Aussies on a rant

[McBryce]

The UK is led by a bunch of pedophiles so it seems in the news of late, and a herd of over a thousand lords who sit on their rumps doing nothing for the money they get.

That's a bit unfair! Some of those lords aren't just sitting around on their rumps, they're sampling the finest of nose-candy while trying on prostitues underwear. And he doesn't even get honorable mention when it comes to the real "peers": http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11765742/Think-Lord-Sewel-is-bad-These-are-the-seven-deadliest-sinners-in-the-House-of-Lords.html

McBryce.

[zapta]

We do have gun rights over here numbnuts, they are just restricted to a sensible degree. And our annual gun-related homicide rate is currently running at about 0.11 deaths per 100,000, as opposed to Americas 3 deaths per 100,000.

But no, there is still nothing particularly backwards or deranged about gun culture in America that an outsider could comprehend:

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2014/apr/29/armed-to-the-milk-teeth-america-gun-toting-kids

Well, your country is better than ours. Good for you.

[Mechanical Menace]

freedom of speech y'all!

All joking aside that's one they have very right. Here I don't have that right, I have a a stupid (but seeing as I'm not religious very limited) right to freedom from offence 

It's also technically illegal for me to be a republican, though I can't think of a time those laws have been enforced in my lifetime.



Oh a quick unrelated (or slightly related seeing as we're discussing US laws lol) question if anyone knows the answer. What are the chances of a dual national being caught entering the US using their "other" passport and how much trouble could they potentially get in? I'm guessing "I'm sorry Mr Scary Customs Officer, I forgot I even was" wouldn't fly?

[GK]

freedom of speech y'all!

All joking aside that's one they have very right.

I wasn't implying otherwise.

[GK]

We do have gun rights over here numbnuts, they are just restricted to a sensible degree. And our annual gun-related homicide rate is currently running at about 0.11 deaths per 100,000, as opposed to Americas 3 deaths per 100,000.

But no, there is still nothing particularly backwards or deranged about gun culture in America that an outsider could comprehend:

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2014/apr/29/armed-to-the-milk-teeth-america-gun-toting-kids

Well, your country is better than ours. Good for you.

As far as gun control policy goes, yes, it is. Thank you.

[BradC]

Well, your country is better than ours. Good for you.

We know that. It's why we call it godzone (godsown, godzown depending on your bent)

You'll eventually learn not to take on an Aussie on matters of national pride, because most of what we poke at you seems to make you cry, whereas anything you poke at us just makes us laugh and poke you back We're as proud of our country as you are yours, we just are not that precious about it and have enough introspection to see the grain of truth in anything you might say and generally laugh in agreement with a "Yeh, I can see how that's dumb of us, but it's pretty funny".

And how about that Texas? It squeezes into Western Australia around 3.5 times. How big is it? Slightly bigger than one of our sheep stations

[Mechanical Menace]

We're as proud of our country as you are yours, we just are not that precious about it and have enough introspection to see the grain of truth in anything you might say and generally laugh in agreement with a "Yeh, I can see how that's dumb of us, but it's pretty funny".

I think that's something most of us Brits have in common with you. Except maybe that we like playing up on the precious thing for comic value at times. Or unless the person throwing the criticism around is suspected to be French

[BradC]

I think that's something most of us Brits have in common with you. Except maybe that we like playing up on the precious thing for comic value at times. Or unless the person throwing the criticism around suspected to be French

I'm pretty sure we inherited it from you guys. We just learned to laugh at the French and poke them back.

[rolycat]

Well, your country is better than ours. Good for you.

We know that. It's why we call it godzone (godsown, godzown depending on your bent)

A lot of countries have claimed that title after it was coined by an Englishman writing about Ireland.

Anyway, isn't Palestine God's Own Country? He was born there, after all. Well, a third of him. And what a tranquil paradise on Earth it is, to be sure.

[Mechanical Menace]

We just learned to laugh at the French and poke them back.

You have the advantage of needing a much longer stick to poke them back with


And you also don't have such a long history of when you get to poking each other it generally involving, at the least, very sharp sticks.

[zapta]

Well, your country is better than ours. Good for you.

