Dilbert loses newspapers, publishers, distributor, and possibly its website

[Nominal Animal]

This is the modern equivalent of the roman decimation (which I have no doubt was a concept used way before the Romans already.) The concept is probably almost as old as humanity, at least when we started living in large groups.

Yes.  Collective punishment is used to remind the cohort that they themselves must police their own.  A core part of that was that they were divided in groups of ten, and each group would draw lots to see who would be killed.  The other nine had to kill the unlucky one.

This kind of in-group policing occurs in other social species as well, because it assists in survival in dangerous environments.

It is the same mechanism that kept people paying their dues to their churches in Europe for centuries.  Not the fear of the Spanish Inquisition (outside Spain in 1500-1800), but the fear of being excommunicated; canceled.

[tszaboo]

More whatabaoutism?

No, just that when someone says "I care about left-wing violence because I can't think of any right-wing violence" then it deserves to be pointed out how many people have been murdered by right-wing nutters.

At this point I'm just going to disengage with the discussion with you and I encourage others to not feed the troll
You don't lke what we are talking about here, so you repeatedly go off topic just to get the thread locked.
Reminds me about that leaked reddit moderator manifesto (leftist, if you are wondering) where they were intentionally posting CP images to spaces that they found going against the message just to get them locked.

[HuronKing]

More whatabaoutism?

No, just that when someone says "I care about left-wing violence because I can't think of any right-wing violence" then it deserves to be pointed out how many people have been murdered by right-wing nutters.

At this point I'm just going to disengage with the discussion with you and I encourage others to not feed the troll
You don't lke what we are talking about here, so you repeatedly go off topic just to get the thread locked.
Reminds me about that leaked reddit moderator manifesto (leftist, if you are wondering) where they were intentionally posting CP images to spaces that they found going against the message just to get them locked.

You should pay more attention. I was commenting on this particular remark,

For all the talk about violent right wingers there doesn't appear to be any action taking place.

It is categorically NOT true that there is no action from violent right wingers and there is tons of evidence to back that up - in fact way more evidence than would be appropriate to get into here so I just shared links for people to do their own research. Stating this fact doesn't excuse or diminish left-wing violence... why would anyone think it does?

I will say its incredibly weird you associate sharing this data at a relevant point in a discussion to be equivalent to posting CP to get a thread locked. That's trollish behavior and poisoning of wells if I ever saw it. 

[TimFox]

With respect to "left-wing" and "right-wing" violence, I invoke a plague on both their houses.

[vk6zgo]

With respect to "left-wing" and "right-wing" violence, I invoke a plague on both their houses.

We had a real plague on everybody's houses, but halfwits chose to pretend it didn't exist.

[EEVblog]

Adams may well be better off ultimately if he creates an audience drawn from those attuned to his message on a platform that is supportive.

I agree with that and really believe that has been his intention the entire time.  I think the whole thing is a PR stunt designed to transition his work to new mediums.

Simply not true and against everything he has said publicly and done for years, and has also said about this specific issue. I know because I actually listen to the daily live shows.

[EEVblog]

I got my Dilbert book from Amazon, so it seems they are still selling them. This is contrary to what Adams said. Maybe it's different in the US?

[magic]

With respect to "left-wing" and "right-wing" violence, I invoke a plague on both their houses.

Those not willing to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live
It's true simply because it can be made true by anyone wishing so.

Romans believed in Si vis pacem, para bellum and Americans believe in Age of Aquarius.

This is the reason for SJWs being SJWs. If you exist in a socially constructed reality where everybody loves everybody except for the fascists, then anyone showing you anything less than total admiration is, of course, a fascist. Once this is established, there is no shortage of mental gymnastic tricks available to "deconstruct" and "reconstruct" anything anyone says as aggression. Normal people call such behavior "paranoid delusion", but Americans have been calling it "brave and powerful" for so long that there are now entire generations which have never experienced any other way of thinking. The process of demoralization is complete and irreversible.

