Texas Instruments to Hobbyists: No soup for you!

[Tinkerer]

But, for example, I'm not allowed to accept anything extra from a sales rep from any company that isn't a 'requested' sample. eg I'm not allowed to accept a free calendar or pencil or even allow them to buy me a sandwich or provide me transport to/from a sample request meeting.

It's a serious issue if I do any of the above. Even accepting a free pencil would get me in deep trouble if the wrong person found out about it.

I used to work with a guy who previously worked for a large TV manufacturer (before everything moved to China). He said he missed all the freebies from reps which extended as far as sexual favours.

That isnt suprising based on news stories we have all heard.
Actually, gifts are quite common overseas compared to the US though. There was an article once about how US companies were losing business because they werent allowed to give or receive even token gifts while other companies outside of the US could.

[G0HZU]

I used to work with a guy who previously worked for a large TV manufacturer (before everything moved to China). He said he missed all the freebies from reps which extended as far as sexual favours.

Looks like I missed out then 

10 or more years ago it was quite common to see a growing collection of 'treats' from reps on an engineer's desk. eg calculators, tools, pens, USB sticks, mugs, torches etc etc.

It was a sneaky way to allow the rep to see as many engineers as possible in one visit. The rep might just be hand delivering some samples to one engineer but once the free treats were known about the rep could easily get access to several engineers.

There was a time when the reps from some manufacturers would glean a lot of info about our products and our timescales from such meetings with our engineers. These days we are not allowed to say very much about why we need the samples or what projects the company is working on but it doesn't stop the reps from asking these questions several times during a meeting    

[David Hess]

A. Distributors may not have stock.
B. Distributors may have whole reel MOQs
C. Distributors may have minimum order values.
D. For many companies the cost of raising an order, processing it and subsequent payment is significant.

I have gone with alternate parts and even designs because of the first three in your list.  If samples were not available for development from the manufacturer or distributors whether free or paid for in small quantifies, then the part effectively did not exist despite the sales guys constantly phoning me up to tell me of its virtues.  I remember Motorola and IRF being particularly bad about parts being on allocation and unavailable forever so I just gave up on them for anything.

At least now it is more common to be able to buy parts directly from the manufacturer in small quantities but some manufacturers are still effectively invisible if you want anything less than thousands at a time.

[G0HZU]

but some manufacturers are still effectively invisible if you want anything less than thousands at a time

I think a lot depends on potential sales volume and also if the manufacturer wants to get a foot in your company door.

Also a lot depends on the maturity of the component. If it is something relatively new (and maybe not yet visible in the public domain) then the manufacturer will usually provide pre production samples for free even if the part is relatively expensive (eg $200 each). This is because they want dev/application feedback from engineers.

However, if its something that is mature and they have been selling it worldwide in large volume for several years then it's going to be harder to get free samples unless you can promise it will be worth their while.

[David Hess]

However, if its something that is mature and they have been selling it worldwide in large volume for several years then it's going to be harder to get free samples unless you can promise it will be worth their while.

The problem I ran into here with Motorola and IRF was that paid for samples or small production quantifies were not available from them, their representative, or their distributors.  I once got a call from a Motorola representative asking how the parts we had discussed years earlier were working out and I had to tell him we never used them because we could never buy them for any price.

[Howardlong]

There is another way to deal with the situation, and that is to work for yourself.

My own Mouser/Farnell/Digikey/Microchip/Golledge/RS annual spend is well into 6 figures. If my assembler calls up and the P&P machine has thrown a tantrum and is short of a part, I buy it while they're still on the phone and have it shipped. Sometimes I have sufficient stock at hand, in which case I jump in the car and have it with them within 90 minutes. Paperwork? What paperwork? The accountants are a long way from running this asylum, thank you.

Regarding TI, many of their development boards and eval kits are so cheap now that I don't have any problem in spending $20 on something that they're clearly not making a dime on, merely covering their costs.

It is very rare I get samples, maybe once or twice per annum, and these are always for parts that just aren't available from the usual distributors, perhaps needing an NDA signed also.

