Elon Musk (No Politics)

[EEVblog]

Because every time Elon Musk/Telsa/SpaceX/Whatever is bought up in any other thread it seems to get derailed. So from now on, this can be the one big thread related to all things Elon Musk and Elon business related where you can point everyone to fight it out.
So instead of derailing another thread, if Elon/Whatever is bought up, copy the post and reply here.

NOTE: This forum has a "no politics" rule, and this thread is no exception. That means no DOGE or other related politics even if it is Elon related in some way.
If you start talking politics then your posts might be deleted without warning.

[EEVblog]

I'll seed it, from the Blue Origin thread:

However if we look at the facts most of Musk's companies are bs.

A weird thing to say. My Starlink has been working perfectly for almost four years. SpaceX is launching something like 90% of the world's total mass to orbit this year. X is doing much better than any of its anti-Musk competitors. The Model Y was the biggest selling vehicle in the world in 2023 and 2024, though it seems to have fallen behind the RAV4 (but not any other EV) in 2025.

Yes, when you look at it objectively, most of his stuff is a success.

SpaceX and Starlink are massive successes and dominate their markets. Starship aside.

Telsa still does pretty well in the EV space despite not really innovating much with new models, and had a big failure with Cybertruck. But what car company doesn't have a failed model. Sales are still good.

X is still the only social platform that really matters, and is generally trending in a positive direction in terms of features.

xAI is one of the leaders in the industry, often ranked at or near the top. Their ability to spin up massive scale data centres is second to none.

Neuralink has has very promising trials in real patients. Maybe a leader here? I'm not sure.

Tesla humanoid robots are generally behind, but seems promising if you are into that sort of thing. Maybe it'll work maybe it won't, but the same can be said of all their competitors also.

Tesla battery storage is quite successful, being used everywhere. I haven't looked at market share, but they are popular in grid scale stuff.

The Boring company is kinda, meh. Not sure what they are offering. I wouldn't say failed or BS, just not doing anything useful?

However if we look at the facts most of Musk's companies are bs.

A weird thing to say. My Starlink has been working perfectly for almost four years. SpaceX is launching something like 90% of the world's total mass to orbit this year. X is doing much better than any of its anti-Musk competitors. The Model Y was the biggest selling vehicle in the world in 2023 and 2024, though it seems to have fallen behind the RAV4 (but not any other EV) in 2025.

Yes, when you look at it objectively, most of his stuff is a success.

Yes, and more importantly, most of his stuff is in areas were it's actually trying to make the world better as the end goal, rather than trying to make money as the end goal.
History shows that Elon uses his money to start new businesses, and his track record is creating beneficial business.

* EVs - To move away from fossil fuel, lower carbon emissions, cheaper to run for the people.
(Some people can try to argue that some carbon still comes from battery production and some battery types require toxic chemicals, but that's not really the point here. The point is to get cars to transition to electricity as their power source because doing that takes decades to complete. Once you have electric cars you can transition a car from one battery type to another better/safer/cheaper type on a dime. It's literally just drop in a new battery type at the factory for next years model.

* Space travel - Apart from being cool and inspiring a generation, SpaceX is trying to create an entire space industry and all the new jobs that comes with, think the industrial revolution but a space construction revolution.

* Boring company - Sure, its fair to argue that didn't work, but it's goal was pure, to solve real world traffic problems.

* Starlink - Give internet to people who can't get it because there's no infrastructure near them or it's too expensive.

* X - Try to create a platform where users can self-correct misinformation (community notes).  X is a bit controversial obviously.

* Neuralink - Give disabled people back their lives.


You can argue about his methods being a bit manipulative or deceptive sometimes. 
(Like selling cars with the promise of unsupervised Full Self Drive etc.. And backing Trump which may have been a mistake.)
But at some point you have to go, 'ok his methods are not perfect but the output of the companies he starts/runs are, for the most part, positive for society.'

* Boring company - Sure, its fair to argue that didn't work, but it's goal was pure, to solve real world traffic problems.

It makes things a lot simpler if you assume that everything Musk does is to develop technology useful for getting to or living on Mars.

Big rockets, obviously. Solar power and electric vehicles and battery technology. Robots to do work before you have enough humans there. Satellite communications.

