"LED's" or "Lead's" boxes or -/\/\/\-

[raspberrypi]

Is this a uk vs american thing? Leads versus saying L,E,Ds? A kid in my third grade class would call them "leads" and piss me off because he thought he was smarter then me. Mrs. Johnson and her third grade class knew otherwise.

But eevblog Dave, bigclive.com and other east hemisphere, crazy right hand drivers draw their resisters as boxes. Drives me nut because I was always taught that boxes were for odd ball parts and resisters were -\/\/\- zigzags. ITS AN L-E-D AND A ZIGZAG GOD DAMN IT!!!!! 



(the 's were fixed. I type faster then I think.)

[NottheDan]

1930 called and wants it zigzags back.

[Richard Crowley]

The boxes vs. zig-zag lines is a European vs. US thing.
On one hand the open box allows you to print the value (and/or designator) inside the box.
OTOH, they seem to have several different components that all use a rectangle like that, so it is sometimes ambiguous.

Apparently pronouncing the acronym for Light Emitting Diode as "lead" is more common in non-English speaking circles.
In English context, it is indistinguishable from the word for the heavy metal, so many people prefer to pronounce it: "L-E-D"
Of course, if you are watching a YouTube video about the light-emitting components, there should be no ambiguity.

[IanB]

Is this a uk vs american thing? Lead's versus saying L,E,D's? A kid in my third grade class would call them "lead's" and piss me off because he thought he was smarter then me. Mrs. Johnson and her third grade class knew otherwise.

But eevblog Dave, bigclive.com and other east hemisphere, crazy right hand drivers draw their resisters as boxes. Drives me nut because I was always taught that boxes were for odd ball parts and resisters were -\/\/\- zigzags. ITS AN L-E-D AND A ZIGZAG GOD DAMN IT!!!!! 

You are allowed to choose. It is a matter of personal preference (fashion, if you like). My cultural background is Britain, and I prefer to say L-E-D. It's easy enough to say and I see no reason to abbreviate it to "led".

Likewise, I grew up with resistors being drawn as zig-zag lines. That's how everyone did it back in the old days. Today I still draw them that way if I am sketching a circuit because it is easier to draw them that way by hand. Everyone recognizes what the symbol means, so what's the big deal?

In short, live and let live, and don't fuss. Or I'll start asking you about the correct way to pronounce advertisement.

[DmitryL]

Is this a uk vs american thing? Lead's versus saying L,E,D's? A kid in my third grade class would call them "lead's" and piss me off because he thought he was smarter then me. Mrs. Johnson and her third grade class knew otherwise.

Hmm.. On the subject of glass house and stones...
Is it just a rednecky thing to use apostrophe where it shouldn't be?
As far as I'm aware, every more or less literate kid knows that "LED's"  means:
- posesive case, e.g. "This is an LED's pin" -> "This pin belongs to LED"
- "LED is" or "LED has" e.g. "LED's dead", "LED's died"

While "LEDs" represents a plural form of "LED". I.e. "I have a lot of LEDs in my box"

[Halcyon]

Hmm.. On the subject of glass house and stones...
Is it just a rednecky thing to use apostrophe where it shouldn't be?

That annoys me too! A good rule of thumb is if you replace the apostrophe with the word "is" and it doesn't make sense or you're not using it to show possession, then it doesn't belong (exceptions apply).

[timb]

Resistors in IEC standard are drawn as a box, no matter it is a commonwealth country or other countries adopting IEC symbols.
L.E.D. vs lead is as pointless as S.Q.L. vs sequel, or N.A.S.A. vs nesa/nasa.
If you are pissed off by a 9 year old kid just because he doesn't call it exactly the way you do, you better find another job before you taught these kids to be dictators like you.

It's Microsoft Sequel and Postgres Ess Que El.

Anyone who actually says the individual letters ("N A S A") instead of saying just NASA is a tool. (My grandfather worked at NASA Langley for 25 years, everybody there called it NASA.)

[rrinker]

 NASA with letters is the car people, NASA pronounced is the space agency.

I still draw my resistors as squiggles when hand drawing circuits. Loops for inductors. I say the letters LED, if I hear "lead" I am expecting to hear "zeppelin" after it.

[Brumby]

I still draw my resistors as squiggles when hand drawing circuits. Loops for inductors.

Same

I say the letters LED, if I hear "lead" I am expecting to hear "zeppelin" after it.

... or 'flashing' (building material), shielding (radiology), pipe (plumbing), weight (fishing - or that goldbrick in the office) ...

but I like your option better.

[Alex Eisenhut]

Hmm.. On the subject of glass house and stones...
Is it just a rednecky thing to use apostrophe where it shouldn't be?

That annoys me too! A good rule of thumb is if you replace the apostrophe with the word "is" and it doesn't make sense or you're not using it to show possession, then it doesn't belong (exceptions apply).

Or it's vs. it is.

