have a habit of buying a army of the one thing when I find some device I can tolerate. Most of these gadgets come with batteries and often with a current interrupt to be removed when first activated. I have to still go into the packaging and excise all the batteries before putting the items in storage. Don't ask me how I know.

Very sad for you Dave, still thanks for the video.

Indeed. This type of content conjurors up so many tales of woe.

[wraper]

I have started to take ALL batteries out from a device that I do not have to use more than once in a while.
Multimeter does not fall under that category and indeed my Fluke has Eneloop rechargeables in them for a while now.

Furthermore I replace all batteries of all remote controls (except the ones with Lithium coincells) on the 1st of January.
Had quite some discussion with the wife about "waisting money" , I think this vblog episode will convince her once and for all.

Very sad for you Dave, still thanks for the video.

You could just get cheap eneloops like IKEA LADDA (Japanese made) for EUR 5 for a pack of 4 or Amazon basics (Chinese made). The same thing as Panasonic. They will pay for themselves in a few years maximum if you throw out batteries annually. Not to say it's much safer, Alkalines sometimes leak fresh in the package.

[MikeK]

I wonder why I never seen a report of a 4.5V or a 9V alkaline battery leaking. Is that a statistical bias due to them being used less often?

My Energizer alkaline 9V in my old analog multimeter was the one that was leaking.  Leaked out the top and through the side seam.

[golden_labels]

Furthermore I replace all batteries of all remote controls (except the ones with Lithium coincells) on the 1st of January.

I would replace those with Eneloops too. If you care about remotes, which are cheap, consider how much money you waste on primary batteries. Not to mention environmental cost.

[Messtechniker]

This Vid frightened the life out of me .

Immediately removed all batteries from all equipment not constantly in use.
Wanted to do this all along, but this really got me up and going.

Next will do pics for the lab door of all equipment still containg batteries.
So that my nephew can remove these batteries - especially those in my R&S UPGR -
as soon as he returns from my funeral, which hopefully is still a long way off.

[ataradov]

I went and checked other random low value stuff I have. And here is an example of a leaking 9V battery.

[coppercone2]

This Vid frightened the life out of me .

Immediately removed all batteries from all equipment not constantly in use.
Wanted to do this all along, but this really got me up and going.

Next will do pics for the lab door of all equipment still containg batteries.
So that my nephew can remove these batteries - especially those in my R&S UPGR -
as soon as he returns from my funeral, which hopefully is still a long way off.

calm down man, its usually minor. If you are paranoid check the voltage, if its greater then like 0.9V then you are probobly OK. Usually its badly discharged ones that leak for people who try to squeeze the last nanowatt out of them. hydrogen pressure increases as discharge increases and probability of leak increases (with exceptions but any part can really get destroyed by random chance). You can do the usual derating as we do with any part to increase reliability and decrease risk, but with voltages and also warentee age.

[spostma]

Would replacing Alkaline cells by good NiMH batteries (the ones specified for low self-discharge) help to avoid leakage?

[coppercone2]

I have seen NiMH cells leak but its a smaller amount then alkaline (but these were AAAs). I think they are just somewhat dryer inside. I have even seen eneloop that had some white crystal on the end.

[nikifena]

Hey Dave, give me that Fluke. I will try to fix it.

[djenson]

Posting here for the highest chance that you will see it.

Energizer® No Leaks. Guaranteed.

Energizer will repair or replace, at our option, any device damaged by leakage from Energizer MAX® Alkaline batteries either during the life of the battery or within two years following the full use of the battery.

https://www.energizer.com/about-batteries/battery-leakage

Would be interesting to see what they do

[MikeK]

I question the usefulness of the Energizer guarantee, other than as a marketing scheme.  As usual, the devil is in the details.  That guarantee is not forever, of course.  What qualifies as the life of the battery?  No doubt it is once it reaches some nominal low voltage, possibly 6V?...Maybe 7V?  All of the people discovering the leaked batteries are doing so because they completely forgot about them.  Battery voltage at that point is probably well below the "end of life" voltage.

