Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website

[HuronKing]

If there was a popular right wing social media service the landscape might be different.

I guess you haven't heard of AM radio?  Rush may be gone, but the right wing thrives on Amplitude Modulation.

Yea its a laughable fiction that, somehow, right wing media doesn't reach a wide audience.

Talk Radio, FOX, New York Post, the DailyMail.

Let's also not forget Sinclair Broadcast Group which controls a vast number of local news outlets in the US (up to 40% coverage):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_Broadcast_Group

[james_s]

Uhhhhhhh...........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack

That's totally unrelated to the topic at hand, and that was one riot which unlike the many months of violent and destructive politically motivated riots leading up to it, that one was dealt with swiftly as all of them should have been. It was shut down in hours, and hundreds of people have been arrested and charged, that is exactly how all of the riots should have been handled but weren't. Also it was not particularly violent, as far as I know there was not a shot fired by any of the rioters, they were just a bunch of ignorant goobers that got out of hand and they have been punished accordingly. The only good to come from that is it finally exposed a glaring double standard in that some groups are allowed to riot and destroy with impunity while others are swiftly crushed. I do fine it interesting how much people use that event as a deflection when anyone mentions the scores of larger and more violent riots that took place leading up to it.

[TomKatt]

It is perfectly okay to say you ignore someone and why, but when you start demanding others do so too –– or else –– you go over the line.  It is that simple.  Persuasion via argument is okay, but demanding, especially demanding based on emotive reasons or "I cannot believe you can defend them" -type of emotional manipulation, is never okay.
If we put emotions and beliefs above logic, we should just go back to tribal warfare, before we nuke the entire planet to hell.

I think part of that is what you define as 'cancellation'.

Have any of those examples been explicitly prevented from making their opinions known to the public? 

No.  They might have their megaphones take away, but none have had their freedom of speech curtailed.

[TomKatt]

Uhhhhhhh...........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack

That's totally unrelated to the topic at hand, and that was one riot which unlike the many months of violent and destructive politically motivated riots leading up to it, that one was dealt with swiftly as all of them should have been. It was shut down in hours, and hundreds of people have been arrested and charged, that is exactly how all of the riots should have been handled but weren't. Also it was not particularly violent, as far as I know there was not a shot fired by any of the rioters, they were just a bunch of ignorant goobers that got out of hand and they have been punished accordingly. The only good to come from that is it finally exposed a glaring double standard in that some groups are allowed to riot and destroy with impunity while others are swiftly crushed. I do fine it interesting how much people use that event as a deflection when anyone mentions the scores of larger and more violent riots that took place leading up to it.

Not to go too far off tangent, but there is a decisive difference between a riot and an intent to overthrow a federal government.  And that was the intention of the majority involved on Jan 6, even if they were too unorganized to achieve it.

[james_s]

If there was a popular right wing social media service the landscape might be different.

I guess you haven't heard of AM radio?  Rush may be gone, but the right wing thrives on Amplitude Modulation.

I don't know who that group is, but what's stopping them? They could volunteer right now, but they haven't, and neither has anyone else. For all the talk about violent right wingers there doesn't appear to be any action taking place.

I guess it's going to surprise you to learn that the #1 domestic threat to our nation is Right Wing Extremism...

Hang on, you're calling AM radio social media? Really? Twitter had better look out, 710 AM is taking over 

And you're using a blog post to prove that far right extremism is the #1 domestic threat? Seriously?

I've been liberal all my life but it's getting really hard these days, the left is moving further and further to the left and the right is seeming a lot less threatening. The massive and highly destructive and deadly riots that raged on throughout much of 2020 made a big impression on me, and what was really shocking is the way politicians and leaders not only turned a blind eye to it but in many cases endorsed or actually participated, I remember being shocked and in disbelief, it was eye opening.

[james_s]

Not to go too far off tangent, but there is a decisive difference between a riot and an intent to overthrow a federal government.  And that was the intention of the majority involved on Jan 6, even if they were too unorganized to achieve it.