This logic finds its way even to everyday non-political life. An American recently came to this forum for advice without giving much context and explanation what he wants to achieve. Several people asked for clarification, somebody wrote a long "brain dump" on the topic prefixed with "you probably won't even bother reading it" and got called "gatekeeper" and "kinda fashy" by the OP. Similar attitude was expressed by that "Sherlock" guy, may he rest in peace; everybody criticizing anything about his project was "obviously there only to discourage him from working on it and ruin the thread for everyone".

This is what happens when you fail to distinguish between being your true self and runaway narcissism for a few successive generations.

To complete the American genocide, I hereby invoke plague on all the passive centrists who tolerated nonsense and drama brewing up around them for so long.
No survivors

[tooki]

But it's ok for people to say that if you're a man that likes to wear dresses, you're actually a woman and just don't know it yet.

Nobody says this.

What people are saying is that others don’t have the right to tell someone what they do or don’t identify as.

[KaneTW]

But it's ok for people to say that if you're a man that likes to wear dresses, you're actually a woman and just don't know it yet.

Nobody says this.

What people are saying is that others don’t have the right to tell someone what they do or don’t identify as.

People are absolutely saying that. It's extremely common nowadays.

Sure, nobody can tell you what to identify as. But just as nobody can tell you what to identify as, nobody can tell me what to identify you as. Society has no duty to accept anyone's live action roleplay as fact (and when someone doesn't even make an attempt to pass, or claims they're a woman one day and a man the next day-- that's LARPing.)

Even more: If you're on the internet, I do not care about what you are physically or what you identify as. You're just words on a screen. But once people start to brandish their gender as an identity, use it to deflect criticism, or use it as an excuse to harass others, that's too much.

And before you go again with "this doesn't happen!!" -- look around. People severely harassing streamers for playing the new Harry Potter game. Get into any discussion online with someone that has buzzwords or gender identities in their bio, and chances are as soon they'll disagree with you they'll just call you racist or transphobic or whatever and throw a shitfit.


It's all just attention-seeking and/or making others miserable. To look at it form another perspective: if you're truly feeling like you have the wrong sex, why would you make being "trans" your identity? It'd be the unfortunate reality that you're trying to move away from. Why highlight it? Especially on the internet, where in most cases no one will ever know?

[tooki]

Can't help but notice that all those problems, no matter how diverse, somehow originated from one problematic continent

Europe, most notably Germany.

Arguably both Christian extremists and LGB++ can trace their roots to Europe, but it was somewhere else where they really got a chance to flourish. If Australia was a penal colony, America was the crank colony through all that time and it shows.

First of all, LGBT+ isn’t a religion, never mind extremism, and it’s outrageous and offensive for you to equate them.

Second, LGBT+ doesn’t “trace its roots to Europe”. It’s not a movement. It’s something that exists in humanity, and always has. The only thing that varies by culture is acceptance. Acceptance is something that varies cyclically throughout time and culture. (It’s a complete myth that it’s anything new, that it was always decried in the past, etc.)

What we LGBT+ people do have the right to, and will fight to defend, is our right to exist and enjoy the same rights as our non-LGBT+ equals. Don’t expect us to just be quiet as you silence and abuse us.

And no, you don’t get to whine that we’re making a fuss just because we will no longer tolerate your abuse. When we are treated as equals, when we stop being attacked legally, verbally and physically, then we’ll shut up.

[tooki]

But it's ok for people to say that if you're a man that likes to wear dresses, you're actually a woman and just don't know it yet.

Nobody says this.

What people are saying is that others don’t have the right to tell someone what they do or don’t identify as.

People are absolutely saying that. It's extremely common nowadays.

No it isn’t, and the examples you provided aren’t examples of it.

Sure, nobody can tell you what to identify as. But just as nobody can tell you what to identify as, nobody can tell me what to identify you as.

Forget about trans issues: if you’re a cisgender man, and someone keeps referring to you as “miss”, do you not have the right to tell them “uh, sorry, it’s actually “mister””? Respecting someone’s identity is one of the most fundamental types of basic respect, which is why forms of address are so important in so many cultures.