Improving the speed/efficiency and lower the cost of digging tunnels has obvious applications on Mars. The Boring Company claims to have tunnelling costs around $10 million per mile for compared to $100 million to more than $1 billion per mile on other projects.  Part of that -- but only part -- is the relatively small diameter of their tunnels.

Fast point to point ground transport also has obvious applications. Hyperloop is a lot easier somewhere the atmosphere is only 2% as dense as Earth's.

Finding some way to make a profit on Earth while developing that technology, or as a result of it, is of course very useful, but it's not the main goal.

[snip] And yet robotaxi.

I don't think that robotaxi could be considered public transport.  Let's think
- wholly owned by private corporation and not operated as a public concession or service
- vehicles are not shared with other people, except those in your party - they are essentially cars
- not available to everyone who could pay (you have to be on a limited access list, and Tesla can exclude you if they don't like you)

Maybe in the future autonomous vehicles  (including Tesla's system) will form some part of a public transportation system, but at the moment they are just driverless taxis, and taxis are not public transport either.

I think most of Musk's success is related to marketing and the bandwagon fallacy.

For example, most intelligent people understand crypto currency is a pyramid scheme and a scam. They don't buy in because they think it is a real currency which has value only because they think other more gullible people will pay more in the future. Ergo, it's a pyramid scheme which in the good old days was illegal.

Elon Musk's businesses seem to follow a similar path being grossly over valued and most buy stock gambling that the price will rise not because it has real value. I mean a Tesla EV is half the car a BYD is at twice the price. In a rational world Tesla stock should have tanked years ago. However it will never tank so long as there are suckers willing to gamble that someone is even more gullible and willing to pay more for the stock.

In effect, it's a waiting game for the next market dip and most of the fake economy to implode. The fact remains that no real economy can survive based on bs and the bandwagon fallacy. It's not if the U.S. economy will implode but when.

Elon Musk's businesses seem to follow a similar path being grossly over valued

Again, Musk has many businesses but only one of them is publicly traded and thus has a market valuation.

If you truly believe it's over-valued then short it.

[snip] And yet robotaxi.

I don't think that robotaxi could be considered public transport.  Let's think
- wholly owned by private corporation and not operated as a public concession or service
- vehicles are not shared with other people, except those in your party - they are essentially cars
- not available to everyone who could pay (you have to be on a limited access list, and Tesla can exclude you if they don't like you)

Maybe in the future autonomous vehicles  (including Tesla's system) will form some part of a public transportation system, but at the moment they are just driverless taxis, and taxis are not public transport either.

Taxis are generally considered to be public transport.

You don't own one or even have legal possession of it. You don't service or fuel it. You pay a simple fee for transportation to somewhere. You share it with possibly dozens of other people in the same day, and I've many times shared a taxi -- even a traditional one, not Uber -- with strangers who are traveling on a similar route.

Bus companies and airlines ... both clearly public transport ... also ban disruptive customers.

[snip] And yet robotaxi.

I don't think that robotaxi could be considered public transport.  Let's think
- wholly owned by private corporation and not operated as a public concession or service
- vehicles are not shared with other people, except those in your party - they are essentially cars
- not available to everyone who could pay (you have to be on a limited access list, and Tesla can exclude you if they don't like you)

Maybe in the future autonomous vehicles  (including Tesla's system) will form some part of a public transportation system, but at the moment they are just driverless taxis, and taxis are not public transport either.

Taxis are generally considered to be public transport.

You don't own one or even have legal possession of it. You don't service or fuel it. You pay a simple fee for transportation to somewhere. You share it with possibly dozens of other people in the same day, and I've many times shared a taxi -- even a traditional one, not Uber -- with strangers who are traveling on a similar route.

Bus companies and airlines ... both clearly public transport ... also ban disruptive customers.

Taxis are not considered public transport.  They are private point to point forms of transport.  From wiki:

A taxi, also known as a taxicab or simply a cab, is a type of vehicle for hire with a driver, used by a single passenger or small group of passengers, often for a non-shared ride. A taxicab conveys passengers between locations of their choice. This differs from public transport where the pick-up and drop-off locations are decided by the service provider, not by the customers, although demand responsive transport and share taxis provide a hybrid bus/taxi mode.