I don't know that I buy that. They're a bunch of idiots, did they really, genuinely think they were going to overthrow the government? Wouldn't they have come armed and gone in guns blazing if that was what they intended to do? Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe a shot was fired by any of the rioters and I don't remember seeing any of them with guns, despite the fact that anyone that would show up at such an event almost certainly owns a few. And is it really fair to say that the other riots were not similar attempts to overthrow the government? In Portland where I'm originally from rioters attacked the *federal* courthouse almost nightly for over a month. They used explosives that caused damage to the building and attempted to firebomb it. There were multiple police precincts in cities around the nation that were burned to the ground. In at least one incident rioters tried to seal the doors and set the building on fire with officers inside. Numerous police officers were murdered, thousands more injured, many of them seriously, and the leadership was just allowing it to happen. To me that was far, far more scary and serious than a bunch of morons that got out of hand at the capitol. Obviously what happened at the capitol was bad, but it was dealt with as such things should be dealt with. Arrest participants, charge them, and sentence them, shouldn't matter what their politics are, the law is the law.

[TomKatt]

And you're using a blog post to prove that far right extremism is the #1 domestic threat? Seriously?

My bad.  I guess I could have done better than the Council on Foreign Relations summary.  Perhaps something simple like the Dept of Homeland Security is a better example.

[HuronKing]

The massive and highly destructive and deadly riots that raged on throughout much of 2020 made a big impression on me, and what was really shocking is the way politicians and leaders not only turned a blind eye to it but in many cases endorsed or actually participated, I remember being shocked and in disbelief, it was eye opening.

2020 was a picnic compared to the Long Hot Summer of 1967. I don't know how old you might be but even people I know who lived through it are unaware of how totally insane that was:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long,_hot_summer_of_1967

19 people died in the 2020 riots. 85 died in 1967. Whole neighborhoods were utterly destroyed in 1967 - there was nowhere near that level of damage in 2020.

And the fundamental root causes of both riots were the same - police brutality, systemic racism, and economic inequality.

You can read MLK's thoughts on those riots here. His essay could've been written in 2021.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/02/martin-luther-king-jr-the-crisis-in-americas-cities/552536/

The left isn't more radical than it was 60 years ago... it's just that the same bullshit exists today as existed 60 years ago. Plus, in 2020, we were all forced to deal with the additional pressure of being cooped up in our homes for months on end.

It's amazing that the 2020 riots weren't MORE explosive than they were. But make no mistake - it was over the same issues as 1967.

PS
Link to the Atlantic article without the paywall. I think it's BS to hide a historical document behind a paywall:
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theatlantic.com%2Fmagazine%2Farchive%2F2018%2F02%2Fmartin-luther-king-jr-the-crisis-in-americas-cities%2F552536%2F

[james_s]

And you're using a blog post to prove that far right extremism is the #1 domestic threat? Seriously?

My bad.  I guess I could have done better than the Council on Foreign Relations summary.  Perhaps something simple like the Dept of Homeland Security is a better example.

I still don't buy that it's the #1 threat. I agree it's a threat, I agree it should be monitored closely, I agree it absolutely should not be tolerated, but #1 threat? I'm sorry but it's just really difficult to take that seriously after 3 years of watching actual violence, actual destruction, actual rioting, arson, vandalism, actual murders and death taking place, and I struggle to think of any examples in recent times that were committed by right wing nuts. Timothy McVey was a notable one, but that happened decades ago. There was that case of the guy that blew up his RV downtown somewhere with him in it that could arguably be called terrorism so that could be one. But these are minor compared to what has actually been unfolding. I'm hopeful that the government does their job and prevents ANY terrorist threats.

[Kim Christensen]

Radio stations stopping playing something isn't cancellation, unless they did so out of fear because of bullying by the public. Radio stations firing DJs over playing their songs is absolutely wrong in my opinion but once again it is not the same, there is no outrage mob demanding they be fired, so this is still not being cancelled.

So what you're saying is that Scott Adams wasn't cancelled at all.

[HuronKing]

and I struggle to think of any examples in recent times that were committed by right wing nuts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_El_Paso_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Dallas_courthouse_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poway_synagogue_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_synagogue_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlottesville_car_attack

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Buffalo_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsey_Hanukkah_stabbing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atomwaffen_Division_members_in_the_United_States_who_faced_criminal_charges#Timothy_Wilson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Springs_nightclub_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Pe%C3%B1a#Shootings

Not an exhaustive list.

You seriously missed all of this? 