[nctnico]

Silly to do free samples, I never once use that. But I do get into their special offerings where you pay for pretty much sample parts but way cheap.

I order samples every now and then if a particular part isn't carried by Farnell et al. Actually the sales reps. from Wurth get slightly agitated when I tell them I order single quantities from Farnell instead of asking for samples

[G0HZU]

There is another way to deal with the situation, and that is to work for yourself.

Nowadays, I would really like to do the same because the company is changing in ways that no longer suit me...

However, if I went solo I would expect to struggle in terms of getting free samples for my line of work (I do RF design at a large defence company). At the moment I can often pick up a phone and have a rep drive here the next day with samples in his car.

Or I could arrange a face to face meeting (or a conference call) with their application engineers about a new device and they would usually provide samples and eval PCBs for free. But that would obviously cease to happen if I worked for myself.

So I'm not sure how easy it would be to still get samples like this.  I'd be happy to pay for eval PCBs and pay for the samples but I fear I would be effectively locked out from quite a few of the top RF component manufacturers so even this option would not be available to me

[westfw]

just ordering the sample from a distributor.

"kids" today are so spoiled.  Distributors that exist and sell small quantities of most chips to anyone who has the money are a relatively new thing.

With the larger manufacturers (like TI) having online stores that sell small quantities of chips (however they decide to implement that), "free samples" are a lot less important than they used to be.

(now, even before samples, manufacturers used to mail out free databooks.  LARGE, HEAVY, databooks.  I always found the ones that would send you 10lbs of paper, but NOT samples, to be rather puzzling.)

(I've had the thought that those eBay sellers selling sample-quantities of chips could be a sort of "cottage subcontractor industry" for the semiconductor manufacturers.  Instead of managing their own sampling department, they could hire eBay resellers (at nominal salary, plus the income received from sales) to do the repackaging and shipping for them.  It does seem like it would be hard to keep accountable, though...)

[free_electron]

Free samples work wonderful to establish relationships. If ADI gives me a free PLL chip for my high frequency clock source prototype, when it is time for me to look for an ADC, guess who I will check first to buy one from , ADI or TI ?

so they know if they give you one freebie you will come begging for another freebee.
all the while knowing you will never BUY from them as you are a hobbyist that will build one or two of these units and are too cheap to spend 5$ ...

get it now ?

that is why they still give out free samples to people working for a company. company = potential design win. hobbyist = cheapskate McFreeloader ...

[Howardlong]

There is another way to deal with the situation, and that is to work for yourself.

Nowadays, I would really like to do the same because the company is changing in ways that no longer suit me...

However, if I went solo I would expect to struggle in terms of getting free samples for my line of work (I do RF design at a large defence company). At the moment I can often pick up a phone and have a rep drive here the next day with samples in his car.

Or I could arrange a face to face meeting (or a conference call) with their application engineers about a new device and they would usually provide samples and eval PCBs for free. But that would obviously cease to happen if I worked for myself.

So I'm not sure how easy it would be to still get samples like this.  I'd be happy to pay for eval PCBs and pay for the samples but I fear I would be effectively locked out from quite a few of the top RF component manufacturers so even this option would not be available to me

This is true to some extent. When I started, without any real world demonstrable product, most of the b%stards didn't even return phone calls. However you already have a relationship, and as an independent, with a track record from elsewhere, I am sure they will speak to you. These days now I'm known not to be a tyre kicker with some real spend, the stonewalling doesn't happen. My favourite distributor has turned out to be Golledge, from whom I used to buy the odd saw filter, maybe ten at a time. I now buy in the thousands, £30k pa spend. I still speak to the same guy I spoke to all those years ago, just that he calls me up for a chin wag every couple of months or so, when he knows I'm probably going need to order anyway as lead times can be two or three months for some of the parts I use.