[sleemanj]

Language is weird, we all have our preferences, for me it's

L.E.D
S.Q.L
B.J.T

but...

Fet
J.Fet
Mos.Fet
J.Peg
Gif (not Jif)

And I use zig zag resistors. 

[Halcyon]

It's Microsoft Sequel and Postgres Ess Que El.

Please don't start that argument ;-) It will end in tears/bloodshed.

I will admit though that "sequel" makes me cringe because of a complete douchebag boss I had years ago who said it constantly. So for me it's "S-Q-L".

Also, it's "S-A-P" not "Sap". ;-)

[Zero999]

The boxes vs. zig-zag lines is a European vs. US thing.
On one hand the open box allows you to print the value (and/or designator) inside the box.
OTOH, they seem to have several different components that all use a rectangle like that, so it is sometimes ambiguous.

One of the problem with zig-zags is they can be ambiguous on hastily hand draw schematic: they can be confused with inductors.

It's not a problem on printed schematics though.

[steve30]

I was taught to use boxes for resistors and that's what I normally use. But I'm not fussed what other people use. My only problem is that a badly drawn zigzag resistor can look like a badly drawn inductor and vice versa.

As for led vs L.E.D., I tend to say which ever springs to mind first.

[eugenenine]

Its the inconsistency of the English language.  NASA with two vowels separated by a single non-vowel should, be the long a so it should be pronounces naasa but its an exception to the rule and pronounces as the short nassa.

I used to drive my English teacher crazy asking about all the exceptions to the rules.  But with all the exceptions it was harder to write a program to do your work.

Could be worse though, at least you don't have to listen to everyone who went to Walmarts.  "ohh you went to more than one, why not get what you needed at the first one?"

[mc172]

It's Microsoft Sequel and Postgres Ess Que El.

That'd be "queue", wouldn't it?

[timb]

It's Microsoft Sequel and Postgres Ess Que El.

That'd be "queue", wouldn't it?

Touché.

[Ysjoelfir]

I personally prefer a mixture of US and IEC symbols, even though my teachers at university tend to kill me when I draw the resistors with the zigzag line and inductors with the black box.. I do this mainly because I tend to have bad drawing skills, meaning, a square resistor wouldn`t be a square but more like some sort of smashed, mushy thing which could be identified as either a resistor, an inductor or even a fuse. So I write the zigzag line to tell "that is a resistor" and use the box for inductors - because the loop-inductor can be quite simmilar to a badly drawn zigzag-resistor...
What I really hate is the difference between all those logic gates, I can`t really focus on one way to draw them, switching between styles whenever i feel like doing so...
Regarding the LED-Thing: I prefer L-E-D. I also prefer to say Serial ATA and not Sata(n).

[CJay]

I quite like the Elektor house style (which is I think generally IEC) for schematic symbols and tend to hand draw my own schematics with them but separate out logic elements to the American style just because they make sense to me at a glance as I was taught those as a teenager.

I'm sure many people will be cringing but they're my schematics and I don't generally share them unless I've used a CAD program to make them human readable 

[PointyOintment]

I switch back and forth between boxes and zigzags, depending on which one I find easier to draw that day.

LED: "ell ee dee"
SQL: "sequel"
NASA: "nassa" (never heard anything else)
queue: "kweew" (think about it—you won't go back)
GIF: with a hard G
SATA: to rhyme with NASA
pasta: "pass-ta", not "poss-ta" like the Americans say

I personally prefer a mixture of US and IEC symbols, even though my teachers at university tend to kill me when I draw the resistors with the zigzag line and inductors with the black box.. […] So I write the zigzag line to tell "that is a resistor" and use the box for inductors

Box inductor symbol? I don't think I've seen it, and Google isn't helping.

[rolycat]

queue: "kweew" (think about it—you won't go back)

I thought about it, and felt nauseous. Your pronunciation even sounds like the noise you make when you smell something nasty 

SATA: to rhyme with NASA

Wouldn't it be better to rhyme it with 'patter'?

pasta: "pass-ta", not "poss-ta" like the Americans say

I personally prefer a mixture of US and IEC symbols, even though my teachers at university tend to kill me when I draw the resistors with the zigzag line and inductors with the black box.. […] So I write the zigzag line to tell "that is a resistor" and use the box for inductors

Box inductor symbol? I don't think I've seen it, and Google isn't helping.

International symbol, according to Sparkfun's handy guide.

[AlxDroidDev]

LED: "ell ee dee"
SQL: "sequel"
NASA: "nassa" (never heard anything else)
queue: "kweew" (think about it—you won't go back)
GIF: with a hard G
SATA: to rhyme with NASA
pasta: "pass-ta", not "poss-ta" like the Americans say

You forgot one:

    SCSI = "scuzzy"

    on the other hand, IDE = "eye dee ee"

[eugenenine]

LED: "ell ee dee"
SQL: "sequel"
NASA: "nassa" (never heard anything else)
queue: "kweew" (think about it—you won't go back)
GIF: with a hard G
SATA: to rhyme with NASA
pasta: "pass-ta", not "poss-ta" like the Americans say

You forgot one:

    SCSI = "scuzzy"

    on the other hand, IDE = "eye dee ee"

and daata and datta

[JPortici]

i pronounce "lead" in my language, which is how i would naturally say LED. Otherwise i should say "Elle - E - Dì" which is not practical at all.
However, L-E-Ds when i speak english.
BJT,MOSFET,.. that's wasy. it's exactly the same!