We know that. It's why we call it godzone (godsown, godzown depending on your bent)

You'll eventually learn not to take on an Aussie on matters of national pride, because most of what we poke at you seems to make you cry, whereas anything you poke at us just makes us laugh and poke you back We're as proud of our country as you are yours, we just are not that precious about it and have enough introspection to see the grain of truth in anything you might say and generally laugh in agreement with a "Yeh, I can see how that's dumb of us, but it's pretty funny".

And how about that Texas? It squeezes into Western Australia around 3.5 times. How big is it? Slightly bigger than one of our sheep stations

If you are looking for a my-country-is-better contest, you are barking at the wrong tree.

[BradC]

We know that. It's why we call it godzone (godsown, godzown depending on your bent)

A lot of countries have claimed that title after it was coined by an Englishman writing about Ireland.

True that, but our claim was authenticated by Douglas Adams. That's enough for me

[boffin]

What beats me is the 2nd amendment is just that an amendment. If you have amended something once you can amend it again. But as we sell lots of guns to the US and make money from it we cant judge them.

  No the 2nd amendment is not just an amendment. It's one of the first ten amendments and collectively they're referred to as 'The Bill of Rights' . They were a package of amendments that the original  states insisted be included when the Constitution was passed. As such they're not amendments but a core part of the US Constitution.  People like Wilson that haven't lived in the US and that don't understand our system of Constitutional rights, really should shut up. Whether they like it or not, gun rights are part of our rights and a part of our culture. If you don't like it, then stay away. We won't miss you.

Maybe taking away every one else's rights because of the actions of a few, sells in your country but not in this one!

Of course the context of the 2nd Amendment; "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State..." is always ignored.  Every time I hear an American tell me about their new gun, I always ask "Which well regulated Militia did you join?"

The rest of the English speaking world reads this as "that's the bit of law that allows for the National Guard", not "I can have an Uzi for squirrel hunting".

It begs to ask the question "You banned fireworks in your state/county, but guns are allowed?"

[Stonent]

But no, there is still nothing particularly backwards or deranged about gun culture in America that an outsider could comprehend:

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2014/apr/29/armed-to-the-milk-teeth-america-gun-toting-kids

After seeing that I can now more understand the reaction of a certain American police officer to the 12 year old with the toy gun. There are very sensible laws stating that toy guns must obviously be toy guns, either by having an orange tip OR being brightly coloured. When toy guns must look like toy guns allowing real guns to look like toy guns defeats the point of such laws.

Yeah that's why I really dislike those pictures of pink guns for women or hello kitty themed guns.  I would want a cop to at all times be able to tell if a gun was real or fake withought having to put much thought into it.

[zapta]

you.
Of course the context of the 2nd Amendment; "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State..." is always ignored.  Every time I hear an American tell me about their new gun, I always ask "Which well regulated Militia did you join?"

The rest of the English speaking world reads this as "that's the bit of law that allows for the National Guard", not "I can have an Uzi for squirrel hunting".

It begs to ask the question "You banned fireworks in your state/county, but guns are allowed?"

The second amendment is very clear. It says that "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed", gives one justification for it, so people can join a militia if and when the need arise, and doesn't preclude other reasons a free citizen may want to own guns (sport, hunting, self defense, collection, etc.)

Personal liberty is a strange concept for some.

[warp_foo]

What beats me is the 2nd amendment is just that an amendment. If you have amended something once you can amend it again. But as we sell lots of guns to the US and make money from it we cant judge them.

  No the 2nd amendment is not just an amendment. It's one of the first ten amendments and collectively they're referred to as 'The Bill of Rights' . They were a package of amendments that the original  states insisted be included when the Constitution was passed. As such they're not amendments but a core part of the US Constitution.  People like Wilson that haven't lived in the US and that don't understand our system of Constitutional rights, really should shut up. Whether they like it or not, gun rights are part of our rights and a part of our culture. If you don't like it, then stay away. We won't miss you.

Maybe taking away every one else's rights because of the actions of a few, sells in your country but not in this one!

Of course the context of the 2nd Amendment; "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State..." is always ignored.  Every time I hear an American tell me about their new gun, I always ask "Which well regulated Militia did you join?"

The rest of the English speaking world reads this as "that's the bit of law that allows for the National Guard", not "I can have an Uzi for squirrel hunting".