[james_s]

2020 was a picnic compared to the Long Hot Summer of 1967. I don't know how old you might be but even people I know who lived through it are unaware of how totally insane that was:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long,_hot_summer_of_1967

19 people died in the 2020 riots. 85 died in 1967. Whole neighborhoods were utterly destroyed in 1967 - there was nowhere near that level of damage in 2020.

And the fundamental root causes of both riots were the same - police brutality, systemic racism, and economic inequality.

I wasn't alive in 1967, my parents were teenagers and not even dating yet at the time so it's not particularly relevant to me but I am aware of it.

I do know that the event was catastrophic though, many of those neighborhoods never recovered from the destruction while others took decades to recover and the people that suffered the most from it are the same ones that did the rioting. It is very likely responsible for the election of Nixon and a large push for law & order. It was counterproductive and made the problem worse, not better, exactly as the 2020 riots have done. We haven't fixed police brutality, we've demonized the entire career, caused large numbers of the best officers to leave and more of those remaining are the ones that either like the power or can't find a job doing something else, the Tyre Nichols incident is a shining example of this. Homicide rates have skyrocketed, again disproportionately affecting the groups we're supposedly trying to help. Inner city minority owned businesses were disproportionately destroyed, again affecting the people we're supposedly trying to help. Violence, crime and drugs have decimated low income urban populations. These riots are catastrophic events that don't help anybody, they make things much worse. If anything the long hot summer should be a warning of how absolutely disastrous it is to allow rioting to happen.

[tszaboo]

and I struggle to think of any examples in recent times that were committed by right wing nuts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_El_Paso_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Dallas_courthouse_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poway_synagogue_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_synagogue_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlottesville_car_attack

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Buffalo_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsey_Hanukkah_stabbing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atomwaffen_Division_members_in_the_United_States_who_faced_criminal_charges#Timothy_Wilson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Springs_nightclub_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Pe%C3%B1a#Shootings

Not an exhaustive list.

You seriously missed all of this? 

More off topic whatabaoutism?
Actually, do you have this list compiled ready to go?

[james_s]

Those are isolated cases of nutjobs, I spot checked a few and in the cases I checked the perpetrators were either arrested and charged or killed. Tragic as they are, they are still not something that feels nearly as threatening to me as violent riots, especially violent riots where most of the people involved are not punished. Or the exploding crime, homicides and drug deaths due to policies that allow people to get away with it cumulatively kill far more people than a few nuts, and unlike those nuts, nobody seems to be held accountable. This is getting really far off topic though, and I really don't think anyone is going to have their mind changed either way. I think we can make a lot of improvements by simply not tolerating crime or violence from anybody, and by making an effort to maintain a culture where people can agree to disagree without it turning into a fight, without anyone having to worry about their safety or their livelihood, and where mob behavior and bullying is not tolerated, by anyone towards anyone, "but this person/group did that!" is not an excuse. It's not that hard.

[HuronKing]

We haven't fixed police brutality, we've demonized the entire career, caused large numbers of the best officers to leave and more of those remaining are the ones that either like the power or can't find a job doing something else, the Tyre Nichols incident is a shining example of this. Homicide rates have skyrocketed, again disproportionately affecting the groups we're supposedly trying to help. Inner city minority owned businesses were disproportionately destroyed, again affecting the people we're supposedly trying to help. Violence, crime and drugs have decimated low income urban populations. These riots are catastrophic events that don't help anybody, they make things much worse. If anything the long hot summer should be a warning of how absolutely disastrous it is to allow rioting to happen.

The riots are a natural consequence of years of systemic oppression. To stop the riots from happening again after they end, you have to fix the issues. That was the point MLK was trying to make if you read his article. We (as a country) didn't do a whole lot to fix many of these issues and so everything rather predictably blew up again. Many of the issues regarding individual freedom and addressing systemic racism are the same today as they were in 1967 - and as you've pointed out, quite possibly worse. So, is the left-wing more radical today than it was in 1967? I don't think so - except maybe more people can openly talk about these issues and directly view evidence of the problems (like all the videos of police brutality that can be widely shared instantly).