It's all just attention-seeking and/or making others miserable. To look at it form another perspective: if you're truly feeling like you have the wrong sex, why would you make being "trans" your identity? It'd be the unfortunate reality that you're trying to move away from. Why highlight it? Especially on the internet, where in most cases no one will ever know?

I guess you don’t actually know any trans people, or you’d know what you’re saying here is complete bullshit.

Most trans people want nothing more than to blend in. Being trans (=being born in the body of the opposite gender) is a circumstance over which they had no control. The goal in transitioning is to align the outward gender with their “own” gender. If they’re lucky, it goes so well that nobody even notices. If they’re not so lucky (like with trans women who transition later in life) it’s often very hard to “pass as female”, and they have no choice but to be obviously trans.

Now, you’re gonna say “but all these kids with trans flags on their insta profiles!” Well, newsflash, some people are comfortable enough to share such things, so that others know they’re not alone. Some are activists who see the injustice and act to fight it.

What you don’t see is all the trans people who simply don’t state they’re trans, and who pass well enough that you didn’t even notice. But of course that means is that you assumed they’re not trans. Point is, you don’t always know, and you can’t say “because every trans person who advertises their being trans advertises being trans, every trans person advertises being trans.”

[tooki]

It is categorically NOT true that there is no action from violent right wingers and there is tons of evidence to back that up - in fact way more evidence than would be appropriate to get into here so I just shared links for people to do their own research. Stating this fact doesn't excuse or diminish left-wing violence... why would anyone think it does?

I will say its incredibly weird you associate sharing this data at a relevant point in a discussion to be equivalent to posting CP to get a thread locked. That's trollish behavior and poisoning of wells if I ever saw it. 

Yep. It’s the typical right-winger projection: accuse the left of doing the same things they do constantly, while pretending they never do it. Then they attempt to gaslight us by fighting not against what the left actually says and does, but on the exaggerated or fictitious things the right claims the left says and does. (Like the claim earlier in this thread about the left pushing for 9th-month abortions.)

[EEVblog]

Tooki + others, all this talk ends now or I'm deleting your posts. Do not derail this thread any further.

[tszaboo]

I figured out what's wrong with the download script I've been using. Every Sunday comic is jpeg instead of gif after 2000, so that's why it wasn't downloading it well. I had to fix it a few places, but it seems to work now. When I have some time I'll make it available on github.

https://gist.github.com/tszaboo/fb9aaff88f802c3a1de961faddc60fbc
Forked from BaloneyGeek. It seems to work ok now, but the script is not near perfect. Hacked exceptions and stuff like that. If someone has more patience for programming pls fix.

[TomKatt]

Adams may well be better off ultimately if he creates an audience drawn from those attuned to his message on a platform that is supportive.

I agree with that and really believe that has been his intention the entire time.  I think the whole thing is a PR stunt designed to transition his work to new mediums.

Simply not true and against everything he has said publicly and done for years, and has also said about this specific issue. I know because I actually listen to the daily live shows.

No disrespect, but if we could take everyone at their word we wouldn't need much of a court system and politicians would be unemployed.  Actions speak louder than words.  And if you look through his history, this is hardly the first time he has skirted with controversy on these issues.  So he knew what the outcome was going to be, and did it anyway.

We only know Adams through what he says and does - nobody other than himself, his family and possibly close friends really know Adams.  I find it interesting that even many of his acquaintances appear to have been shocked by this incident - they say that is not the man they (thought they) knew.

No matter how you slice it, Adams knowingly based his comments on a dubious 'poll'.   Although he now appears to be trying to walk back his comments as to suggest he didn't mean "all blacks", that is not what he said.  Neither did he publicly express any of the concern over the poll results that he expressed to a few associates.  If he is trying to portray this incident as some kind of 'shock awakening' to further discussion in order to resolve things, he failed.  I may not be a genius, but I think I'm astute enough to discern some clever ploy towards discourse upon social issues requiring resolution.  And if somehow that is the case, I wonder how he anticipated his actions working towards that goal when the setup was so convoluted as to be misunderstood by so many listeners.