[Black Phoenix]

Not only that, the warranty only applies to their Energizer Max line up, the ones that come with the a Fluke are their basic line-up.

But probably they would replace the Fluke because Dave is kinda know in the a Internet, and not replacing means bad PR. Although a user like me and you? You can go pound sand. In still waiting for the reply to my complain regarding when Duracell Procell AA blow up inside my 54-II back in 2011.

But I would also not be surprised if not even Dave got it replaced it or even a reply. Currently there are only 1 brand I have confidence on: Panasonic.

GP battery is in a somewhat close 2nd Place, Varts, Duracell and Energizer are all dead last. Lost enough stuff for that 3 brands to even not wanting to see them being sold.

[Per Hansson]

All of the people discovering the leaked batteries are doing so because they completely forgot about them.  Battery voltage at that point is probably well below the "end of life" voltage.

All of the people? Utter bullshit!
I have had alkaline batteries leak when they are still new in the original packaging and within their expiry date code!
I even think Dave might have had a video on that a few years ago.

[Tek_TDS220]

I think the Fluke cases are attacked by strong base because they are polycarbonate (or a blend with polycarbonate).  Polycarbonate has higher impact resistance but is more expensive.  Most multimeter cases are made from polyolefins.  It is less expensive, melts more easily, and is not attacked by base.

[grouchobyte]

https://www.energizer.com/about-batteries/battery-leakage

Not worth the trouble to claim leak damage to Energizer IMHO. I would just trash the meter and never keep alkalines for long periods of time installed in instruments or things of value. Personally, I use leak-resistant, long shelf life primary  lithiums in my stuff. Ya it cost more but then again…..pay now or pay later

@grouchobyte

[ataradov]

The only reason is for content. Just to see what they will do and how they will try to weasel their way out of it.

The batteries clearly leak, even new ones, so they must have a robust system of denying claims.

[grouchobyte]

The only reason is for content. Just to see what they will do and how they will try to weasel their way out of it.

The batteries clearly leak, even new ones, so they must have a robust system of denying claims.

Yes Alex

Of course, you are correct, Energizer will deny its clearly their faulty, low quality product or quality control.
I am dubious of all alkaline battery mfg’rs. In 60+ years of experience going back to the 1950’s I have witnessed tremendous advances in batteries, even Alkalines. However, one thing is consistent. alkalines leak eventually. That is why I avoid them whenever possible and seek better alternatives when appropriate

Bob

[golden_labels]

Not worth the trouble to claim leak damage to Energizer IMHO. I would just trash the meter and never keep alkalines for long periods of time installed in instruments or things of value.

It’s not about financial worth. Obviously the expected outcome is negative. Even if not for Dave, it is for average person. This is why manufacturers may safely make such claims. Dave also have entire boxes of multimeters, so I doubt it’s even a serious loss.

The point is different: it’s opposition to something that may be a deceptive marketing strategy. We already know that “no-leak” alkaline batteries leak and the extent of damage of that is as large as with other models. So you do not receive the advertised product. How much the advertising is misleading is hard to estimate. The leaks may be exceptional cases (nothing is perfect), in which situation it is an acceptable simplifying of the image, but they may as well be an open lie with Energizer batteries not being better than the cheapest nonames. I have no data. But in absence of it, the safest assumption is something in the middle. And that is worth of a reaction.

Since Dave is a YouTuber, he may also do that for entertainment: both his and ours. And to lessen tension: if you see you are not the only one who receives absurd responses and facepalms, it really has a therapeutic value.


As for practical aspects and expectations, I wonder where is all the fine print. In the plain sight we already have “devices may be replaced with a product of comparable market value at the time of claim.” Read as: device age is taken into account and I bet they will use exponential value decay. Since Dave opened the DMM and cleaned it, that is an open gate to say it doesn’t work because of his actions.

[blacksheeplogic]

I think the Fluke cases are attacked by strong base because they are polycarbonate (or a blend with polycarbonate).  Polycarbonate has higher impact resistance but is more expensive.  Most multimeter cases are made from polyolefins.  It is less expensive, melts more easily, and is not attacked by base.