You can choose to share a taxi, just like you can share your own private car, but that does not make your private car a form of public transport.  It is true that services like 'Uber Pool' blur the lines a little on what is public transport and what is private, and I would argue that 'Uber Pool', where it is offered, is a form of public transport, although it doesn't meet all of the characteristics of more traditional public transport like set routes and drop off/pick up locations.

In the case of Robotaxi, we've already seen that people who dare to post critical things about Elon or FSD do not get access to the early betas or get removed outright from it.  I haven't found anyone banned from Robotaxi itself, though, but it's quite a small beta for now.

[wraper]

Let's go!

[nctnico]

 

[Smokey]

Who is this Elon guy?  He sounds interesting!

[EEVblog]

Better to flog the dead horse here.

[Zucca]

I am curious to see the very calm and peaceful discussion that will happen here.

[wraper]

[temperance]

I would rename the thread to "The hippo centre" a general thread where you can be the centre of the universe for some serious defecation wagging about famous people you hate.

[Bud]

Can we send an invite to Thunderf00t to join the thread? 

[Psi]

Because every time Elon Musk/Telsa/SpaceX/Whatever is bought up in any other thread it seems to get derailed. So from now on, this can be the one big thread related to all things Elon Musk and Elon business related where you can point everyone to fight it out.
So instead of derailing another thread, if Elon/Whatever is bought up, copy the post and reply here.

Need some consequences for Pro-Musk / Anti-Musk derailment in other threads now that we have this one.

Perhaps users who derail threads with an anti-Musk statement get their profile signature changed to add a pro-musk statement.
And vice versa if they derail with pro-Musk statements.
That would be pretty funny and appropriate troll.

[KE5FX]

[Psi]

It's not possible to actually know this, but I am super curious what percentage of the musk hate is rational vs irrational hate.

Like how much stems from factual bad things he has done to people, verses
 Peoples assumptions of negative motivations behind his actions.
 Or from jealousy manifesting as anger.
 Or being unable to accept what he has done in life as actually possible without there being a scam or fraud somewhere. So believing a scam/fraud exists purely because believing there isn't one seems even more preposterous to them.

[jonovid]

science fiction is boring when we have real life billionaires seeking world domination with a humanoid sentient robot army 

[RoGeorge]

ALIENS PUT BABY IN MICROWAVE! (An Alien Claymation)
Lee Hardcastle



- Again?!
- Again...
(Elon Musk is a nice chap)

 

[EEVblog]

It's not possible to actually know this, but I am super curious what percentage of the musk hate is rational vs irrational hate.

On Bluesky it's gotta be 100% irrational 

[wilfred]

I am curious to see the very calm and peaceful discussion that will happen here.

You know as well as I do there won't be any at all. Sensible people will treat this thread like a pool with a turd in it. There is some merit in creating this thread if it makes the rest of the forum a nicer place. But if past experience is a guide, it won't.

I'm curious too if it is even possible to discuss Elon Musk constructively.

[tggzzz]

It's not possible to actually know this, but I am super curious what percentage of the musk hate is rational vs irrational hate.

37.6%

[tggzzz]

It's not possible to actually know this, but I am super curious what percentage of the musk hate is rational vs irrational hate.

On Bluesky it's gotta be 100% irrational rational 

FTFY

Does Australia have the UK pantomime tradition? Pantos contain phrases that have long been a meme, and which must be included in every panto?

[NE666]

Pantos contain phrases that have long been a meme, and which must be included in every panto?

Oh no they don't!

[NE666]

I'm curious too if it is even possible to discuss Elon Musk constructively.

I think the intended interpretation is outside of the literal one.

i.e. just don't bring those comments or discussions to other threads, rather than as an endorsement for starting or perpetuating them anywhere else.

I'd like to see that happen but I won't hold my breath. By now, I've learnt that if a species lives long enough it turns into crabs, and if an EEVblog thread lives long enough it turns into a pissing contest.

[Electrodynamic]

It's not possible to actually know this, but I am super curious what percentage of the musk hate is rational vs irrational hate.