Explain to the kid that's not correct as it's an acronym. he'll eventually understand the value of doing things correctly... or not

[CJay]

Sodder and solder.

To a British English speaker, well, it's either a regional contraction of Sod Her or, yeah, let's not go there on an electronics forum

[Richard Crowley]

Sodder and solder.

Or perhaps more correctly:

sodder  (AmEnglish)
soulder (BrEnglish)

same as  aluminum vs. aluminuminiminum

[Halcyon]

Sodder and solder.

Or perhaps more correctly:

sodder  (AmEnglish)
soulder (BrEnglish)

same as  aluminum vs. aluminuminiminum

Or color and colour. Why have extra letters when near enough is good enough? Spelling is hard. 

[IanB]

Yup. Near enuf is certainly good enuf 

[AlxDroidDev]

Or color and colour. Why have extra letters when near enough is good enough? Spelling is hard. 

It's so hard they have spelling competitions!!! IDK if it is a US-only event or if spelling bees are held in every English speaking country.



Being someone who doesn't have English as my first language, there are a few annoyances in it, specially when (A) 2 words with identical spelling can different sounds, or (B) words with different spellings can have the same sound (aka "homophones"). Examples:

(A) Lead (verb) and Lead (the metal Pb)

(B) Stationary (as in "not moving") and Stationery (like office supplies)
      Brake and Break

the list goes on. Two words, however, that are a killer for anyone learning English, are "beach" and "bitch". For most non-English it is pretty hard to tell the difference, let alone say them so people can tell the difference! It took me quite some time to be able to do both!

[IanB]

I have heard that beach and bitch might be especially hard for speakers of Latin languages like Spanish and Portuguese. I assume those languages do not have a separate vowels for "ee" (keep, seep, weep, deep) and "i" (bit, hit, lit, fit)?

[CJay]

Sodder and solder.

Or perhaps more correctly:

sodder  (AmEnglish)
soulder (BrEnglish)

same as  aluminum vs. aluminuminiminum

Nope, it's definitely Solder here up in the frozen north of the UK  

[Zero999]

Or color and colour. Why have extra letters when near enough is good enough? Spelling is hard. 

Yes, y hav xtra leters wen ner enuf is gud enuf?

[AlxDroidDev]

I have heard that beach and bitch might be especially hard for speakers of Latin languages like Spanish and Portuguese. I assume those languages do not have a separate vowels for "ee" (keep, seep, weep, deep) and "i" (bit, hit, lit, fit)?

It's different. In Portuguese we use accents to change how the vowel sounds, so just by reading the word one knows its correct pronunciation. One spelling corresponds to one pronunciation. There are no 1-to-2 or 2-to-1 correspondence in spelling to pronunciation.

E and I, however, sound entirely different from English.

E sounds like the vowel in "say", "hey". Always!
É sounds like the vowel in "hat", "mat", "sad". Always!

I sounds like "keep", "sheet". Always!
Í sounds like "hit", fit, lit. Always!

That makes it a little easier for learners, because the pronunciation doesn't change according to context (like example "A" in my previous post). However, I find English a lot easier to learn than Portuguese, but mostly because of the verbs. Latin languages are quite complicated when it comes to verbal tenses.

[mtdoc]

Two words, however, that are a killer for anyone learning English, are "beach" and "bitch". For most non-English it is pretty hard to tell the difference, let alone say them so people can tell the difference!

I think this example, like many others across different languages has a lot to do with exposure - or hearing - the language spoken regularly during the "critical period" of  language development in the brain during early childhood.  The brain is basically developmentally programmed to learn language during a few key years in early childhood.  Even if one never has reason to speak another language (other than their native language) during those key years, by hearing it spoken regularly during that time period they will have an easier time later in life learning that language and in particularly distinguishing between subtle phoneme differences that are not used in their native language.  I think this also makes it easier for someone to learn to speak the language without much accent later in life.

I know for me - as hard as I may try, I cannot distinguish between certain Asian language phonemes.  No matter how hard I try, I cannot "hear" the differences

I found it interesting that years ago when I spent quite a bit of time in Spain and Portugal that their was a key difference in how much of an accent those fluent in English had.  Because most television programming came from English speaking countries, most TV in Spain was dubbed into Spanish while most in Portugal was left in English but with Portuguese subtitles.   The result was the Portuguese often has less of an accent than the Spaniards when speaking English - since they had grown up listening to TV in English.