[G0HZU]

Yes Golledge are very good. I used to deal with them a lot in the 1990s and they used to provide some decent databooks and were great with free samples and for providing their knowledge and customer support. eg they would happily send 10 or more crystals for free even if I only needed a couple. If I only needed a future total of 10-20 xtals they would just send them all as samples on day one as it was cheaper for them to do it this way. We did buy a lot of stuff from them for higher volume products so it was a pretty good relationship.

IQD were also very good for similar reasons. However, these days there is fierce competition in this area and I don't always get to choose the supplier because we are more production oriented and sell products in the tens of thousands. Our xtal, OCXO, TCXO and filter requirements get sent out to multiple suppliers for quotes and it's the beancounters at my place of work who get to choose which one we buy as long as the supplier can meet all the spec requirements.

This recent beancounter system tends to insulate the engineers from the 'best' local suppliers in terms of customer support etc. Not good

[Bud]

Free samples work wonderful to establish relationships. If ADI gives me a free PLL chip for my high frequency clock source prototype, when it is time for me to look for an ADC, guess who I will check first to buy one from , ADI or TI ?

so they know if they give you one freebie you will come begging for another freebee.
all the while knowing you will never BUY from them as you are a hobbyist that will build one or two of these units and are too cheap to spend 5$ ...

I do not think you read carefully what I wrote , my friend. Free samples help reduce cost of a prototype but they do not eliminate the cost, since in practically 100% cases my designs have multiple ICs/parts. So I do buy the rest of the parts, and I typically buy them from the manufacturer who was kind to give me samples.

And you never know if a hobbyist design may one day all of a sudden hit a million dollar on Kickstarter.

Also I do not think that a company would count beans once they established a free samples program. If this is a program, it will be properly financed and the money given to it in the budget have to be be spent.

[LabSpokane]

TI treats hobbyists very well. I can buy hobby boards for peanuts direct from them shipped free via fedex. So far I've been able to get every TI part I want from Mouser in small quantities.

I don't see why a hobbyist should get a free ride from any manufacturer. All I ask is that I can buy the parts in small quantities for a reasonable price.

[miguelvp]

I agree, we got the Chronos watch and the reflective display for the launchpad, and the launchpad, etc...

I do agree on their policy that the samples should be constrained to Universities and Companies that actually make huge orders if needed.

[Rufus]

A while ago I approached http://www.pickeringrelay.com/index.html because I needed a couple of high voltage mercury wetted reed relays for a one off test box.

The guy said he would just send me a couple, he even tested some for high breakdown voltage and sent a couple of good ones because I was running close to the limit.  That bought a lot of good will and this bit of free advertising

[free_electron]

Free samples work wonderful to establish relationships. If ADI gives me a free PLL chip for my high frequency clock source prototype, when it is time for me to look for an ADC, guess who I will check first to buy one from , ADI or TI ?

so they know if they give you one freebie you will come begging for another freebee.
all the while knowing you will never BUY from them as you are a hobbyist that will build one or two of these units and are too cheap to spend 5$ ...

I do not think you read carefully what I wrote , my friend. Free samples help reduce cost of a prototype but they do not eliminate the cost, since in practically 100% cases my designs have multiple ICs/parts. So I do buy the rest of the parts, and I typically buy them from the manufacturer who was kind to give me samples.

And you never know if a hobbyist design may one day all of a sudden hit a million dollar on Kickstarter.

Also I do not think that a company would count beans once they established a free samples program. If this is a program, it will be properly financed and the money given to it in the budget have to be be spent.

oops. my bad. i thought you wrote from perspective of a hobbyist.
 for company business sampling is perfectly fine. hence ti no longer responding to gmail addresses. if you are hobbyist they sell very cheap stuff to play with.

actually all this on-line sampling stuff is really only dealt with fro small to medium soize customers. if i need samples professionally i simply call the manufacturer and within the hour stuff is on its way , including a visit by their own sales people , presentations , the whole shebang. oh, i need a reel or mini-reel of those since i will be building 100 proto's on a pick and place to do some burn-in testing. no problemo.

of course it helps if you work for a company that vendors are fighting over to be able to sell to... 