Like how much stems from factual bad things he has done to people, verses
 Peoples assumptions of negative motivations behind his actions.
 Or from jealousy manifesting as anger.
 Or being unable to accept what he has done in life as actually possible without there being a scam or fraud somewhere. So believing a scam/fraud exists purely because believing there isn't one seems even more preposterous to them.

This is a loaded question using the false presumption that anyone critical of Musk "hates" him which is demonstrably false and absurd.

It is also a common form of gaslighting or psychological manipulation implying anyone critical of Musk has negative motivations, jealousy or hate which is patently absurd. This is very common among the maga crowd casting anyone who disagrees as somehow evil and themselves as victims which is usually considered psychotic behavior.

My criticism of Musk is nothing like your diatribe. Think of it this way, what if Ford Motor Company...
1)Claimed to have working technology they don't and tested the new technology on customers putting their lives at risk killing some.
2)Manipulated the stock price based on these lies or deceptions claiming a fake trillion dollar evaluation.
3)The conflicted board members then gave themselves a huge raise and the CEO 56 billion and 1 trillion dollar pay packages at the share holders expense. Said value taken from shareholders based on lies and stock manipulation.

In any civilized country with enforced laws like Canada what Musk/Tesla have done is illegal and all involved would be in prison. Tesla would have been shut down the moment these vehicles started killing the drivers and innocent pedestrians.

This blatant corruption has a two fold effect, one it gives Musk/Tesla a grossly unfair advantage creating manufactured monopolies at the taxpayers expense. Two it destroys any real competition who actually have to follow the laws and regulations.

So this has nothing to do with jealousy or hate which may be the stupidest thing I have ever heard. My objections are with lies, stock manipulation, grifting and corruption. Is that so hard to understand?.

[KE5FX]

This blatant corruption has a two fold effect, one it gives Musk/Tesla a grossly unfair advantage creating manufactured monopolies at the taxpayers expense. Two it destroys any real competition who actually have to follow the laws and regulations.

Three, it effectively normalizes the practice by forcing the other market participants to behave similarly.  Eventually we wake up hungover in a circus tent, surrounded by the smoking ruins of our rule-based economy, wondering how we got here.

"Hate" is almost always irrational in a five-whys sense.  Nervousness and apprehension is my own reaction when the subject of Musk comes up.  He is a better Henry Ford than Henry Ford, in both the good and bad respects.  Even more effective at building cars, even more effective at changing entire industries and societies for the better, and even more effective at propagating ignorant, destructive ideas.

[Electrodynamic]

This blatant corruption has a two fold effect, one it gives Musk/Tesla a grossly unfair advantage creating manufactured monopolies at the taxpayers expense. Two it destroys any real competition who actually have to follow the laws and regulations.

Three, it effectively normalizes the practice by forcing the other market participants to behave similarly.  Eventually we wake up hungover in a circus tent, surrounded by the smoking ruins of our rule-based economy, wondering how we got here.

"Hate" is almost always irrational in a five-whys sense.  Nervousness and apprehension is my own reaction when the subject of Musk comes up.  He is a better Henry Ford than Henry Ford, in both the good and bad respects.  Even more effective at building cars, even more effective at changing entire industries and societies for the better, and even more effective at propagating ignorant, destructive ideas.

Indeed and this pattern of behavior were seeing in the U.S. regarding Musk, Trump and maga is almost identical to a cult.

"Cults are typically characterized by a charismatic leader, extreme devotion to specific beliefs or practices, isolation from the outside world, and authoritarian control over members. They often discourage questioning and dissent, and may use manipulative techniques to maintain loyalty and control."

I mean, we can literally check off all the boxes described above point by point. It's the damnedest thing I have ever seen and never really bought into the notion of cults. I always thought nobody could be that naive and misguided to fall for something so obvious but apparently I was wrong.

It's not rocket science, read the definition above of what a cult is and if the shoe fits then...it is what it is.

[KE5FX]

Yeah, I remember reading about Jonestown as a grade-school kid.  How did this happen?  What got into those people? 

Turns out Jim Jones didn't die in Guyana.  He was just faking it.  He went back to Wharton and finished his MBA under an assumed name, like Woz when he got his long-delayed EE degree.  Now he runs everything in the US, from our government to the Pentagon to the stock market.