Certainly there is room for debate on the topic of whether 'cancellation' was appropriate, or whether it ever is.  But it will take a lot more explaining from him to persuade me he had any other motivation than to rile things up for his own sake somehow.

EDIT - Dave, as much as I like and respect you and watched years of video footage I obviously do not 'know' you.  As Linus once commented, "for all you know I kill baby bunnies for a hobby" (I'm assuming that you do not lol).  Neither do I "know" any of the many posters here in the forums for whom I have developed some respect.  Likewise, for all you know I drink the blood of infants in the basement of a Wash DC pizza parlor (I don't - I hate pizza).

[TomKatt]

Have any of those examples been explicitly prevented from making their opinions known to the public?

You seriously believe there is a difference in stopping someone, and having someone stand behind that person with a proverbial baseball bat saying that you're free to say whatever you want, but here's the consequences if you don't know what is good for you?

I do not see a meaningful difference between the two.

I do see you are very emotionally defending behaviour that you would not accept if it was targeted towards yourself, simply because you dislike the current target.  This is unfair, and leads to social dysfunction.

The main effect of cancellation is not that some celebrity figures have to look for different channels to push their jobs.  It is the fear factor, making ordinary people believe there is that proverbial baseball-bat wielding person behind them, watching what they utter.  This control is purely evil.  Why do you defend it?  Don't you see how damaging it is to everyone, regardless who does it and who is targeted?

Life has consequences.  Everything you do has consequences.  Social peer pressure is nothing new, and I think motivated just as much good as it has been possibly abused for evil.  The only people who speak their mind with no filter in place whatsoever are people we call mentally ill along the lines of Aspergers.  Society is founded on more unwritten laws as there are written ones.

Sorry, but I can't imagine that because someone like Alex Jones is 'cancelled' for spewing lies, conspiracy theories and other random filth that results in some kind of social grievance because others are now afraid to speak their views.   If a person believes their opinions are important enough, they will bear that weight.  And even for the Alex Jones example, his 'cancellation' has not resulted in him being 'silenced'.  Similarly, Scott Adams has not been 'silenced' despite newspaper outlets dropping his Dilbert strip - even if you believe his 'cancellation' is wrong supporters can still view his material online or through book purchases.  Likewise, although there may exist examples of people with opposite beliefs "getting away with it", that doesn't excuse what is considered socially "wrong".

I also think it is a bit naive to overlook the opposite force in today's world - that a constant bombardment of opinions and suggestions can manipulate others into beliefs they might not otherwise have had.  Adams is on record admiring Trump for his ability to manipulate an audience.   The premise is also demonstrated by the irony that despite living in a world where information and facts are more immediately available to everyone, gaslighting, conspiracy theories and social manipulation are at all time highs as people gravitate towards the echo chamber that aligns with their personal bias.  Granted, this is a dangerous issue and I don't know what a good answer is.  But I do not believe that simply ignoring it by thinking that everyone will be able to identify truth on their own is the best answer either - somewhere there needs to be some social pushback against what society believes is wrong.  And if you truly believe that social 'fear' factors are evil, I hope you are protesting against every organized religion known to man.

[AndyBeez]

I must say that I gave up my life in the corporate cubicle a long time ago now.

Must be a bad place for millennials and junior genzeds that, if Dilbert is anything to go by, absolutely nothing has changed in the world of softwierd engineering. Okay, today they're all using Apple products and spending their ten minute lunch breaks trawling insta-media, maintaining their LinkedIn profile up to the day, ordering Dilbert 2023 Calendars online and, wishing they could land that magic job in San Fran writing crypto scripts for the next big digital voodoo. But in their heart-of-hearts they know the option is simply, either go live broke on a beach for next decade or, spend their life in one long eat-sleep-code-repeat loop, interspersed with days stuck in traffic on the beltway. Plus ca change.

Long live life's Dilberts.

EDIT: I've spent a lot of time on beaches.

[Black Phoenix]

I must say that I gave up my life in the corporate cubicle a long time ago now.

