It's "sodder", not "soLder", damnit! (for us USAians)

[TimFox]

By the way, "Istanbul" is a corruption (in the linguistic sense of the word) of "Constantinople".

You can't go back to Constantinople.

It’s no country for old men…

[Xena E]

A small town in Ireland with the name Drogheda often causes problems with international reporters. The correct pronunciation is like "Drawhedda". This is often thoroughly mangled in reports.

Mangled more than Dún Laoghaire?

[TimFox]

Same goes for orthography:
Most people write Turkey, not Türkiye.

The Turkish government has decreed that "Türkiye" is the correct spelling.
Does that only matter to the Turks?

Yes, apparently it does. How many times do you see "Türkiye" written that way?
I've seen it used on exactly one site I read, a fringe political site where people go out of their way to use the "correct" names.
Otherwise it's "Turkey" everywhere I look.
Perhaps that will change someday, but for now the Turkish ("Türkiye"-ish?) gov't. is fighting a losing battle.

You should get out more.  The Turkish tourist people advertise heavily, using their preferred spelling.

[golden_labels]

What are you talking about? It’s Turcja, of course! Don’t confuse official names with common speech, and don’t confuse the country with the state.

For over a century the official name is Türkiye or, in full version, Republic of Türkiye. This is the name of the state and it’s how it should appear in official documents. Similar to how the state I’m citizen of is called Rzeczpospolita Polska, how the committee deciding how state officials should name things decided that Kaliningrad is now Królewiec, or how Trump decreed that Gulf of Mexico is now Gulf of America if referred to by people falling under the government regulation. The government of Türkiye also decided that when the name is used in English, its short name should stay Türkiye, whereas e.g. Poland decided it should be Poland (instead of native Polska).

Independent of that, recently United Nations corrected their use of the name to Türkiye (instead of Turkey), and Turkish(!) government promotes that name abroad. But neither Türkiye, nor anybody else ever changed how the common speech refers to either the country or the state. And while — as all nationalists — they also insist on using the same word for the country, and for the same reason it became popular trait among some Turkish people, this is not the norm. So far it’s still Turkey in English, when referring to the country, and words related to people, language, culture, and ethnicity are rooted in Turk and Turkey. The adjective, as marked with the exclamation mark above, is still Turkish. Not… well, Türkiye didn’t offer any adjective. Neither did they offer any other words that would be derived from Türkiye.

It can’t be blindly assumed that a new name can’t be adopted. Changes in country names are nothing unusual, do happen, and do work. New generations of speakers come and they use a new word. Your grandparents would also think the same of word Turkey, as to them it was Ottomans (Ottoman Empire). Now nobody is surprised with Sri Lanka (formerly Ceylon), somewhat less common Czechia (in the past referred to with the unwieldy Czech Republic), Myanmar (Burma), Burkina Faso (Upper Volta), or Zimbabwe (Rhodesia).

The main issue with adoption of Türkiye in English, outside of official contexts, is that the only accepted spelling includes letter ‘ü’ which most people can’t type on their keyboards or phones. The second problem is the ‘iy’ which can’t be easily derived from word’s sound.

[tooki]

How do you say: buoyant and buoyancy? Is it boo-ee ant and boo ee n see?

Nope, doesn't follow: it's "boy-ent" and "boy-en-see".

No it isn’t! It’s “bwoy-ent” and “bwoy-en-see”.

Nope, wrong! It's not pronounced like that here (U.S.).

I'm talking about how people actually say it, not what the prescribed pronunciation might be.
Like in movies and TV, which are pretty representative of what how the general pop. talks.

Where do you suppose it's spoken like that? Not here it ain't.

(Reminder: I'm American. American English is my native language. And also, there is no "prescribed pronunciation" for English, since there exists no language authority for English, unlike many languages.)

Anyway, perhaps you're right about boy-ent being the most common. But bwoy-ent doesn't seem particularly rare, perhaps it is regional. Boy-ent seems to be what is universally documented in dictionaries, but then some of the audio sample pronunciations (regardless of dialect) actually say bwoy-ent. (Bear in mind that the "w" is generally subtle, not emphasized.)