[NottheDan]

NASA: "nassa" (never heard anything else)

Longer first "A" please, because with NASSA I always have to think of The Old Negro Space Program.

[Artlav]

Why use an acronym at all?
Just call it lightodiode/light diode/diode light/diolight/something, the same way you do vacuum cleaners, spaceships, railroads, microwavers, websites and so on.

[eugenenine]

Why use an acronym at all?
Just call it lightodiode/light diode/diode light/diolight/something, the same way you do vacuum cleaners, spaceships, railroads, microwavers, websites and so on.

because then you can't make jokes like

M. N. O. L. E. Ds

M. R. 2 L.E.D's

L. I'll B, M. R. L.E.D's

[IanB]

It's different. In Portuguese we use accents to change how the vowel sounds, so just by reading the word one knows its correct pronunciation. One spelling corresponds to one pronunciation. There are no 1-to-2 or 2-to-1 correspondence in spelling to pronunciation.

E and I, however, sound entirely different from English.

E sounds like the vowel in "say", "hey". Always!
É sounds like the vowel in "hat", "mat", "sad". Always!

I sounds like "keep", "sheet". Always!
Í sounds like "hit", fit, lit. Always!

That makes it a little easier for learners, because the pronunciation doesn't change according to context (like example "A" in my previous post). However, I find English a lot easier to learn than Portuguese, but mostly because of the verbs. Latin languages are quite complicated when it comes to verbal tenses.

Ah, I did a quick check. According to Wikipedia, Portuguese phonology is quite rich, and there are also significant differences between European Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese. So probably most English vowel sounds are found somewhere in Portuguese.

One thing to mention is that in English a long "i" sound is different from an "ee" sound. If you say "bitch" with a long i it sounds like "biich", not like "beach". (But I don't know of any English words that actually have a long "i" sound in them. If you say bitch with a long i it would be for emphasis, as in "Biitch, please!").

[darrellg]

Gif (not Jif)

Not according to the creators of the format.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIF#Pronunciation_of_GIF

[mtdoc]

It's different. In Portuguese we use accents to change how the vowel sounds, so just by reading the word one knows its correct pronunciation.

I know some Spanish speakers who would disagree with that.   

Written Spanish and Portuguese are very similar on paper but sound very different.  At least in Portugal it's the case that native Portuguese can understand spoken and written Spanish without much difficulty while the reverse is not true - that is, Spaniards can understand Portuguese when written but have difficultly when listening to it spoken. 

My Portuguese girlfriend of many years ago commented that because it was a common occurrence that when a Spaniard and Portuguese tried to communicate the Spaniard could not understand what the Portuguese was saying while the Portuguese had no trouble understanding the Spaniard - the result was that many Portuguese just thought Spaniards were not very smart....

[rolycat]

Gif (not Jif)

Not according to the creators of the format.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIF#Pronunciation_of_GIF

Tough. President Obama and I prefer Gif 

The creators of the PNG format wanted it to be pronounced 'ping', but many people prefer to spell it out as pee-en-gee, which avoids confusion with the networking utility.

As the Stones famously observed, you can't always get what you want.

[Synthetase]

I've seen a few people getting angry at mikeselectricstuff for pronouncing it 'lead' instead of L.E.D. (which I personally use). However, these people don't bat an eyelid when he says 'laser' instead of L.A.S.E.R.

I mean, if you're going to die on that hill, at least be consistent...

[Brumby]

Gif (not Jif)

Not according to the creators of the format.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIF#Pronunciation_of_GIF

I'm not a fan of peanut butter - so I'll go with the hard 'G' ... which is consistent with the mnemonic derivation from "Graphics Interchange Format", where the 'G' of 'Graphics' is a hard 'G'.


Back on topic, I like the zig-zag resistor symbol because it is more suggestive of the component's function.  You also don't have to lift the pen when drawing one by hand.


Getting back off topic - but consistent with some of the tangents already thrown in here....... How many different pronunciations of the letters 'ough' can you identify in the English language?

[AlfBaz]

With regards to the zigzag resistor symbol, I distinctly remember being told at Tech. (many, many years ago) here in Oz, that the new way of drawing them was as boxes.
It seems at the time, the push towards CAD and the limitations in graphics back then lead to simplification of symbols such as the IEEE box symbols for logic gates instead of the more classic curvy ones.

Any old school people here would remember that a diagonal line on a computer screen would be chunky and pixelated as opposed to a horizontal or vertical line

[NiHaoMike]

SCSI = "scuzzy"

Can also be pronounced "sexy", but then "i sexy" sounds even more Apple than it is already.

[AlxDroidDev]

I know some Spanish speakers who would disagree with that.   

I don't know Spanish well enough to enter a linguistics discussion about it, so my comment was about Portuguese only.

Although I can understand Spanishfairly well (like your gf said we do), I can speak it just enough to get by, but I never had any formal education or schooling in Spanish (like I did in English, but I've forgotten more than I know now).

the result was that many Portuguese just thought Spaniards were not very smart....