[matkar]

For the past four years I work as a contractor. I mostly develop circuit boards and make a few prototypes for companies. I have a gmail account and this new policy of theirs doesn't affect me a lot since I usually buy components I need. I don't bother with samples since it's easier to order stuff I need for a project in one place (Farnell mostly). I believe I have ordered free samples for TI only twice in this period.
Just after the 2008 crisis when Microchip ceased sending samples I was visited by an Austrian rep who told me Microchip spent 280kUSD per year (or maybe per month, I don't remember) on sample postage only. TI must suffer an even higher loss since they send through courier.

[mtdoc]

The reason I think TI's recent policy change is folly is this:

1. The people who abuse sampling will continue to do so since it is easy and cheap to set up your own email domain.

2.  While it is true that many "hobbyists" will never develop a commercial project, it is also true that many hobbyists eventually go on to work as engineers developing commercial projects.   High schoolers, those out of school but yet to land a real job, those between jobs and those who have a real engineering job but work on hobby projects at home or who like matkar's example, work as contractors and don't use a corporate email account.

3.  The philosophy of providing free samples to students is a good one since one you get someone used to ordering your parts they are more likely to look to your components first for future projects.  But as per #2 above and as discussed many times on this forum - there are many engineers who come to the field from non-traditional paths.

4.  It's not about spending a few dollars on components for a project. Everyone likes to get something "free" even if it is only a $2 part. It gives you the  "warm fuzzies" about the company - and promotes brand loyalty.

5. In the end what this policy will do is take away the "warm fuzzies' that  hobbyists/makers, and commercial design engineers in waiting feel towards TI.   Those abusing the free sample system for commercial gain will continue to do so by just getting a new, accepted email address.


In the short term this might save TI a few tens or even a few hundred thousand dollars which is literally peanuts for a company with 12.5 billion dollars in annual revenue.

In the long term I think it will only hurt them...

[Rufus]

The reason I think TI's recent policy change is folly is this:

1. The people who abuse sampling will continue to do so since it is easy and cheap to set up your own email domain.

Presumably they have some per account limits - perhaps they noticed too many accounts with different email addresses and the same delivery address.

[Smokey]

........
of course it helps if you work for a company that vendors are fighting over to be able to sell to... 

Even the small company I work for, I'm constantly offered free samples of stuff.  I don't even have to ask most of the time time.  A vendor comes calling showing off their new stuff and just about anything I show interest in they offer some samples for.

The real winners are the free samples of dev boards since most of the time I won't want to spin a board with an unknown chip just to see if it's something I want to use.  I'll usually turn down the single chips, but I'll take the dev boards.

and like 15 years ago... geeze, makes me feel old saying that.... I used to abuse the hell out of free samples.  They are mostly still sitting in a box in my lab.  I hardly used any of them.  If I was TI, I'd be doing exactly what they are doing.

[westfw]

I suspect that students or hobbyists that manage to contact an appropriate person at TI would still be able to get samples, given a reasonable sounding story.  It's the effort to save money by automating the process that ends up being particularly prone to abuse, and expensive.

[GEuser]

To remove the Soup is downright mean stingy and nasty , now i'll have to go and buy it but this time i'll make sure the pea & ham or tomarto  or any of the other favourites I like are Not made in the UsA .

French Fries !

[T3sl4co1l]

To remove the Soup is downright mean stingy and nasty , now i'll have to go and buy it but this time i'll make sure the pea & ham or tomarto  or any of the other favourites I like are Not made in the UsA .

French Fries !

Pomme frites!

Or if you're an infidel, Freedom Fries

Tim

[GEuser]

To remove the Soup is downright mean stingy and nasty , now i'll have to go and buy it but this time i'll make sure the pea & ham or tomarto  or any of the other favourites I like are Not made in the UsA .

French Fries !

Pomme frites!

Or if you're an infidel, Freedom Fries

Tim

Ay that was it I had forgotten Freedom Fries , originally from Belgium .

NZ make some nice soups and for a good price but it's a catch 22 , they are Kiwi's