About policing, the career and purpose of it needs reform. For one thing, police have NO obligation to actually protect anyone from anything:
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html

The purpose of most police departments is revenue collection (typically targeting poor people who don't have the resources to dispute the tickets). They're tax collectors in disguise:
https://www.arnoldventures.org/stories/when-police-become-tax-collectors
https://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/files/upload_documents/YOU_policing.pdf
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/31/us/police-ticket-quotas-money-funding.html

Maybe reform is a good idea? We have precedent for it. Police used to be the department solely responsible for emergency medical service.
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2015/03/01/389798498/how-pittsburghs-freedom-house-pioneered-paramedic-treatment

Freedom House pioneered the model for dedicated emergency medical personnel:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_House_Ambulance_Service

In a sense you could say... the Pittsburgh police were defunded and resources allocated towards specialized non-police service providers. 

[Nominal Animal]

It is perfectly okay to say you ignore someone and why, but when you start demanding others do so too –– or else –– you go over the line.  It is that simple.  Persuasion via argument is okay, but demanding, especially demanding based on emotive reasons or "I cannot believe you can defend them" -type of emotional manipulation, is never okay.
If we put emotions and beliefs above logic, we should just go back to tribal warfare, before we nuke the entire planet to hell.

I think part of that is what you define as 'cancellation'.

Demanding others for specific behaviour under the threat of retaliation, yes.  It is as close to 'evil' as I can think of.

Have any of those examples been explicitly prevented from making their opinions known to the public?

You seriously believe there is a difference in stopping someone, and having someone stand behind that person with a proverbial baseball bat saying that you're free to say whatever you want, but here's the consequences if you don't know what is good for you?

I do not see a meaningful difference between the two.

I do see you are very emotionally defending behaviour that you would not accept if it was targeted towards yourself, simply because you dislike the current target.  This is unfair, and leads to social dysfunction.

The main effect of cancellation is not that some celebrity figures have to look for different channels to push their jobs.  It is the fear factor, making ordinary people believe there is that proverbial baseball-bat wielding person behind them, watching what they utter.  This control is purely evil.  Why do you defend it?  Don't you see how damaging it is to everyone, regardless who does it and who is targeted?

[HuronKing]

More whatabaoutism?

No, just that when someone says "I care about left-wing violence because I can't think of any right-wing violence" then it deserves to be pointed out how many people have been murdered by right-wing nutters.

And one of the speakers at CPAC straight up said they want to 'eradicate transgenderism in public life.'

Of course, they tried to say they don't mean to eradicate transgender people...

But that's about as believable as someone saying "I want to eradicate Judaism but I don't mean eradicate Jews..."

And at some point another nutter is going to walk into a nightclub and murder a bunch of friends of my friends...

PS
But I think it's too offtopic now. I'll stop. Carry on.

PPS

Actually, do you have this list compiled ready to go?

No, I remembered the Colorado Shooting (because I was acquainted with people who knew some of the victims) and the Buffalo Shooting because I have a friend in upstate New York who lives near that store and the Poway Synagogue Stabbing because I have Jewish friends in San Diego whose safety I was concerned for.

But, very helpfully, Wikipedia does have a compiled list ready to go which reminded me of a bunch of incidents I did recall upon seeing them listed when I went to go pull references to the previous three rather major attacks that, aside from personally affecting me, were national headlines:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_right-wing_terrorist_attacks

So, there ya go.

[magic]

Can't help but notice that all those problems, no matter how diverse, somehow originated from one problematic continent

Europe, most notably Germany.

Arguably both Christian extremists and LGB++ can trace their roots to Europe, but it was somewhere else where they really got a chance to flourish. If Australia was a penal colony, America was the crank colony through all that time and it shows.

I looked but could not find any person or group suggesting that blacks should write off whites and just get the heck away from them and were not held accountable in some way...  Even the BLM movement does not suggest that.

I don't know how long you looked for it but there is apparently a Wikipedia page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaxit

I don't see it happening at any serious scale. But to say that blacks would be "held accountable" for encouraging it is just

But it's ok for people to say that if you're a man that likes to wear dresses, you're actually a woman and just don't know it yet.

Um...  Not sure everyone would agree with that.  I, for one, wouldn't think that's OK to remark to someone in public.   I might think that to myself, but it wouldn't be appropriate to tell that to a guy wearing a dress.

You would be thrilled to know that there are pervs walking around places like reddit and convincing teenagers with weird fetishes that they are trannies in denial and need to go on estrogen.