Well, that doesn't begin to describe what we think of the Portuguese! Back when I lived in the US, Americans used to make jokes about the Polish (do they still do it?!). Well, we make those jokes (and worse) about the Portuguese, because compared to them, our mules are Nobel nominees! 

[Halcyon]

Or color and colour. Why have extra letters when near enough is good enough? Spelling is hard. 

Yes, y hav xtra leters wen ner enuf is gud enuf?

[SteveyG]

SATA: to rhyme with NASA

SATA: Serial Aye Tee Aye

[madires]

    SCSI = "scuzzy"

    on the other hand, IDE = "eye dee ee"

"scuzzy" is also common over here. And we pronounce PATA (IDE) and SATA often "peh ahtah" and "ess ahtah".

[jonovid]

i expect SATA claus 2 climb down my broadband this xmus 
did i mention routers or rootrs as some of the UK may say 

 

[AlfBaz]

did i mention routers or rootrs as some of the UK may say 

I know a lot of Aussies who are dead against "rowter" because we take a direct "root" not a direct "rowt". I kinda agree but I still say "rowter" instead of "rooter"

[timb]

    SCSI = "scuzzy"

    on the other hand, IDE = "eye dee ee"

"scuzzy" is also common over here. And we pronounce PATA (IDE) and SATA often "peh ahtah" and "ess ahtah".

Paytah and Saytah.

[NottheDan]

Paytah and Saytah.

Sarah Palin's grandkids?

[IanB]

I know a lot of Aussies who are dead against "rowter" because we take a direct "root" not a direct "rowt". I kinda agree but I still say "rowter" instead of "rooter"

A "rooter" works out the best route to a destination. A "rowter" is a tool that cuts slots in things.

[madires]

I know a lot of Aussies who are dead against "rowter" because we take a direct "root" not a direct "rowt". I kinda agree but I still say "rowter" instead of "rooter"

A former Aussie work mate told me that I shouldn't pronounce a router "rooter" in Australia which might cause some embarrassment. In my industry everyone says "rowter" anyway, but when speaking German it's "rooter".

[timb]

What about a Roto Router?

[eugenenine]

So the rooter is the rootenist tootinest rooter?

[smithnerd]

I know a lot of Aussies who are dead against "rowter" because we take a direct "root" not a direct "rowt". I kinda agree but I still say "rowter" instead of "rooter"

A "rooter" works out the best route to a destination. A "rowter" is a tool that cuts slots in things.

The packet directing router 'routes' (roots), the woodworking tool 'routs' (rowts). The E on the end changes the vowel sound.

I think that's also the general rule that people who say 'kaysh' for cache (kash) are misapplying. The OED has IPA guides for Scots/US/Aus/NZ dialect variations, but it doesn't have one for 'kaysh'.

I won't let it bother me though, Dave. 

We call SATA 'sahta' 'round these parts.

[Halcyon]

I refer to cache as "Kay-sh". If I hear someone say "cash", I straight away think of money. I've also heard "Cash-aye".

I refer to SATA as "Serial A-T-A". Pronouncing it phonetically sounds awfully close to a Finnish swear word.

[timb]

I refer to cache as "Kay-sh". If I hear someone say "cash", I straight away think of money. I've also heard "Cash-aye".

I refer to SATA as "Serial A-T-A". Pronouncing it phonetically sounds awfully close to a Finnish swear word.

I believe "cash-eh" is the correct way to say it, based on the origins of the word. Though, "cash" has become so used when referring to computer memory, it would be okay to pronounce the word differently depending on usage.

Your computer has a CPU cash; the enemy has a cash-aye of weapons.

[IanB]

I refer to cache as "Kay-sh". If I hear someone say "cash", I straight away think of money. I've also heard "Cash-aye".

I believe "cash-eh" is the correct way to say it, based on the origins of the word. Though, "cash" has become so used when referring to computer memory, it would be okay to pronounce the word differently depending on usage.

Your computer has a CPU cash; the enemy has a cash-aye of weapons.

I have always understood cache to be pronounced as "cash" (it is a French borrowing and the French pronunciation is like cash).

You can verify from various sources, for example:

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/pronunciation/english/cache

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cache

https://youtu.be/_rCcV6MiQZ0

[IanB]

I believe "cash-eh" is the correct way to say it

Incidentally, there is a different word cachet, which is indeed pronounced as "cash-eh".

[Carl_Smith]

I used to always pronounce the letters of LED, until at one place I worked we somehow started an ongoing joke of insisting that all acronyms must be pronounced as words.  This was in the days when laptops had PCMCIA slots...   

The one that really annoys me is when people say "PCB Board."   A co-host of a certain electronics podcast (not Amp Hour) says this, as well as the non-electronics annoyances of saying "granite" instead of "granted,"  and pronouncing "especially" with a K.