I wonder if Fluke has tweaked the yellow plastic on that meter. The Yellow surround on my 28II has developed a white powder and has started to break down around the meter with sticky yellow plastic residue clinging to the meter, not too dissimilar to the way it had broken down on the video. The Alkaline may have just speed up the process.

[HobGoblyn]

Oddly, I haven’t had a battery leak for years (decades even), about 3 weeks ago a cheapo led torch that takes 3 AA batteries started playing up.

When I saw the amount of leakage inside, I simply threw it away.

These were also Energiser batteries

[EEVblog]

Posting here for the highest chance that you will see it.

Energizer® No Leaks. Guaranteed.
Energizer will repair or replace, at our option, any device damaged by leakage from Energizer MAX® Alkaline batteries either during the life of the battery or within two years following the full use of the battery.

https://www.energizer.com/about-batteries/battery-leakage
Would be interesting to see what they do

Thats' only the Max version.

[Muttley Snickers]

I think their guarantee conditions are region specific as Halcyon pointed out at reply #6 in this thread.

[Fungus]

Why didn't you remove the back case of the meter to clean it instead of washing all the gunk down into the electronics with IPA???

[james_s]

Why do people still use alkaline batteries in expensive equipment? I've been using Eneloop and a few other brands of LSD NiMH for more than a decade and I have yet to experience a leak.

[james_s]

https://www.energizer.com/about-batteries/battery-leakage

Not worth the trouble to claim leak damage to Energizer IMHO. I would just trash the meter and never keep alkalines for long periods of time installed in instruments or things of value. Personally, I use leak-resistant, long shelf life primary  lithiums in my stuff. Ya it cost more but then again…..pay now or pay later

@grouchobyte

It's absolutely worth the trouble, that meter costs a few hundred bucks.

Even if you got nothing out of doing it, it's still worth putting in a claim in order to cost the company making crappy batteries something.

[thm_w]

Why do people still use alkaline batteries in expensive equipment? I've been using Eneloop and a few other brands of LSD NiMH for more than a decade and I have yet to experience a leak.

People think its not convenient to use rechargeables. That or the higher up front cost turns them off.

Then there is the whole other idea that most here seem to agree on, where a rechargeable multimeter is somehow blasphemy because you might go to use the meter and the battery is dead then you'll be stuck! oh no...

[ataradov]

Initially my personal switch to rechargeable batteries was slow due to their high self discharge rate. But this is not a problem anymore, they last a long time.

[Fungus]

Initially my personal switch to rechargeable batteries was slow due to their high self discharge rate. But this is not a problem anymore, they last a long time.

Another problem is 9V rechargeables, their capacity is very small.

I put one of these in my Brymen, the capacity is only 175mAh.

[Black Phoenix]

When is 9V batteries I prefer to use Lithium. Just install and forget. But for AAs and AAAs I always go Rechargeable, specially Eneloops.

I also have another pack ready in case they go flat, but since they keep their charge for a lot of time it's a non issue to have them ready for change.

Although I would prefer if Panasonic had 9V Eneloops available for sale, but probably the market study doesn't warrant such investment.

[james_s]

People think its not convenient to use rechargeables. That or the higher up front cost turns them off.

Then there is the whole other idea that most here seem to agree on, where a rechargeable multimeter is somehow blasphemy because you might go to use the meter and the battery is dead then you'll be stuck! oh no...

If the rechargeable battery is dead I swap it for a different one, or in a pinch I can pop a regular alkaline or carbon zinc battery in there. Total non-issue.

[james_s]

Another problem is 9V rechargeables, their capacity is very small.

I put one of these in my Brymen, the capacity is only 175mAh.

So what? I get about 6 months out of one in my meter. When the low battery indication comes on I swap it out for another. LSD "9V" rechargeable batteries have been around for at least a decade now, they're not even very expensive. I think the ones I use are 200mAh.

[Fungus]

So what? I get about 6 months out of one in my meter. When the low battery indication comes on I swap it out for another. LSD "9V" rechargeable batteries have been around for at least a decade now, they're not even very expensive. I think the ones I use are 200mAh.

