Checkout FREE supermarkets

[MrMobodies]

I wonder why they call them "checkout free". It's not checkout free when the buyer still has to use their phone via some "app" as a checkout before they can leave with the goods.

Oops forgot the url:
https://retailtechinnovationhub.com/home/2022/10/14/tesco-under-fire-for-trigo-powered-london-checkout-free-store

Tesco under fire for Trigo powered London checkout free store
Last year, Tesco launched its first high street checkout free store.
Named GetGo and powered by Trigo tech, this can be found in High Holborn, on the edge of the City of London.

Kevin Tindall, Managing Director at Tesco Convenience : , said at the time of the launch: "We are constantly looking for ways to improve  the shopping experience and our latest innovation offers a seamless checkout for customers on the go, helping them to save a bit more time.”

"This is currently just a one store trial, but we're looking forward  * to seeing how our customers respond."

** Not everyone’s a fan  , unfortunately.

Jonathan Rowson, an author, publisher and Director at Perspectiva, this week took to Twitter to vent spleen. “Distressing experience at Tesco just now,” he said.

“10.50pm near Chancery Lane tube after a work event I receive a text to get a sandwich for my son’s packed lunch tomorrow. I see a store, think I’m in luck, but I can only *enter* the store if I download the app & sign up to club card.” He added: “Pragmatism had me download the app, but I said no to the club card. I can’t proceed to buy the sandwich and get home. There’s a barrier. I ask for help. The staff member takes my phone and changes my option to “accept club card” I say no thanks. He says then you can’t get in.”

Rowson told the employee that he wanted to buy a sandwich and nowhere else was open. The employee apologised and stated this it was now store policy and ***what customers wanted. : bullshit :  “Soon, all stores will be like this,” he commented. “People protest, but then they come back a few days later.” Rowson replied: “****Sorry but the price is too high. And people only come back because they don’t feel they have a choice. If there was a shop open next door I’d go there.”  He then deleted the app and vowed not to shop at Tesco again. He continued: “Never have I felt the pinch of surveillance society more acutely.”

“My shock at the compulsory data cost for entry to a supermarket to buy a sandwich made me think of Brett Scott (the author of Cloud Money, a book covering cash, cards, crypto and the war for our wallets) and his argument for cash. Use it to lose it, they say. And tonight I really feel it.” “I think I have what I need at home to make my son a tasty sandwich. But what I felt at that store tonight was thoroughly dystopian. It was a taste of the future in the present, and I didn’t like it at all.”

Rowson concluded: “Gosh, and now I see an email with my club card number has come through. When the store assistant changed my decision not to accept a club card on my phone I didn’t manage to stop him in time. Tesco, can you please cancel this card and let me know it’s been cancelled? Thank you.”

At the time of writing, Rowson’s series of tweets had been retweeted, quote tweeted and liked thousands of times.
Tesco did not respond to our request for comment.

I think it should be called "App only shopping" or in this case "Tesco Clubcard only shop" where you are using your mobile phone via "app" as a checkout.

*If that happened to me with no or poor signage, I tell them this, "here is what is going to happen, I am going to walk out that door and YOU! are going to put back everything in my basket/trolley back on the shelves for wasting my time as that's all your are good for." I have cash and card and willing to pay so don't be stupid.

**Should everybody be a "fan" to look forward to only being able to pay with only mode of payment at these stores. Nothing to do with being a "fan" it is about accepting other modes of payment where payment has failed and is not taken in consideration.

*** With the protests I had been reading last year about the boycotting of self service checkouts in Tesco's and had the cheek to say "that's what customers want". Sounds out of touch to me.

**** How can they compare that to limiting modes of payment, because the prices are high that makes it okay to restrict modes of payment to this pathetic method that requires a phone and a whole lot of things.

They opened a store, restricted to one method of payment and called it a fancy name.
So how can it be called "Tesco convenient" when they accept only one mode of payment.
* Do they think the public are stupid? when they leave out the bit on the phone and "app" or rename it "Checkout free" where you checkout the items.