I never liked rectangles for resistors, IEC symbols, or the Elektor schematic style.  All things that in my mind fix problems that never existed.

[CatalinaWOW]

I know a lot of Aussies who are dead against "rowter" because we take a direct "root" not a direct "rowt". I kinda agree but I still say "rowter" instead of "rooter"

A "rooter" works out the best route to a destination. A "rowter" is a tool that cuts slots in things.

A "rooter" is an animal that uses its nose to find food.  Often they are the source of bacon. 

You just have to pick your poison.  There will be confusion whichever way you say it.  You may be able to select who you confuse.

[timb]

I used to always pronounce the letters of LED, until at one place I worked we somehow started an ongoing joke of insisting that all acronyms must be pronounced as words.  This was in the days when laptops had PCMCIA slots...

But "Pik-Mik-E-Ah" is so fun to say!

[denverpilot]

(the 's were fixed. I type faster then I think.)

Nothing to fix if you're old -- I have at least one if not three writing style guides around here which  show that in formal papers the plural of an acronym used "'s" back in the day.

But with more and more things like Compact Disc becoming "CD" in formal writing, typing C.D.'s or later CD's went out of vogue with the formal writing crowd and now they appear to pluralize via capitalization only.

Of course, almost no one types R.A.D.A.R. anymore, either.

Language mutates.

But " 's " was once the accurate, formal, way to pluralize an acronym.

(Just like that Oxford comma I just snuck into that sentence. Also no longer correct per the Associated Press style guide and others, and more controversial. "Let's eat, grandma!" vs "Let's eat grandma!" )

[karoru]

In schematics/articles/books I like zigzag for a resistor and box for general impedance symbol. With hand-drawn symbols I've seen too many resistors that looked just like inductors drawn on blackboards or lecture notes. Especially when someone wants to quickly explain a concept and chicken-scratches a fragment of circuit. Usually at the moment of explanation it's obvious from context which one it will be, but not so obvious looking at it few months later

My pet peeve are two popular symbols for current source - circle with arrow inside and two intertwining circles. First one means VOLTAGE source in circuit theory and second one is used as transformer in electrical drawings.

[Brumby]

(the 's were fixed. I type faster then I think.)

They "were" fixed, so they are no longer fixed now?
Also, I think it's always a good idea to think before you type.

Depends on your use of the word 'fixed'.
If it is the past tense of the verb to 'fix', then the fixing action has been completed - and 'were' is used correctly.
If it is used as an adjective to describe "the 's" then blueskull's criticism is valid.

[@rt]

Yeah I know right
And what about programmers that call the char variable type a
CHar! Like CHoo CHoo train!

... and strcat... Star-cat

[timb]

(the 's were fixed. I type faster then I think.)

(Just like that Oxford comma I just snuck into that sentence. Also no longer correct per the Associated Press style guide and others, and more controversial. "Let's eat, grandma!" vs "Let's eat grandma!" )

Capitalization, Punctuation and Grammar Matter:

"I helped my Uncle, Jack, off a horse."

vs

"I helped my uncle jack off a horse!"

The more you know! ~~~#

[darrellg]

Capitalization, Punctuation and Grammar Matter:

"I helped my Uncle, Jack, off a horse."

vs

"I helped my uncle jack off a horse!"

The more you know! ~~~#

[CraigHB]

Commas are funny things.  I was taught years ago in grade school that you should use one any time a part of a sentence can stand on its own.  Doing that you end up with a lot of commas.  Now I favor using them only when the meaning is different with and without the comma.  I was using them a lot to pluralize acronyms, but came to realize that's not a proper use of a comma, makes the acronym look possessive.  People still do that a lot though.  I sometimes do it myself inadvertently.

[IanB]

I was using them a lot to pluralize acronyms, but came to realize that's not a proper use of a comma, makes the acronym look possessive.

You have confused me there, and possibly yourself as well.

A comma sits on the bottom of the line, like this -> ,

An apostrophe sits above the line, like this -> '

They are different punctuation symbols with different names and uses.

[Richard Crowley]

You have confused me there, and possibly yourself as well.
A comma sits on the bottom of the line, like this -> ,
An apostrophe sits above the line, like this -> '
They are different punctuation symbols with different names and uses.

Our European (and European-descendant) friends seem to use the term "inverted comma" for the mark we call "apostrophe".

[Fsck]

SCPI = "skippy"
SciPy = "Sci Pie"

[IanB]

Our European (and European-descendant) friends seem to use the term "inverted comma" for the mark we call "apostrophe".

I am native born British, having grown up there and spent most of my life there, and I do recall the term inverted comma now that you mention it. However, it is maybe something used around children to avoid them struggling to say (and spell) apostrophe. Apostrophe has always been the formal and correct word, as evidenced by, for example, Keith Waterhouse's AAAA (Association for the Abolition of the Aberrant Apostrophe).

[Halcyon]

I used to always pronounce the letters of LED, until at one place I worked we somehow started an ongoing joke of insisting that all acronyms must be pronounced as words.  This was in the days when laptops had PCMCIA slots...