I'm waiting to see how long mine goes for. They don't take long to charge, it's more the hassle of getting inside the meter.

[golden_labels]

I wonder what makes 9V rechargeables having such a low capacity. For example Energizer’s alkaline 9V offer ~60h operation at CC 10mA discharge, 3–5h at 100mA. That’s equivalent of 300–600 mAh. The best rechargeables I can find are 250 mAh only. Considering that alkaline 9V is just a stack of six 1.5V cells, that can’t be an issue with better packing capability. Unless rechargeable 9V manufacturers are literally packing six LR61 inside.

[rteodor]

I used a lot of AA and AAA, sometimes more than 50 per year.
Most of them leak after some time that is usually proportional with the price.
The most disappointing brand was Duracell. It leaked in a clock, several lamps and a remote.

Currently I am settled on Varta. Never had one of those leak. (And I sincerely hope that the new fashionist packaging designs are not a bad sign.)

That is why when 121GW arrived I just set the Duracell aside and put Varta in.

[mcinque]

Currently I am settled on Varta. Never had one of those leak. (And I sincerely hope that the new fashionist packaging designs are not a bad sign.)

Varta leaks too. EVERY alkaline leak instead of brand, it's just a matter of time and luck.
Stop believing a specific brand is safe, 1 every 3 or 4 alkaline will leak for sure.
"never had a leak with XXX" it's like "I never used helmet on the motorbike and I'm never had troubles."

[thm_w]

I wonder what makes 9V rechargeables having such a low capacity. For example Energizer’s alkaline 9V offer ~60h operation at CC 10mA discharge, 3–5h at 100mA. That’s equivalent of 300–600 mAh. The best rechargeables I can find are 250 mAh only. Considering that alkaline 9V is just a stack of six 1.5V cells, that can’t be an issue with better packing capability. Unless rechargeable 9V manufacturers are literally packing six LR61 inside.

9V is either a stack of flat cells or 6x AAAA (LR61) as you say.
It looks like 400-450mAh AAAA's are available. So why they don't use them, no idea.

Some tests here: https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries9V/Common9VIndividualTest%20UK.html
related discussion: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/looking-for-6f22-(9v)-3s-(not-2s)-lifepo4-batteries-(need-9-6v-nominal)/
The rechargeable lithium 9V are very good, just a bit of a hassle to charge unless you get ones with built in USB.

[james_s]

Varta leaks too. EVERY alkaline leak instead of brand, it's just a matter of time and luck.
Stop believing a specific brand is safe, 1 every 3 or 4 alkaline will leak for sure.
"never had a leak with XXX" it's like "I never used helmet on the motorbike and I'm never had troubles."

While I'm sure it's true that it is largely time and luck, I've had too many Duracell batteries leak while others such as Panasonic have never leaked on me for it to be a coincidence, Just the other night I found some badly leaking Duracell AAA batteries in a TV remote at a friend's place, they said best by 2025 on them. On multiple occasions I've seen Duracell leaking still in the retail package. Same with Kirkland brand which I've heard may be made by Duracell. Other brands may not be perfect but Duracell is crap.

[Fungus]

Unless rechargeable 9V manufacturers are literally packing six LR61 inside.

Yes, they are. There's a lot of wasted space.



(Image from https://lygte-info.dk/info/BatteryDisassembly9VAlkaline%20UK.html )

The rechargeable lithium 9V are very good, just a bit of a hassle to charge unless you get ones with built in USB.

Do you trust your multimeter to a cheap Chinese LiPo?

[mcinque]

Other brands may not be perfect but Duracell is crap.

Yes, Duracells have become crap in recent years, you can bet they will leak. But I have no confidence in alkalines. Mostly because someone explained to me the chemical issue that develops gas and pressure. And sooner or later, under pressure out of 4 stylus one gives up 

[thm_w]

Do you trust your multimeter to a cheap Chinese LiPo?

More than alkaline, yeah.

http://www.soshine.com.cn/a57.aspx

[golden_labels]

Yes, they are. There's a lot of wasted space.

The image you have posted comes from an article about disassembling alkaline 9v batteries. There is no mention of rechargeables in this article. Even if it was about rechargeables, it would contradict your words: about half of the tested batteries were stacks of F22 cells.