I have no interest in club or loyalty cards which I sometimes get asked at stores.

Kevin Tindall, Managing Director at Tesco Convenience : , said at the time of the launch: "We are constantly looking for ways to improve  the shopping experience and our latest innovation "  offers a seamless checkout for customers on the go, helping them to save a bit more time.”

Latest Innovation = Limit payment to only one payment method whereas before you had many choices of payment even on many the self service checkouts without the dependency of a phone, signal and internet and app. to work.

Saving a bit of time? Utter bullshit!
Expecting customers to have and use a phone, app, sim contract, working internet, create an account, download an app, sign in to that, insert bank account details and dependent on a whole load of things that can change with when it maybe no longer supported just to pay for something inside a shop.

Self service checkout: scan item in, place on basket and pay by cash or swipe card finished.

Don't you think that is stupid to call it "checkout free" when you are still using your phone as a checkout and calling it convenient as the only way to pay?

How can it hurt their business by also accepting card payments?

It reminds me of the "In app" parking using your phone as a parking machine via some stupid "app" of theirs.

What do you think?

[themadhippy]

I tell them this, "here is what is going to happen, I am going to walk out that door and YOU! are going to put back everything in my basket/trolley back on the shelves for wasting my time"

you saw me in the m+s( i think) store on new street station a year or 2 back as that's exactly what i did when i discovered the store was totally self service

[ataradov]

I personally prefer self checkout and use it any time possible and favor stores where it is available.

I'm not going to  mess with the phone though, I don't even carry the phone most of the time. But if is just a machine that lets me scan thing, place then into bags and pay by card, I'm using it. In most cases I'm way faster than a cahier and I can scan stuff in an order that makes sense for bagging.

I know some countries/stores would harass people and ask for a check after self check out. This does not happen here, and if it starts, I'll have to switch places I shop. You either trust me to do may scanning or don't present an option.

[SiliconWizard]

Beyond the specific case of checkout in stores, having to use one's phone for buying pretty much anything is going to become the new norm.

[TimFox]

At my local supermarket (USA), I will use self-scan checkout for small orders.
The store allows payment by card or cash, although sometimes the machines are out of cash and a human being has to help me.
I would advocate for a Federal statute that bans mandatory payment through a smartphone or similar, but allows it for those who prefer it.
As a holdover from the pandemic, many places here will not accept cash (filthy lucre), which I do not like, but have to deal with.

[shapirus]

many places here will not accept cash

is it legal at all?

[TimFox]

many places here will not accept cash

is it legal at all?

Unfortunately, yes.
The phrase "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private" is not taken literally anymore.
Unfortunately, the proposed legislation Illinois HB5255 has not made it through the State legislature.

[sleemanj]

many places here will not accept cash

is it legal at all?

Will depend on your country, but here in NZ cash is mandatory to be accepted only for repayment of smaller debts where it is reasonable to do so.  There is nothing to prevent businesses saying "we don't accept cash" provided you have not incurred a debt (which you haven't unless you've already taken the products away).  If cash was mandatorily accepted for everything then unmanned fuel stations would be a problem!

[Monkeh]

many places here will not accept cash

is it legal at all?

Unfortunately, yes.
The phrase "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private" is not taken literally anymore.
Unfortunately, the proposed legislation Illinois HB5255 has not made it through the State legislature.

Purchasing items from a shop is not a debt. Until such time as they agree to accept payment you owe nothing.

[HwAoRrDk]

I think supermarkets are pushing too far with all this technology. And I think a large proportion of their customers just don't want it.

My local Morrisons store has an equal amount of space given to the scan-as-you-shop checkouts as to the regular self-checkouts. I've noticed that it doesn't seem to matter what time of day or day of the week I'm there, I never see many people using the former. Usually just 1 or 2 people. And at the same time there will be a queue for the regular self-checkout.