Heck, some speakers seem to use both: https://youtu.be/nol0_4qxzb0?si=XLgyeLFblsVhqrlG&t=649 uses bwoy-ent at 10:49, but boy-ent elsewhere.

Here's a very clear sample of bwoy-en-see: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/nQCtq6YFCSk

[IanB]

Hmm. I'm not sure they are saying bwoy-en-cee as such, it seems more like they are strongly aspirating or emphasizing the initial B, as in Bh-oy-en-cee?

There is no accounting for regional accents though. I am rather amused by the "fairy service" that was introduced by the DoT here at time 11:07: https://youtu.be/nol0_4qxzb0?si=TG_ouZgFK7b77HMM&t=667

[pdenisowski]

You might be interested to know that you have actually nailed the London* accent!

Thank you!  Next time I'll do it with my West Country (Bristol / Cotswolds) accent  (including my favorite word - cider!)  

[pdenisowski]

(Reminder: I'm American. American English is my native language. And also, there is no "prescribed pronunciation" for English, since there exists no language authority for English, unlike many languages.)

You clearly need to spend more time with people from the UK - they will (attempt to) disabuse you of this notion every chance they get   

[negativ3]

A trip from Twatt to Shitterton in the UK involves a Ferry. YMMV.

[Analog Kid]

OK Cartman, calm down 😁

Oh shit. Now I gotta go watch South Park.

Well, you sound like South Park 

Zing!

Guess that one went right over your head.

[Analog Kid]

Same goes for orthography:
Most people write Turkey, not Türkiye.

The Turkish government has decreed that "Türkiye" is the correct spelling.
Does that only matter to the Turks?

Yes, apparently it does. How many times do you see "Türkiye" written that way?
I've seen it used on exactly one site I read, a fringe political site where people go out of their way to use the "correct" names.
Otherwise it's "Turkey" everywhere I look.
Perhaps that will change someday, but for now the Turkish ("Türkiye"-ish?) gov't. is fighting a losing battle.

You should get out more.  The Turkish tourist people advertise heavily, using their preferred spelling.

Well, so what?
They can advocate all they want for their preferred spelling. Does that mean that everyone else will follow it?
So far, people are not adopting that spelling, at least so far as I can tell from everything I read online.

[Analog Kid]

There is no accounting for regional accents though. I am rather amused by the "fairy service" that was introduced by the DoT here at time 11:07: https://youtu.be/nol0_4qxzb0?si=TG_ouZgFK7b77HMM&t=667

You must be quite easily amused; that's exactly the way that word is pronounced here. How do you think it is/should be pronounced?

Essentially, in the U.S, "ferry" == "fairy".

[IanB]

You must be quite easily amused; that's exactly the way that word is pronounced here. How do you think it is/should be pronounced?

Essentially, in the U.S, "ferry" == "fairy".

Sure, it's part of the Mary/merry/marry merger. But it doesn't stop it being funny to imagine fairies carrying people and cars across the water.

In case you are curious, ferry would have a short e sound as in "get", while fairy would have a long air sound as in "air".

[Analog Kid]

In case you are curious, ferry would have a short e sound as in "get", while fairy would have a long air sound as in "air".

Meh. Seems like a distinction without a difference.
But I suppose a cunning linguist could tell them apart, eh?

[Analog Kid]

Speaking of what countries call themselves as opposed to what everyone else calls them, take Hungary.

When I went there in 1995 I learned the real name of the place: Magyarország.

So how many times have you actually seen that name used? Maybe close to zero?

[TimFox]

In case you are curious, ferry would have a short e sound as in "get", while fairy would have a long air sound as in "air".

Meh. Seems like a distinction without a difference.
But I suppose a cunning linguist could tell them apart, eh?

In normal US pronunciation, I can tell and have told the two apart.

[TimFox]

Same goes for orthography:
Most people write Turkey, not Türkiye.

The Turkish government has decreed that "Türkiye" is the correct spelling.
Does that only matter to the Turks?

Yes, apparently it does. How many times do you see "Türkiye" written that way?
I've seen it used on exactly one site I read, a fringe political site where people go out of their way to use the "correct" names.
Otherwise it's "Turkey" everywhere I look.
Perhaps that will change someday, but for now the Turkish ("Türkiye"-ish?) gov't. is fighting a losing battle.