[wilfred]

I read this on the Panasonic site about why alkaline batteries leak. It's short and simple and not technical suitable for regular consumers.
https://www.panasonic-batteries.com/en/news/battery-leakage-causes-and-prevention

The solution is not buying only expensive batteries, or the ones you have never had leak before. It is routinely checking you don't leave batteries in devices left unused for a long time.

As long as they use similar chemistry they will all give of gas and blow the seals eventually.

The real question for me is what makes a cheap battery cheap. I would think the "cheap" that is relevant is anything before they are packaged. Because retail mark-ups and distribution costs shouldn't really matter. So if a battery costs 10x (just a guess) more to buy in a shop than it does when it rolls off the production line surely we're talking small percentage differences if the final price variation in retail price is dependent in variations in the much smaller production cost. Unless there is a correlation between Brand and quality which I don't think is clear if I or anyone else just says brand X doesn't leak because I've never experienced it. Age of the consumer could be a factor in that case. And the number of batteries they use as well as the number of devices left unused for long periods.

I have an elderly Aunt who, like many, leaves batteries in things until the thing doesn't work. COVID has meant I haven't visited in the last 2 years and I'll be sure and sweep the house and check everything has fresh batteries. And since she lives in the country where power outages are not uncommon I put lithiums in her torch and radio. Because I think they are less likely to fail in an emergency.

[james_s]

Do you trust your multimeter to a cheap Chinese LiPo?

More than alkaline, yeah.

http://www.soshine.com.cn/a57.aspx

I have loads of cheap Chinese LiPo cells and while some of them suck in terms of performance, I've never once had one fail in a way that damaged anything else. If anything bad does happen it's probably going to happen while it's charging and a little 9V battery isn't going to have enough potential energy to make the big fireball you can get with some larger cells.

[Fungus]

The image you have posted comes from an article about disassembling alkaline 9v batteries. There is no mention of rechargeables in this article. Even if it was about rechargeables, it would contradict your words: about half of the tested batteries were stacks of F22 cells.

Ten seconds in google will come up with an example of recargeable batteries that aren't stacks.

eg.

https://youtu.be/Q11yRODOBtU?t=246

[Fungus]

Do you trust your multimeter to a cheap Chinese LiPo?

More than alkaline, yeah.

That's not saying much.

Big Clive did a video on one:



Maybe not too bad but I'll see how my NiMH goes...

[golden_labels]

Ten seconds in google will come up with an example of recargeable batteries that aren't stacks.

Of course it will return those, because they exist. If you do not understand, what is wrong with your answers: see the difference between ∃ (existential quantifier) and ∀ (universal quantifier), and how is negation applied to both. The situation — as expressed in natural language — is not binary, but the error is of the same nature.

[Fungus]

]If you do not understand, what is wrong with your answers: see the difference between ∃ (existential quantifier) and ∀ (universal quantifier), and how is negation applied to both. The situation — as expressed in natural language — is not binary, but the error is of the same nature.

The best thing to do would be to post a picture of a rechargeable 9V NiMH where there isn't a lot of wasted space, eg. a single large NiMH cell with a voltage booster, like they do with the LiPos.

FWIW, here's one that's a stack. It still looks like a lot of wasted space to me:

[james_s]

Even if it was about rechargeables, it would contradict your words: about half of the tested batteries were stacks of F22 cells.

Maybe so, but when I wanted some rechargeable AAAA cells for a BT earpiece years ago, I disassembled a random NiMH 9V battery that had one of the terminals fall off and I got 6 of exactly what I was looking for. I've xrayed several types and found some with a stack of cells and others with a cluster of AAAA cells.