Must be a bad place for millennials and junior genzeds that, if Dilbert is anything to go by, absolutely nothing has changed in the world of softwierd engineering. Okay, today they're all using Apple products and spending their ten minute lunch breaks trawling insta-media, maintaining their LinkedIn profile up to the day, ordering Dilbert 2023 Calendars online and, wishing they could land that magic job in San Fran writing crypto scripts for the next big digital voodoo. But in their heart-of-hearts they know the option is simply, either go live broke on a beach for next decade or, spend their life in one long eat-sleep-code-repeat loop, interspersed with days stuck in traffic on the beltway. Plus ca change.

Long live life's Dilberts.

As someone who was the OP of this thread and this is my second reply here, this is probably the most sensible and down to earth post of all this thread.

[RANT]
And was what I expected to turn into, not what it turned to. But again I should know that I SHOULDN'T POST TOPICS AS THIS...

They always turn into the same thing over and over again.

Same as that Keysight new bench PSU - https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-keysight-dc-power-supply-announced!/

I was interested in knowing more about it, what kind of uses, design choices, heck even see a teardown of it. Specially with how knowledgeable most users are here, way above my knowledge level, it is always a joy to learn.

What did we got, a big conversation how the brand doesn't support hobbyists and stopped with someone asking for their posts to be moved elsewhere.

While I still wanted to geek out about a equipment that I KNOW I DON'T HAVE MONEY FOR OR I'M NOT THE MARKET TARGET.
[/RANT]

That's why I take, sometimes months, of away time from this forum and other types of media as reddit. When things start to turn into more noise than things I enjoy to learn and see, then it is time for me to do a break. And I think that again I'm almost at the time I need another break from here...

I start to understand what the user ataradov said once:

The thing is, I don't want cooking, so don't subscribe to cooking forums. I like electronics, so I subscribe to electronics forum.

If following the forum becomes too much work, I abandon the forum. I know, most people won't care. But if forum becomes too noisy to be useful, and more people leave or don't stick around, then you get a dead forum.

[fourfathom]

[RANT] [...] [/RANT]

All good points, and I, too have abandoned other forums when the SNR got too annoying.

But remember that you (or I) do not own a thread.  It goes where people take it.  Hey, that reminds me...

[TomKatt]

All in all, I've found that the posts here are more respectful than you'd find in many other forums.

And this is the 'general chat' group after all... 

[james_s]

All in all, I've found that the posts here are more respectful than you'd find in many other forums.

And this is the 'general chat' group after all...

I think it's mostly down to level headed moderators that have found the near perfect balance between letting conversation flow and the place becoming a total off topic free for all. I have seen piss poor moderation totally ruin a forum. Like cases where some threads are allowed to rage on full of off topic noise while others get shut down for the most minor things. The most irritating thing I've seen is where the moderator just has to get in the last word so they will post a reply that is criticizing someone and then lock the thread so that person can't defend themselves. Here people are generally allowed to chat IF they remain respectful, and stay off of a few certain really hot button topics that inevitably get people riled up.

[Zero999]

That's why I take, sometimes months, of away time from this forum and other types of media as reddit. When things start to turn into more noise than things I enjoy to learn and see, then it is time for me to do a break. And I think that again I'm almost at the time I need another break from here...

I start to understand what the user ataradov said once:

The thing is, I don't want cooking, so don't subscribe to cooking forums. I like electronics, so I subscribe to electronics forum.

If following the forum becomes too much work, I abandon the forum. I know, most people won't care. But if forum becomes too noisy to be useful, and more people leave or don't stick around, then you get a dead forum.

I see no need to take a break from here. It's a large forum. You don't have to follow the parts which don't interest or annoy you. If a thread starts to drift off topic and you lose interest, just ignore it and move on. Yes, it can be a little frustrating if it was your thread, but going off-topic is normal, you could have simply had no replies at all. The original poster has no rights or ownership of a thread, just because they started it.

All in all, I've found that the posts here are more respectful than you'd find in many other forums.