I also remember a few years ago when Sainsburys first introduced their scan-as-you-shop, with the handheld scanners you would take and carry round the store. The store near my office were trying to promote it, and had a couple of staff standing in the entrance atrium trying to encourage customers to use it. Everyone was ignoring them, and I even saw a few people dismiss the offer after having it explained to them.

I'm very against all this cashless business. Sure, it's more convenient for those that are able to take advantage. But if you're not able to, then it's just outright disenfranchisement.

Take OP's example, and think of the dependency chain requirements for mobile-only cashless purchasing versus cash:

Cash:
- money in your pocket
-- pockets or other place to hold money

Cashless:
- a smartphone
-- must be charged
-- must be compatible
-- must be functional (i.e. not broken)
-- ability to afford a smartphone at all
- mobile Internet service
-- must have signal
-- must have adequate data allowance
-- ability to afford service
-- a means of paying for service
--- requires a bank account
---- requires a fixed abode
---- requires being a class of person a bank will provide service to
--- can sometimes require good credit history
- willingness to tolerate whatever privacy implications are put upon you

So, basically one dependency versus a list as long as your arm. All to buy a sandwich.

[james_s]

I personally prefer self checkout and use it any time possible and favor stores where it is available.

I'm not going to  mess with the phone though, I don't even carry the phone most of the time. But if is just a machine that lets me scan thing, place then into bags and pay by card, I'm using it. In most cases I'm way faster than a cahier and I can scan stuff in an order that makes sense for bagging.

I know some countries/stores would harass people and ask for a check after self check out. This does not happen here, and if it starts, I'll have to switch places I shop. You either trust me to do may scanning or don't present an option.

Yeah me too, self checkout is great, I love it, I've never cared for making smalltalk with clerks or standing around in line while some other customer blabs with the clerk making the whole transaction take longer than it needs to.

I don't like app based stuff though. I have a smartphone and it's a useful tool, but I don't want to be totally reliant on it. It's not uncommon for the battery to go low at a time when I need it, and some apps can drain the battery flat in a shockingly short amount of time.

[vk6zgo]

I personally prefer self checkout and use it any time possible and favor stores where it is available.

I'm not going to  mess with the phone though, I don't even carry the phone most of the time. But if is just a machine that lets me scan thing, place then into bags and pay by card, I'm using it. In most cases I'm way faster than a cahier and I can scan stuff in an order that makes sense for bagging.

I know some countries/stores would harass people and ask for a check after self check out. This does not happen here, and if it starts, I'll have to switch places I shop. You either trust me to do may scanning or don't present an option.

Yeah me too, self checkout is great, I love it, I've never cared for making smalltalk with clerks or standing around in line while some other customer blabs with the clerk making the whole transaction take longer than it needs to.

I don't like app based stuff though. I have a smartphone and it's a useful tool, but I don't want to be totally reliant on it. It's not uncommon for the battery to go low at a time when I need it, and some apps can drain the battery flat in a shockingly short amount of time.

I find self checkout is good for one or two largish items, but as soon as you get into multiple odd shaped things like loose fruit, it is easier to go through a staffed checkout.

Bunnings (a large hardware chain) installed some self checkout points, & they work OK if you are buying several large, prepackaged items, but if it is something like several bolts, a couple of screwdrivers, or some loose twist drills, it becomes tedious.

Strangely, they are more often than not closed off with a chain, & you have to use the staffed checkout.
At least the Bunnings ones don't get all shirty if I put a shopping bag on the wrong side of the device, or not use one at all & just place the scanned items back in the trolley, unlike the ones at some other shops.

You can checkout using your phone here, but it is just an extra option, & you show the scanner a "virtual card" on the phone.
I'm not sure how this works, as with an ordinary contactless card, it doesn't rely upon optical recognition.
Maybe the "virtual" card transmits the data using Bluetooth or something.

It is a dumb idea, though, as what happens if somebody rings you just as you start to go through the checkout?

I guess you will have to stand aside, answer, then go back to your App, whereas, with a card, you can answer, say "Please wait a second", checkout, & leave the store carrying on with your phone conversation.

