Electronics manufacturing, third-world style

[mikeselectricstuff]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/mQmFT1TJda8

[ataradov]

Just a little bit of equipment improvement would make it a reasonable way to make small batch low complexity devices. 

And they really need some basic PPE.

[negativ3]

Just a little bit of equipment improvement would make it a reasonable way to make small batch low complexity devices. 

And they really need some basic PPE.

I worked across India and where PPE is sold, it's priced as a luxury rather than a necessity unfortunately.
Not even close to branded/certified stuff.

[5U4GB]

And they really need some basic PPE.

What's the problem, I'm pretty sure they were wearing their safety squints while using that linisher.

For me the scariest part wasn't them putting their hands in the etching bath but the table saw with no blade guard or riving knife, when he's cutting the mother sheet his remaining fingers are only a few cm from the blade.

[golden_labels]

Given the channel this video comes from: any reliable sources?

[tom66]

This is why it's cheaper to produce things in third world countries: no PPE, no worker's comp if the worker does injure themselves, and I'll bet the chemicals go down the drain or into the watercourse once they're done.  Labour cost is one factor, but it's usually the regulatory stuff that seals the deal. 

[Sensorcat]

What puzzles me is the varying degree of automation: Drilling is done with CNC, but during etching the bath is moved by hand. Isn't it an obvious optimization to add a drive for that? And if PPE is luxury, why not use a wire basket to deepen/remove the PCBs from the bath?

[tom66]

What puzzles me is the varying degree of automation: Drilling is done with CNC, but during etching the bath is moved by hand. Isn't it an obvious optimization to add a drive for that? And if PPE is luxury, why not use a wire basket to deepen/remove the PCBs from the bath?

I think it's simple really.  They automate things humans would be bad at doing, because drilling that many holes accurately is hard, arguably impossible to get the required yield without a very skilled craftsperson (which would be expensive).  But they don't automate things humans can do well enough.

When your workers cost $1 an hour or less, automating to save labour costs doesn't make that much sense.

[Sensorcat]

I think it's simple really.  They automate things humans would be bad at doing, because drilling that many holes accurately is hard, arguably impossible to get the required yield without a very skilled craftsperson (which would be expensive).  But they don't automate things humans can do well enough.

I agree.

When your workers cost $1 an hour or less, automating to save labour costs doesn't make that much sense.

My thought was that it must be cheap to install a drive to move the bath, given the conditions on this site. You go to the guy next door, get a drive ($10), ask somebody to install ($10), no regulations etc. Then the guy that shakes the bath 10min/cycle needs only 1min/cycle for taking stuff in/out. 90% of work saved, 0.9$/h according to your estimation. Dream payback period for the business owner, the metric that I assumed to count on any level, everywhere.

[xrunner]

Yea ... reminds me of the videos of guys in Pakistan that fix trucks and engines. All waste water and other solvents go right into the dirt where their precious topsoil will be poisoned for who knows how may years and probably never be recoverable.

[Analog Kid]

I'm just going to come right out and say it:
Those guys over there in Pakistan are just pigs.
Yes, I know: third-world conditions, extreme poverty, close to zero regulation and a desperate need to do whatever it takes to earn a living.

But they must realize just how shitty their working conditions are, all that toxic shit they're dealing with without much regard for the consequences. Pouring out all that toxic sludge right back into their own environment. They seem quite oblivious to all that.

Ugh.

On the other hand, I love this video showing making tubes by hand in China Japan:



Similar working conditions; notice the dirt floors in some places. But these guys exercise much more care, and their construction techniques, while fairly primitive, are actually pretty exquisite. (Love those floral ceramic tube bases!)

They're making 100-watt power triodes; wonder what their mu is, and how much variation there is from tube to tube? Notice how the filaments are cut and bent without the use of a template.

The only part that makes me a bit queasy is when they're exposing themselves to strong RF fields when energizing the getters in the tubes. Other than that it seems like a pretty well-thought-out and executed process.

[johansen]

I'm just going to come right out and say it:
Those guys over there in Pakistan are just pigs.
Yes, I know: third-world conditions, extreme poverty, close to zero regulation and a desperate need to do whatever it takes to earn a living.

But they must realize just how shitty their working conditions are, all that toxic shit they're dealing with without much regard for the consequences. Pouring out all that toxic sludge right back into their own environment. They seem quite oblivious to all that.