And this is the 'general chat' group after all...

I think it's mostly down to level headed moderators that have found the near perfect balance between letting conversation flow and the place becoming a total off topic free for all. I have seen piss poor moderation totally ruin a forum. Like cases where some threads are allowed to rage on full of off topic noise while others get shut down for the most minor things. The most irritating thing I've seen is where the moderator just has to get in the last word so they will post a reply that is criticizing someone and then lock the thread so that person can't defend themselves. Here people are generally allowed to chat IF they remain respectful, and stay off of a few certain really hot button topics that inevitably get people riled up.

I put it down to the people, more than anything else. There are some interesting points, as well as things I either disagree with or regard to be complete misinformation in this thread, but I see no point in responding to it, because it will just stir the pot more. I suspect there are others who feel the same and are also exercising self-control.

[Nominal Animal]

Life has consequences.  Everything you do has consequences.

I hope you remember that when the balance swings the other way, and you yourself get canceled for holding the attitudes you hold today with pride.
At least today, you just lose your job prospects and social contact with acquintances, and are not burned on a pyre.

Do note that I myself am condemning the action, and even more so those who accept it, like yourself.  I understand your viewpoint, but I believe you do not see how damaging it is to society, and how horrible the actions considered much later on.  It saddens me immensely that you and those agreeing with you do not see the immense damage and danger your attitude causes.

(Edited to add: , because I like your (plural!) output and value your contributions and insight.  If my opinion of you was low, I wouldn't care.)

Silencing a few nutjobs just isn't worth the secondary effects it has on speech, specifically self-censoring and having lying become an accepted practice to avoid social pushback.  I've already tried to show how that will always –– has always in historical record –– lead to social unrest and even atrocities, even though they are almost always committed by people with as pure and positive intent as yourself.

I cannot condemn someone for making a mistake for the first time, but I can for sure condemn someone repeating a mistake, ignoring all historical precedents.

(Edited to add: But I cannot really condemn someone who does not see, either; only if they refused to learn from history.  It takes time and effort to learn, too.)

And if you truly believe that social 'fear' factors are evil, I hope you are protesting against every organized religion known to man.

Protesting is not the right word, but describing their failures –– and I do mean the failures of every organized religion known to man, without exception ––, yes.

I do not agree with any organized religion, nor do I belong to any.  I am not strictly speaking an atheist, because I do not make any claims about divinity or godhood (except for my own relationship, which is best described as agnostic), and I see the mental value of personal belief systems: for some humans, they are necessary to help them overcome and thrive.  Simply put, I do not condemn personal beliefs at all, but I do condemn all religious organizations (collecting or spending resources).

Like I wrote above, social pressure is natural and healthy when it involves the interactions between the participants.  Whenever it tries to govern third-party interactions that do not affect others –– like whether someone reads Scott Adams' comics regardless of his speech elsewhere ––, it crosses the line into evil.  The intent does not matter, because it is the long-term consequences that always yield more negative outcomes than they do positive; and we know this from history, so we have no excuse either.

All of this is well modeled by game theory, down to statistical expectations of outcomes, but only if we assume rational participants.  Whenever people move from logic and rational thinking to belief and instinctual gut reactions –– truthiness ––, the results vary from bad to worse: never good, always lots of suffering.

Emotive people are much easier to manipulate and control than logical or rational ones, so those who want power over others, also want people feeling strongly and not thinking clearly.  (This is not a conspiracy theory either, it is just a clear, well-known fact about human behaviour.  Bread and circuses.)

[EEVblog]

No disrespect, but if we could take everyone at their word we wouldn't need much of a court system and politicians would be unemployed.  Actions speak louder than words.  And if you look through his history, this is hardly the first time he has skirted with controversy on these issues.  So he knew what the outcome was going to be, and did it anyway.

We only know Adams through what he says and does - nobody other than himself, his family and possibly close friends really know Adams.

How many hours of his talks have you watched?
I'm willing to bet I beat you by 100-1 or even 1000-1
So forgive me if I just ignore your comments.