It begs to ask the question "You banned fireworks in your state/county, but guns are allowed?"

Or you could read up on the actual statute:

10 U.S. Code § 311 - Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

But hey, why bother if it doesn't fit your worldview, right?

[Mechanical Menace]

The second amendment is very clear. It says that "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed", gives one justification for it, so people can join a militia if and when the need arise, and doesn't preclude other reasons a free citizen may want to own guns (sport, hunting, self defense, collection, etc.)

SCOTUS disagrees with your interpretation, repeatedly finding that the right is not unlimited and that "The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence."

They also disagree about your claims on the wording regarding militias, explicitly finding that anything can be banned outright that does not have "reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia."

[ajb]

If you are looking for a my-country-is-better contest, you are barking at the wrong tree.

I don't often agree with zapta (or at least i don't think I do--it's hard to actually nail him down on a particular point), but I'll agree with him wholeheartedly here.  The thing is, we probably have very different reasons for holding that sentiment, and that's rather emblematic of the american sociopolitical landscape.  I'd wager that nobody in the US is completely satisfied with the way things are.  Some of us want the country to move in one direction, others in another, still others in a third.  The net result is that making any movement at all is slow and difficult--it's hard to move forward if most people are pulling hard left or hard right.  I'm sure the same thing happens in other countries, but I suspect it's more pronounced in the US due to geographical and socioeconomic diversity and the entrenched positions some segments have as a result of previous conflicts.    And of course the fact that our national spats get broadcast to the world doesn't help that perception, and I would guess provides a bit of positive feedback, although surely not to the degree that our own national media does. 

In any case, feel free to hold whatever opinion you want about our gun laws or monetary policy, or whatever.  But to paint all Americans in the same colors as the cherry-picked nutjobs that responded to a celebrity's tweet on a hot-button issue is lazy, dishonest, and yes, offensive (unless you're funny about it--most of us can take a joke, but you have to at least make the effort, and an ex post facto "but it was a joke" isn't an excuse for simple laziness).  Moreover, when you paint all of us as a homogenous blend of nuttery you practice the same lazy dishonesty as many of our own blowhards and talking heads that just further entrenches the more extreme positions on all sides.  It's just plain dumb and incredibly frustrating to those of us who are interested in having a nuanced discussion based on achieving shared goals and making real progress. 

[GreyWoolfe]

I love reading the response from average Americans. It just proves what most of us are thinking.

I would be curious to know how much time you have spent here and just how many Americans you have had earnest conversations with to make the remark about average that you did.  I am an average American gun owner.  I have a CCW (carry concealed weapon) permit.  I don't always carry, just depends on where/what time of day I will be.  I also use Federal Hydro-Shok hollow point ammunition because if you are truly stupid enough to make me pull my gun on you, fight over.  I am also not a member of the NRA.  I absolutely agree with mandatory background checks and waiting periods.  I believe that additional gun control laws are useless, let's PROPERLY enforce the one's we have including mandatory sentencing for criminal possession of a firearm.  I also believe that just because you may have the right to open carry an AR-15 in public, doesn't mean you should-common sense should prevail.  I also don't support your right to own that AR-15 for "hunting".  Don't play me stupid-that weapon is made for offence/self defense, not hunting Bambi-get a Remington 700 BDL with a scope to put meat on the table.  I also think trophy hunting is ludicrous-waste of natural resources.  Eat what you kill with the exception of 2 legged rats or give the meat to someone else.

As I said, I am an average American gun owner.  I know many owners who probably don't know who Rebel Wilson is, don't care who she is and would face palm over the reactions of a small percentage of nuts.  For those who love to bash America, I would hope you all could find better things to do with your time.  No country is perfect.  If bashing America and Americans is your thing and makes your day, all I can say is good on ya.    As my tag line says, it's not your beliefs that make you a better person, it's your behavior.  In ham radio terms, it's not the class of license the ham holds but the class of the ham that holds the license.  Time to get back to configuring my replacement company laptop.  Be happy and be blessed.  Yes, I know the horror of it all- an average American gun owner who is a conservative Christian Republican .

Edit:    ajb

[Halcyon]

Well, your country is better than ours. Good for you.

