Radio 4 Long Wave Switch Off

[madires]

... also called CDNs. From my experience, multicast is more of a niche application than mainstream. The protocols involved to make multicast work aren't simple and can cause a headache when crossing networks (AS). Things improved over the years, but many networks are still afraid of multicast.

[Ranayna]

Yeah, multicast is a single provider thing.
As far as i know, the german Telekom uses multicast for their IPTV service. They offer linear TV over IP, and that is provided via multicast.

[tom66]

But individual streams, like Netflix or any other video on demand stream, can't conceivably be multicast. Large providers will have dedicated cache servers though, so that the data for popular shows won't have to travel many times around the world.

Netflix has a policy where they will provide caching servers for free to any decently sized ISP; it's a win-win for both parties: better customer experience (so more subscribers), and ISPs aren't going to have to spend as much on their backhaul.

https://openconnect.netflix.com/Open-Connect-Briefing-Paper.pdf

I suspect other streaming services have similar policies.

[paul cotter]

The LW transmitter is still on today although not good for listening as there was very frequent lightning interference.

[radiolistener]

Yes, it's still on the air, although it does seem a bit noisier than it used to be. Maybe they reduced the transmitter power slightly, or perhaps the transmitted signal has become a little noisier.

That said, on LW most of the interference nowadays actually comes from your local household electronics and the power grid, especially cheap switch-mode power supplies with little or no EMI filtering. Moving the antenna outside the house and adding common-mode chokes to the feedline usually makes a huge difference.

[Zero999]

The LW transmitter is still on today although not good for listening as there was very frequent lightning interference.

That doesn't help, but I thought that would only affect local reception.

Yes, it's still on the air, although it does seem a bit noisier than it used to be. Maybe they reduced the transmitter power slightly, or perhaps the transmitted signal has become a little noisier.

That said, on LW most of the interference nowadays actually comes from your local household electronics and the power grid, especially cheap switch-mode power supplies with little or no EMI filtering. Moving the antenna outside the house and adding common-mode chokes to the feedline usually makes a huge difference.

Could it be weather related? There has a been a heatwave over Western Europe over the last week. Perhaps the high humidity and the effects of the high pressure system on the ionosphere is affecting radio propagation?

[steve30]

They switched it off this morning as planned. Well, they stopped broadcasting Radio 4 on it. The transmitter itself is still on playing a retune message.

Unfortunately my LW radio conked out in the 1990s so I had to listen to it through someone else's WebSDR.

They cut the sixth pip short.

Here's a recording for those who missed it: https://odysee.com/steve30:3/radio4_longwave_closedown:a

The world hasn't imploded... yet.

[Xena E]

I was at a friend's house, he being an avid radiophile, we listened to the closedown on a 1939 EverReady 5216 radio that was built shortly before the previous long term closedown of the station at the beginning of WW2...

[paul cotter]

Yep, gone. I was not a great listener but I will miss it. Living close to the east coast of Ireland the signal strength was always superb.

Xena, did that radio by any chance use a "42" pentode for the final audio?

[Xena E]

Xena, did that radio by any chance use a "42" pentode for the final audio?

It is an early "All Dry" battery set. I asked your question about the audio output valve, it was a DL2 pentode similar to the 1C5G but with a ct8 base.

[radiolistener]

Yes, it's sad to see it go. I was still hoping they would somehow keep the service alive, even in a reduced form.

The carrier is still there for now, but it's just looping the retune message. I've attached a recording of that message, along with a baseband IQ recording of the carrier, just for the historical record.

[paul cotter]

Those valves(tubes) designed for battery use are devices that I have heard of but never seen.

[SteveThackery]

So, @radiolistener, it has happened. You've argued at extraordinary length about why it shouldn't have been switched off, but now we've got the opportunity to see what actually happens.

Despite your comprehensive argument, I predict that nothing bad of any significance will happen.

[tom66]

There was no chance of it being kept on.  LW is dead as a technology; MW is not far behind, we've moved on.

[paul cotter]

Yep, MW won't be far behind. On my car radio there is still one BBC channel(mid-band, guessing ~700-800khz) transmitting and the rest of the band is empty apart from some very weak foreign stations. I made my living for ~7-8years working with MW transmitters and I do miss this antiquated technology. Progress is inevitable and I reckon those with horse drawn carriages felt the same way with the introduction of the automobile.

[TimFox]

Back in North America, with the long distances in "fly-over" country, I still find MW AM useful in car radios.

[golden_labels]

So, @radiolistener, it has happened. You've argued at extraordinary length about why it shouldn't have been switched off, but now we've got the opportunity to see what actually happens.

Despite your comprehensive argument, I predict that nothing bad of any significance will happen.

The unfortunate consequence of maths is that once in a while such “predictions” are matched by later events, regardless of author’s reasoning being correct or not. So this kind of an argument is a double-edged sword. Guess who benefits more from that.

[radiolistener]

Despite your comprehensive argument, I predict that nothing bad of any significance will happen.

Unfortunately, considering some other things that I don't want to talk about, I think things are going to be much worse than I originally thought. That makes the idea that the shutdown of the LW transmitter is connected to this seem even more plausible. 

On the other hand, there's probably not much you could do to change the outcome anyway, so I'm not even sure it's worth bringing up. It may be better to spend the remaining time without unnecessary anxiety. But then again, being prepared does at least provide some chance of improving your odds of getting through whatever is to come.