Ugh.

they don't realize it, or most of them don't.

otherwise they wouldn't reproduce. don't blame them, if humans didn't keep going just because someone else somewhere else lived in a better situation, the whole human race would have died out tens of millions of years ago. 

[Analog Kid]

I'm just going to come right out and say it:
Those guys over there in Pakistan are just pigs.
Yes, I know: third-world conditions, extreme poverty, close to zero regulation and a desperate need to do whatever it takes to earn a living.

But they must realize just how shitty their working conditions are, all that toxic shit they're dealing with without much regard for the consequences. Pouring out all that toxic sludge right back into their own environment. They seem quite oblivious to all that.

Ugh.

they don't realize it, or most of them don't.

Or they think that "Allah" will take care of them and make everything OK. Just as bad.

[Fraser]

Analog Kid,

Thank you for sharing that fascinating video of handmade 100W thermionic audio valves 

I looked up P&C Electronics and apparently they are a much revered hand made valve Audio amplifier manufacturer in Japan (not China). I would buy one of those valves just as a display piece  That said, they will be quite expensive if hand made in Japan.

Fraser

[johansen]

Or they think that "Allah" will take care of them and make everything OK. Just as bad.

so most folks here are athiest, as i assume you are, but i would recommend you read the book "the denial of death"
faith is actually the only antidote to the problem...

[exe]

But these guys exercise much more care, and their construction techniques, while fairly primitive, are actually pretty exquisite. (Love those floral ceramic tube bases!)

I bet their profit margins are also different. They are producing what I'd call a luxury item: handmade  vacuum tubes. I'm pretty sure their customers have money. Imo, those two are not very comparable: first video is more like a sweatshop at improvised factory.

Though that doesn't justify the damage they do to the nature and to themselves.

[tooki]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/mQmFT1TJda8

The soldering iron step seems off to me: I don't see any solder anywhere...

[Monkeh]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/mQmFT1TJda8

The soldering iron step seems off to me: I don't see any solder anywhere...

Boards got tinned somewhere between shots. Flux? Maybe. Maybe not..

[ataradov]

I think 1:44 is either part of the tinning or application of flux. Whatever that solution is, it does not look too great, but I guess it is not the worst thing in this video.

[Analog Kid]

Or they think that "Allah" will take care of them and make everything OK. Just as bad.

so most folks here are athiest, as i assume you are, but i would recommend you read the book "the denial of death"
faith is actually the only antidote to the problem...

Thanks but no thanks; I avoid reading stuff like that like the plague.
If there is an afterlife, I'll have plenty of time to read it in that hot place down below.

[5U4GB]

If there is an afterlife, I'll have plenty of time to read it in that hot place down below.

The female (or male if you prefer) company down there will be a lot more fun too. And they'll get all the good musicians, I really can't imagine Lemmy sitting on a cloud strumming a harp.

[Zoli]

If there is an afterlife, I'll have plenty of time to read it in that hot place down below.

The female (or male if you prefer) company down there will be a lot more fun too. And they'll get all the good musicians, I really can't imagine Lemmy sitting on a cloud strumming a harp.

Old joke, let's put it on Lemmy&Ozzy:
Ozzy get in hell, and meets a tortured Lemmy with woman, glasses of wine and an orchestra providing music.
Asks Lemmy: Why are you so tortured?
Lemmy: The glasses have holes, the women don't, and the music is Bartók.

[johansen]

Thanks but no thanks; I avoid reading stuff like that like the plague.
If there is an afterlife, I'll have plenty of time to read it in that hot place down below.

the author was probably an athiest...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Denial_of_Death

[tszaboo]

This is why it's cheaper to produce things in third world countries: no PPE, no worker's comp if the worker does injure themselves, and I'll bet the chemicals go down the drain or into the watercourse once they're done.  Labour cost is one factor, but it's usually the regulatory stuff that seals the deal.

I had an ex PCB house employee complain about this. In the EU they basically had to filter the outgoing water so much, it was cleaner than the incoming water. How are you supposed to compete with the complete lack of environmental control?

I have a theory, that in the very near future, millennials are going to get into political power. And wars will be fought on emissions, waste and environmental protection. When I say war, I mean armies, tanks drones and planes shooting at each other, showing up from the west to enforce an agenda. And this will be the consequence of the hysterical nature of the climate change scare.

[ftg]

Wild seeing pertinax boards with white soldermask.
But I guess it makes sense for their relatively low power product.