We know that. It's why we call it godzone (godsown, godzown depending on your bent)

You'll eventually learn not to take on an Aussie on matters of national pride, because most of what we poke at you seems to make you cry, whereas anything you poke at us just makes us laugh and poke you back We're as proud of our country as you are yours, we just are not that precious about it and have enough introspection to see the grain of truth in anything you might say and generally laugh in agreement with a "Yeh, I can see how that's dumb of us, but it's pretty funny".

And how about that Texas? It squeezes into Western Australia around 3.5 times. How big is it? Slightly bigger than one of our sheep stations

If you are looking for a my-country-is-better contest, you are barking at the wrong tree.

I don't think he was?!?

[donotdespisethesnake]

Ah yes, the benefits of an "unorganized militia"

The owner of a shopping center that includes a storefront military recruitment center ordered armed civilians guarding the center to leave the premises today after one of them accidentally fired his rifle.

    […]

    Reed told the officer who responded that he was holding his AR-15 rifle in front of the military recruiting station to guard the personnel inside when someone approached him and asked if he could take a look at the weapon. Reed agreed to show him, and while he was trying to clear the ammunition from the weapon, he accidentally fired into the asphalt pavement.

    The only damage was a hole in the pavement. The rifle was taken from Reed pending his appearance in court, the incident report says.

Having had the gun control discussion many times since the invention of the internet, I have come to the conclusion that there is no rational debate to be had on the subject. With that realisation, I have come out the other side. If a militia is essential for public order, and gun zones reduce crime, then the logical conclusion is that US citizens should be mandated to carry firearms.

Therefore all US adults should be issued with a handgun, which they are required to carry at all times, for the purposes of ensuring law and order. This should effectively prevent all crime from occurring.

It would also benefit civil cases. Disputes can be quickly settled out of court, preferably in the street so everyone can watch justice being done, like it was in the good old days. Of course, it should be properly regulated with seconds appointed, take 20 paces turn and fire. Definitely against the rules to shoot anyone in the back.

[zapta]

... If a militia is essential for public order, and gun zones reduce crime, then the logical conclusion is that US citizens should be mandated to carry firearms.

That's a totalitarian argument. X is important and therefore everybody must do it. For example, all Brits must grow food.

Think personal liberty.

[Joule Thief]

As far as I am concerned if you do not pee on my lawn then I won't take a dump on yours.

This means a great deal to me especially since I live in a low lying valley 

[zapta]

SCOTUS disagrees with your interpretation, repeatedly finding that the right is not unlimited and that "The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence."

They also disagree about your claims on the wording regarding militias, explicitly finding that anything can be banned outright that does not have "reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia."

SCOTUSs disagree even among themselves, on most topics and often disagree with the public. Free people have different opinions and view points. That's how freedom works.

[Corporate666]

How well would it go over in Australia if Kim Kardashian posted on Twitter that Australia really needs to fix their human rights laws, being so racist towards Aboriginals, hateful towards gays, and cold and heartless towards asylum seekers?

We'd laugh *hard* and then crack a beer while watching her sex tape again.

I'll edit this to say it's because unlike some other countries who we won't mention (but we all know who I mean), we in Australia have the ability to sagely nod and agree with people who make insightful comments about ourselves without getting our knickers in a twist. We then have a laugh and poke fun at the size of Texas (or the UK for that matter). It's not about who's the best, it's about who is so precious and wound up about their own issues that they are incapable of seeing the funny side. Crack a beer, have a laugh. You *do* have a gun control problem and we *will* continue to point it out. You are likewise free to point out all our flaws, we just don't get wound up about it and have the ability to laugh at ourselves.

Well, you don't speak for all Australians, because I found a few articles showing the Twitter backlash when an American show aired in Oz with an aboriginal joke - plenty of f-bombs, calling the women C-words who made the joke, etc.  So the idea that Australians would react differently is false.

And the point is that unless someone understands all the nuances of the situation, then it's impossible to make "insightful comments" about issues from media soundbytes.  But most people don't expose themselves to a wide enough range of information to really know anything about a situation - they just go by the soundbytes, and it's an unfortunate reality that worldwide media is genuinely obsessed with America.

As for guns in the USA - we don't have a gun problem at all.  We have a people problem.  Or rather, some people.  And a pretty small number, when it comes down to it.