[SteveThackery]

Unfortunately, taking into account other things that I don't want to talk......

So why mention them, then?

[radiolistener]

So why mention them, then?

Yes, that's exactly why I updated original post, I'm not even sure whether it's worth discussing.

Sometimes I wonder whether it's better to warn people about a possible future so they have a chance to prepare, or to leave them with their peace of mind if there's little they can do to change the outcome. I honestly don't know which approach is kinder. Unfortunately, I've seen that many people struggle to accept reality as it is, and for some, the psychological impact can be overwhelming.

[Zero999]

Yes, it's sad to see it go. I was still hoping they would somehow keep the service alive, even in a reduced form.

The carrier is still there for now, but it's just looping the retune message. I've attached a recording of that message, along with a baseband IQ recording of the carrier, just for the historical record.

I tuned into it this morning to confirm it's still broadcasting the retune message and it is. This is really annoying because it's wasting energy. Listeners have been given plenty of warning the long wave service was going to end and how to receive Radio 4. There is no need to keep it on, just to broadcast a retune message. If they're willing to use the energy, they should have delayed the shutdown. The BBC keep on banging on about climate change and how we should all reduce our energy consumption. They are complete hypocrites.

[radiolistener]

I tuned into it this morning to confirm it's still broadcasting the retune message and it is. This is really annoying because it's wasting energy. Listeners have been given plenty of warning the long wave service was going to end and how to receive Radio 4. There is no need to keep it on, just to broadcast a retune message. If they're willing to use the energy, they should have delayed the shutdown. The BBC keep on banging on about climate change and how we should all reduce our energy consumption. They are complete hypocrites.

As far as I know, the 198 kHz carrier also transmits a low-rate digital data signal containing things like time information and other control data, and it's used by some electricity meters and other devices.

I actually learned about that from this discussion, so I haven't tried decoding the data stream myself yet. That may be the reason they're keeping the transmitter on for now while discontinuing the Radio 4 audio service.

In this way, they are still maintaining the service for meter infrastructure, while effectively removing the "free add-on" in the form of the broadcast audio program.

[tom66]

I tuned into it this morning to confirm it's still broadcasting the retune message and it is. This is really annoying because it's wasting energy. Listeners have been given plenty of warning the long wave service was going to end and how to receive Radio 4. There is no need to keep it on, just to broadcast a retune message. If they're willing to use the energy, they should have delayed the shutdown. The BBC keep on banging on about climate change and how we should all reduce our energy consumption. They are complete hypocrites.

As far as I know, the 198 kHz carrier also transmits a low-rate digital data signal containing things like time information and other control data, and it's used by some electricity meters and other devices.

I actually learned about that from this discussion, so I haven't tried decoding the data stream myself yet. That may be the reason they're keeping the transmitter on for now while discontinuing the Radio 4 audio service.

In this way, they are still maintaining the service for meter infrastructure, while effectively removing the "free add-on" in the form of the broadcast audio program.

The 198kHz frequency was regulated by a caesium reference, which meant it could be used by some to generate a timing reference.  Nowadays GPS time sources provide good alternatives.  There's a digital data carrier there that provides time and date info used by timeswitching meters.  GPS and newer smart meters replace this information source.

[Zero999]

I tuned into it this morning to confirm it's still broadcasting the retune message and it is. This is really annoying because it's wasting energy. Listeners have been given plenty of warning the long wave service was going to end and how to receive Radio 4. There is no need to keep it on, just to broadcast a retune message. If they're willing to use the energy, they should have delayed the shutdown. The BBC keep on banging on about climate change and how we should all reduce our energy consumption. They are complete hypocrites.

As far as I know, the 198 kHz carrier also transmits a low-rate digital data signal containing things like time information and other control data, and it's used by some electricity meters and other devices.

I actually learned about that from this discussion, so I haven't tried decoding the data stream myself yet. That may be the reason they're keeping the transmitter on for now while discontinuing the Radio 4 audio service.

In this way, they are still maintaining the service for meter infrastructure, while effectively removing the "free add-on" in the form of the broadcast audio program.

The 198kHz frequency was regulated by a caesium reference, which meant it could be used by some to generate a timing reference.  Nowadays GPS time sources provide good alternatives.  There's a digital data carrier there that provides time and date info used by timeswitching meters.  GPS and newer smart meters replace this information source.

Wouldn't they still save power by completely shutting down the audio, leaving it as a pure data station? Otherwise they should have left the audio on.

[factory]

If what I read elsewhere is correct, the audio should disappear on Tuesday (30th), time unspecified of course, maybe someone in the know could confirm the exact timings? I bet it will be gone before I wake up on Tuesday morning.

As it's still transmitting I'm making good use of the signal, for my vintage (1960s) offair standard receivers, have been working on repairing one of them this weekend, since the service manual appeared on the HPAK groups.io at the end of last week.

The radio teleswitching meter service (economy 7), there is almost nothing about when this is supposed to cease, apart from the date of May/June last year, certainly no one has bothered to replace the Schlumberger meter switch at a relatives rented flat, probably best the service is discontinued in the summer rather than winter, to prevent people having no heating if it gets stuck in the off mode when the service ends. Who knows how many are still waiting to be replaced, bet the now private energy companies don't know or care.

David