[Kim Christensen]

Canadian truckers when that protest was ongoing. They had their bank account shut down. People tried donating them money, and their bank refused to run the transaction. Tell me, that you are not OK with this please.

As a Canadian I am 100% in favor of that. The leaders of the Convoy had a manifesto for overthrowing the federal government and putting themselves in charge of the nation. When I first heard about it, I thought it couldn't be true, so I went on their website and sure enough, there it was spelled out in black and white. The website was eventually amended to remove that incriminating evidence.
They were the most misinformed protest group. When the leaders (Tamara Lich and husband) were hauled in front of a Canadian judge, they quoted the US constitution and that they were exercising their "First amendment rights". Several times the judge had to remind them that the American constitution does not apply in Canada.
What was particularly silly about the so called "Trucker" protest, was they were complaining about having to be vaccinated to enter the USA... But it wasn't the Canadian government preventing them, but US law. So even if the Canadian government had given in to their demands, they still wouldn't be able to across the border into the USA. In the end, the protest became more about overthrowing the government rather than anything else.

[magic]

(Not to say that the backlash doesn't exist, but just look at how many attempts there were to cancel Kiwifarms and how lauded those were on Twitter)

The farmers are special kind of scumbags though, at least some of them. Besides what they say (which is probably what most Twitter crowd hates them for already) there is a second controversy about what they do, which is pretty serious stalking of some of their "cows" and being dicks to them to provoke reaction. I would feel uneasy banning them, but this means throwing under the bus the wellbeing and sporadically lives of some (arguably too self-obsessed for their own good) people.

[SiliconWizard]

The main effect of cancellation is not that some celebrity figures have to look for different channels to push their jobs.  It is the fear factor, making ordinary people believe there is that proverbial baseball-bat wielding person behind them, watching what they utter.  This control is purely evil.

Yep. This is entirely political again, and the main goal is not to target individual celebrities in itself (which has virtually no large-scale impact per se), but to use it as examples to control the rest of the people.

This is the modern equivalent of the roman decimation (which I have no doubt was a concept used way before the Romans already.) The concept is probably almost as old as humanity, at least when we started living in large groups.

[KaneTW]

(Not to say that the backlash doesn't exist, but just look at how many attempts there were to cancel Kiwifarms and how lauded those were on Twitter)

The farmers are special kind of scumbags though, at least some of them. Besides what they say (which is probably what most Twitter crowd hates them for already) there is a second controversy about what they do, which is pretty serious stalking of some of their "cows" and being dicks to them to provoke reaction. I would feel uneasy banning them, but this means throwing under the bus the wellbeing and sporadically lives of some (arguably too self-obsessed for their own good) people.

Kiwifarmers are a mixed bunch and there's definitely some that touch the poop too much. But the actions of certain individuals don't remove their human rights to express themselves and mock people for being stupid.

[MK14]

In some cases, this 'cancellation' culture, seems to became wildly over-sensitive, and unreasonably nasty.

Typical examples, are where a prominently successful, publicly well known (in at least some circles, such as sports, music or films etc), is perhaps 32 years old now, and doing really, really well.

Then someone brings up a tweet (or similar), that person made when they were aged around 17 (and perhaps still drunk, after a long late night out), and it was only between their couple of hundred (or thousand, perhaps), followers, a long, long time before they were famous.  Where they said something, somewhat racist (or breaking some other, modern day rules).

It then gets published and complained about on the news and / or social media and / or somewhere, and they end up cancelled and / or forced to resign and apologize.

It just seems so unfair, unreasonable and crazy.  What use to be called a witch-hunt, perhaps.

[aeberbach]

Hang on, you're calling AM radio social media? Really? Twitter had better look out, 710 AM is taking over 

The way it's going under Musk, 710 AM has a better than even chance.

[magic]

Kiwifarmers are a mixed bunch and there's definitely some that touch the poop too much. But the actions of certain individuals don't remove their human rights to express themselves and mock people for being stupid.

Yet I can't help but feel that KF would have less troubles if they put more effort into at least pretending that they are about mocking stupidity and not actively provoking it. There is obviously nothing stopping any member from choosing to stir shit up, but forum posts encouraging such activities are rather bad taste and maybe not a brilliant idea.

I'm just saying that if Null tolerates this shit and later cries about free speech when his forum is dropped by one ISP after another, doesn't it perhaps make him a lolcow too?