But "Pik-Mik-E-Ah" is so fun to say!

It was reasonably common in Australia to pronounce PCMCIA as "P-C Mica", but to me it just sounded wanky. I always pronounced all the letters as in P-C-M-C-I-A.

[Brumby]

I always pronounced all the letters as in P-C-M-C-I-A.

Me too.

[jhalar]

I know a lot of Aussies who are dead against "rowter" because we take a direct "root" not a direct "rowt". I kinda agree but I still say "rowter" instead of "rooter"

Working with computer networks for 20 years my mind is conditioned to say 'rowter' when talking about network routers and bus 'root' when travelling.

[PointyOintment]

SATA: to rhyme with NASA

SATA: Serial Aye Tee Aye

So you pronounce it "say-tay"?

I used to always pronounce the letters of LED, until at one place I worked we somehow started an ongoing joke of insisting that all acronyms must be pronounced as words.

If you don't pronounce it is as a word, it's not an acronym—it's an initialism.

But with more and more things like Compact Disc becoming "CD" in formal writing, typing C.D.'s or later CD's went out of vogue with the formal writing crowd and now they appear to pluralize via capitalization only.

But " 's " was once the accurate, formal, way to pluralize an acronym.

(Just like that Oxford comma I just snuck into that sentence.

That's not an Oxford comma. "accurate, formal, and way" vs. "accurate, formal and way" demonstrates the Oxford comma (but doesn't make much sense). Oxford comma is not even a valid concept, AFAIK, in the context of listing adjectives before a noun without the use of 'and'.

[denverpilot]

But with more and more things like Compact Disc becoming "CD" in formal writing, typing C.D.'s or later CD's went out of vogue with the formal writing crowd and now they appear to pluralize via capitalization only.

But " 's " was once the accurate, formal, way to pluralize an acronym.

(Just like that Oxford comma I just snuck into that sentence.

That's not an Oxford comma. "accurate, formal, and way" vs. "accurate, formal and way" demonstrates the Oxford comma (but doesn't make much sense). Oxford comma is not even a valid concept, AFAIK, in the context of listing adjectives before a noun without the use of 'and'.

True, bad example of the comma, but the point was, style guides change and unless you're making a living with formal writing, you'll write it the way you learned it. The pluralization by " 's " once was just fine.

[Brumby]

The pluralization by " 's " once was just fine.

Not where I come from.  The apostrophe was always to indicate the possessive form or for a contraction - never pluralization.

[Brumby]

The pluralization by " 's " once was just fine.

Not where I come from.  The apostrophe was always to indicate the possessive form or for a contraction - never pluralization.

I also see 's used to indicate plural a lot, but I never managed to find any explanation on any grammar books or grammar forums.
So I would assume the use of 's as a plural indicator is not grammatically correct.

That's my read on the subject.

From what I have noticed, there has been a fairly lax attitude on grammar since I was in school - and incorrect usage has gone unchallenged.  Even when it is, those who point it out are castigated with the tag "Spelling Police" or "Grammar Police".

[vk6zgo]

Our European (and European-descendant) friends seem to use the term "inverted comma" for the mark we call "apostrophe".

I am native born British, having grown up there and spent most of my life there, and I do recall the term inverted comma now that you mention it. However, it is maybe something used around children to avoid them struggling to say (and spell) apostrophe. Apostrophe has always been the formal and correct word, as evidenced by, for example, Keith Waterhouse's AAAA (Association for the Abolition of the Aberrant Apostrophe).

When I was young,the term "inverted commas" was common in Oz,but it was a synonym for "quotation marks"( these things:-   "     "  ),not apostrophes.

We normally wrote them with  the "tails" down like ordinary commas,but I have seen them really "inverted",with the "tail" up,or occasionally with the one at the beginning of the quote "tail down" & the one at the end "tail up".

Back on topic,I think the "rectangular box" resistor symbol significantly pre-dated
computer drafting & was adopted to make it easier for manual drafting.
After all,a rectangular drawing aid was a lot easier to use than a "zigzag line" one.

Another possible reason was the fact that Industrial Electronics liked to draw inductors as zig-zag lines.

These days,computer drafting makes either resistor symbol easy to use,& zigzag lines for inductors never took off in mainstream Electronics.

Australia originally had more influence  from the UK & USA than from Europe,hence zigzag resistor symbols became the style of choice.
Japan uses them,too,so another "zig zag" influence was added.

As a result,even though the rectangle style is "supposed to be" the official symbol,both are in wide use.

In the end,both styles are easily readable.

[IanB]

I also see 's used to indicate plural a lot, but I never managed to find any explanation on any grammar books or grammar forums.
So I would assume the use of 's as a plural indicator is not grammatically correct.

The explanation is quite straightforward.

The plural of a word is formed by adding an s without an apostrophe, so for example board/boards, transistor/transistors.