[Mechatrommer]

store your meter face up... https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/gossen-metrahit-x-tra-m240a-dead-battery-leak-repair-help/?topicscreen

Big Clive did a video on one:

Maybe not too bad but I'll see how my NiMH goes...

i bought such 9V rechargable (random china brand i guess) few years ago, it self discharge within only few weeks. i dont use it, but when i pull it out of drawer, its pure flat, need constant recharging and now i'm not sure where i've put it. if you know a brand that can at least self discharge within a year or more, i'll want one.

all devices incl DMM should move away from alkaline at this age imho, 18650 is almost everywhere nowadays with plenty of power and energy. need 9V? use boost convertor! figure out the most efficient one! thats your butter and bread! i dont know why they still keep old mentality of using non-rechargable AA or AAA, the 9V one is even worse beyond rational thinking

[alm]

Alkaline and NiMH cells can be shipped without any additional paperwork. Nobody says you can't use primary lithium or NiMH cells.

Are user-replaceable 18650 cells common in professional tools? From what I see it's either expensive custom battery packs or internal batteries. And the latter have the disadvantage of the meter being unavailable while charging and limited lifespan.

[Fungus]

i bought such 9V rechargable (random china brand i guess) few years ago, it self discharge within only few weeks. i dont use it, but when i pull it out of drawer, its pure flat, need constant recharging and now i'm not sure where i've put it. if you know a brand that can at least self discharge within a year or more, i'll want one.

My Energizer 9V rechargeable seems to be doing OK. It's been six or seven months and the battery indicator still hasn't come on.

Will it make it to the end of the year? 

[thm_w]

i bought such 9V rechargable (random china brand i guess) few years ago, it self discharge within only few weeks. i dont use it, but when i pull it out of drawer, its pure flat, need constant recharging and now i'm not sure where i've put it. if you know a brand that can at least self discharge within a year or more, i'll want one.

all devices incl DMM should move away from alkaline at this age imho, 18650 is almost everywhere nowadays with plenty of power and energy. need 9V? use boost convertor! figure out the most efficient one! thats your butter and bread! i dont know why they still keep old mentality of using non-rechargable AA or AAA, the 9V one is even worse beyond rational thinking

Sure, the soshine ones I linked lasted a year easily.
The tradeoff is: you don't have a simple USB plug so its a bit harder to charge, and output voltage isnt pegged at 9V with a boost converter.

Agree on your second point.

[wraper]

all devices incl DMM should move away from alkaline at this age imho, 18650 is almost everywhere nowadays with plenty of power and energy. need 9V? use boost convertor! figure out the most efficient one! thats your butter and bread! i dont know why they still keep old mentality of using non-rechargable AA or AAA, the 9V one is even worse beyond rational thinking

18650 is not a type of battery intended to be accessed by user. All of those flashlight and vapes manufacturers are basically hacking a battery cell intended to be used in protected packs to be carried by consumers directly. They are not safe enough to be carried around just like that.

[Mechatrommer]

duh then i have a bunch of ticking bomb inside my lab sometime i repaired some laptop, camera battery, vaccum cleaner etc that have old/degraded 18650 in them with new batteries i bought from a local seller who stripped and "untab spot welded" batteries from i dont know which devices, i guess from some "factory reject" laptop battery pack too. he's quite technical and provide battery capacity that he tested himself with his tool and warn buyers its only for diy type person only. then the old batteries that i removed still have some juice in them that i can reuse in flashlight and other smaller devices that are not high current demand. but protected (current limited) 18650 also available sold separately everywhere (usually with protruding +ve tab, i think they are meant to be handled by normal users for low current demand devices incl such as DMM, except a bit more expensive than the unprotected type that i bought. ps: reminds me of a new member in another thread who have issue fixing his oral-b toothbrush by replacing nimh battery

My Energizer 9V rechargeable seems to be doing OK. It's been six or seven months and the battery indicator still hasn't come on.

thats what happened to my 9V rechargeable. if i press battery indicator button, its blank indicating totally flat battery after recharge, full 3 bars green indicator lit.

[Fungus]

My Energizer 9V rechargeable seems to be doing OK. It's been six or seven months and the battery indicator still hasn't come on.

Will it make it to the end of the year? 

Answer: Nope. I just turned it on and the battery indicator was lit up.

I installed in in February so that's about 7 months of light usage. I'm not hammering on the meter all day long.

I wouldn't like to say if it's the usage or the self-discharge that finished it off. Probably a mix of both.