You should get out more.  The Turkish tourist people advertise heavily, using their preferred spelling.

Well, so what?
They can advocate all they want for their preferred spelling. Does that mean that everyone else will follow it?
So far, people are not adopting that spelling, at least so far as I can tell from everything I read online.

I haven’t looked past this thread for the spelling, but I see it many places in print (US publications).
Do you still say Persia?  (It’s roughly equivalent to saying Holland when you mean the Netherlands.)

[IanB]

Meh. Seems like a distinction without a difference.
But I suppose a cunning linguist could tell them apart, eh?

Well, which word in your accent has a short, clipped vowel? The beginning of "enter", perhaps? Probably you can't distinguish them because you have the Mary/marry/merry merger, and your ear has tuned out the difference.

Have a listen:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/pronunciation/english/get
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/pronunciation/english/ferry
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/pronunciation/english/fairy

In general, British accents have short, clipped vowels, where U.S. accents have longer, stretched vowels.

[Analog Kid]

Same goes for orthography:
Most people write Turkey, not Türkiye.

The Turkish government has decreed that "Türkiye" is the correct spelling.
Does that only matter to the Turks?

Yes, apparently it does. How many times do you see "Türkiye" written that way?
I've seen it used on exactly one site I read, a fringe political site where people go out of their way to use the "correct" names.
Otherwise it's "Turkey" everywhere I look.
Perhaps that will change someday, but for now the Turkish ("Türkiye"-ish?) gov't. is fighting a losing battle.

You should get out more.  The Turkish tourist people advertise heavily, using their preferred spelling.

Well, so what?
They can advocate all they want for their preferred spelling. Does that mean that everyone else will follow it?
So far, people are not adopting that spelling, at least so far as I can tell from everything I read online.

I haven’t looked past this thread for the spelling, but I see it many places in print (US publications).
Do you still say Persia?  (It’s roughly equivalent to saying Holland when you mean the Netherlands.)

I went to the New York Times site and did a search for "turkey".
Scrolling past all the roasted-bird recipes I found a link to news stories about the country: https://www.nytimes.com/topic/destination/turkey?searchResultPosition=0

They still use "Turkey" in all their stories.
Remember that this is the Gray Lady, the "newspaper of record".

[Zoli]

Speaking of what countries call themselves as opposed to what everyone else calls them, take Hungary.

When I went there in 1995 I learned the real name of the place: Magyarország.

So how many times have you actually seen that name used? Maybe close to zero?

More(not everything) examples from Europe: Crna Gora - Montenegro, Hrvatska - Croatia, Suomi - Finland; and from the English territories - Cymru.

[Analog Kid]

More(not everything) examples from Europe: Crna Gora - Montenegro, Hrvatska - Croatia, Suomi - Finland; and from the English territories - Cymru.

Yes. Which reminds me of the one name in Europe that I really hate:

The state that ought to be known simply as "Macedonia" isn't allowed to use that name.
Why? Because that name is still hotly contested between Greece, Bulgaria and what should be called Macedonia.

They're required to call themselves "the FYROM", for "the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia".

Those people in the Balkans never forget a thing, whether it happened a year ago or centuries ago. They're fighting over a currently nonexistent kingdom that dates back to Alexander the Great.

[kite31]

or Philip of Macedon

[TimFox]

Turkey is the more common spelling in the United States, but the US State Department has agreed to use Türkiye in formal contexts.
Example:  https://2021-2025.state.gov/turkiye-and-syria-earthquake-response/  from the archived State Department website.
The Turkish government wants the spelling Türkiye used in other languages, to make a single term for their country.

Macedonia is a strange problem, typical of the Balkans (another damned fool thing there, to paraphrase Bismarck).
Greece has a province named Macedonia (Makedonia in transliterated Greek), so having another country with the same name offends Greece.
Historically, the region called Macedonia expanded dramatically after the time of Philip and Alexander, to include Thessaly and other areas, so the entire Roman Macedonia included both Greek and Yugoslav areas.

[sanleontexas]

And it's dammit, dammit, not damnit.

[Analog Kid]

And it's dammit, dammit, not damnit.

I stand (sit, ackshooly) corrected.