An s with an apostrophe is used to mark possession, for example "John's boards came back faulty from the manufacturer."

However, apostrophes are also used to form contractions, by joining together two things that are normally separate, for example it is becomes it's.

This joining usage was at one time extended to forming the plural of acronyms or abbreviations, so for example the plural of LED would be written as LED's. The s is not part of the abbreviation, therefore it is separated with an apostrophe to indicate that it is something joined on, that it is not part of the thing being pluralized.

But over time, grammatical style has tended towards simplicity, and people started treating LED like a word rather than an abbreviation and therefore dropping the apostrophe in the plural and writing LEDs.

I would say it is still acceptable to write LED's as the plural, but such usage does seem to be dying out.

[timb]

I also see 's used to indicate plural a lot, but I never managed to find any explanation on any grammar books or grammar forums.
So I would assume the use of 's as a plural indicator is not grammatically correct.

The explanation is quite straightforward.

The plural of a word is formed by adding an s without an apostrophe, so for example board/boards, transistor/transistors.

An s with an apostrophe is used to mark possession, for example "John's boards came back faulty from the manufacturer."

However, apostrophes are also used to form contractions, by joining together two things that are normally separate, for example it is becomes it's.

This joining usage was at one time extended to forming the plural of acronyms or abbreviations, so for example the plural of LED would be written as LED's. The s is not part of the abbreviation, therefore it is separated with an apostrophe to indicate that it is something joined on, that it is not part of the thing being pluralized.

But over time, grammatical style has tended towards simplicity, and people started treating LED like a word rather than an abbreviation and therefore dropping the apostrophe in the plural and writing LEDs.

I would say it is still acceptable to write LED's as the plural, but such usage does seem to be dying out.

To me, that doesn't follow logically.

Think about it, abbreviations and acronyms pretty much always contain capital letters, so the "S" being lowercase indicates it's not part of the abbrevronym and is instead implying plurality.

[CraigHB]

You have confused me there, and possibly yourself as well.

A comma sits on the bottom of the line, like this -> ,

An apostrophe sits above the line, like this -> '

They are different punctuation symbols with different names and uses.

Haha, forgot to take my meds yesterday morning.  But yeah I meant apostrophe, not comma.  I guess I had a mental block about spelling that darn word.

I actually liked my English classes in college.  I enjoyed the ones most with writing assignments.  I like writing, that's why I visit various forums.

[eugenenine]

My college english was pretty easy.  By then I already had several assignments from high school that I was able to simply open and re-print one of those and hand in.

[Richard Crowley]

The only thing I liked about English class was diagramming sentences.  (Perhaps it reminded me of schematic diagrams.)
I remember this illustration from Scientific American back in the 1960s discussing the ambiguities in parsing language:



Of course, 50 years later Google (et.al.) has solved it by simply throwing MFLOPS at the problem.

[rolycat]

Fruit flies like a banana.

[PointyOintment]

The only thing I liked about English class was diagramming sentences.  (Perhaps it reminded me of schematic diagrams.)
I remember this illustration from Scientific American back in the 1960s discussing the ambiguities in parsing language:



Of course, 50 years later Google (et.al.) has solved it by simply throwing MFLOPS at the problem.

Reminds me of: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/18/what-sentence-diagrams-re_n_167988.html

More: https://www.google.ca/search?q=obama+sentence+diagram&tbm=isch

I particularly like this one: http://www.german-latin-english.com/Barack_Obama_44.jpg (quite large so I didn't embed it)

[raspberrypi]

did i mention routers or rootrs as some of the UK may say 

I know a lot of Aussies who are dead against "rowter" because we take a direct "root" not a direct "rowt". I kinda agree but I still say "rowter" instead of "rooter"

Kangarooter

[ZeTeX]

I draw resistors as boxes, and call LEDs like LEDs and not L.E.Ds

[Delta]

Ell Eee Dee.

[mmagin]

Learning about electronics in the USA, mostly from my dad, the one that was a surprise for me was nanofarads.  Traditionally in the US you just went from <1000 pF to .001 uF.  But the more I've been exposed to it, the more it actually feels less awkward to write 1 nF, 10 nF, 100 nF.

[JustMac]

Dare I ask how gigahertz is pronounced ?   

[Ysjoelfir]

I would say gee-ga-hurts (with a unpronounced g, so no "djeeeee-djaaaa" ( ))

[IanB]

Dare I ask how gigahertz is pronounced ?   

How it is spelled: gig-a-hertz

There is no need for popcorn as there is no ambiguity about it.

[JustMac]

Dare I ask how gigahertz is pronounced ?   

How it is spelled: gig-a-hertz

There is no need for popcorn as there is no ambiguity about it.

So it's jig-a-hurts like the G in giants ?   
Or gig-a-hurts like the G in gag me with a spoon ? 

[SpaceCow]

I call them leads just for the sole purpose of annoying "un-lead-"  folks like the OP.