In Oz, if you do have an "App" tied up with a particular shop, in many cases you can buy what you want online, then just pick it up.
Obviously, you can do the same without the App, just by going to their website.

[abeyer]

I wonder why they call them "checkout free". It's not checkout free when the buyer still has to use their phone via some "app" as a checkout before they can leave with the goods.

I think the confusion (which seems to be shared by the rest of the discussion) is that there is some checkout involved on the phone when there isn't.

This looks like either a license or clone of the same thing Amazon did in their stores... there is no "checkout" because the whole store is blanketed in cameras that just watch what you do and invoice it all and send you the bill to your existing account after you leave. The app is purely used to identify you so they know who to bill and has nothing to do with the actual checkout or payment. Some of the amazon ones have biometric scanners now too, so you don't even need the phone, you scan your palm or iris and it knows who you are and just bills it all to your amazon account.

[MrMobodies]

the whole store is blanketed in cameras that just watch what you do and invoice it all and send you the bill to your existing account after you leave. The app is purely used to identify you so they know who to bill and has nothing to do with the actual checkout or payment.

No thanks.
The effort to go to to identify someone over a sandwich.

I think I just want to look around in peace, take stuff, pay and a receipt not be watched constantly what I pick up and see it on my phone. I find that intrusive.

Joke: Soon they will start charging folks through their phones through "apps" or fines for walking on private land/footpaths possibly brought from the councils at some point by private management firms "maintaining the land" for the purposes of what they do like with the parking and the ANPR cameras.

I should be able to go in a shop, get the things I want and pay for it either by cash or card and whatever other means. Not be expected to mess about with a phone, it dependencies and be spied on at every angle just to determine what I pick up.

I remembered at the last Sainsbury's store local to me before I moved some year ago they had these camera's facing the self checkout tills. Not at the top watching what I do but my face. SonNow when I see them and hidden in the casing of the screen I put my hood down.

[Ed.Kloonk]

No thanks.
The effort to go to to identify someone over a sandwich.

{Ding!}
"How was your sandwich experience today?"

[bdunham7]

From a local website, names removed and minor edits.

We recently went shopping at Amazon Fresh, located off Foothill and White.  We had never used the cashier free checkout point, wherein you simply swipe your card and you’re out.  We bought a single bag of groceries (mostly fruits and cheese).  My partner did not like the whole process.  She wanted a receipt.  I informed her that we would receive the receipt in an email.  My partner remained on edge about the whole thing, but I reassured her, “No worries.”

Then the receipt arrived via email and I noted that we were being charged over $600.00 for a single bag of groceries.  HOLY GUACAMOLE!  I checked the itemized list only to discover that we were charged over $300.00 for alcohol, $100.00 in baby formula and an additional $100.00 for stuff we wouldn’t even consider putting into our mouths, let alone swallowing. And I was like, WTH (only it sounded a lot worse than that).

A long story well-shortened:  If you use your Amazon Prime card to gain access to the store and someone pushes in behind you (without inserting their own card and before the gate closes behind you and the device resets), you have become monetarily responsible for a “guest”.  The same holds trued, if you go to check out by inserting your card and someone pushes their cart through the opened gates before the gates close and the technology device resets. 

I am not absolutely certain, because I remained relatively stupefied by how this whole check out process worked, but there was a man and a woman pushing their filled cart right behind us as we were exiting the store. The  woman even gave us the “stink eye” because my partner stopped in front of the cashier to let me know (again), “This does not feel right”, thus preventing them from a quick exit from the store. I received a similar look from the two of them (parked a short distance away) when they were loading their loot in their vehicle.  And I thought, “WTH! And why are they looking at me like that?” Once again, I admit to my complete and utter ignorance with regards to Amazon Fresh’s checkout process, and I am NOT claiming these two people were guilty of taking full advantage of my being technologically challenged and running up a bill on my account. . . But then, why did she give me the stink eye (twice) within such a short increment of time, because I delayed their exit and then dared to take a glimpse of what they were loading into their vehicle?  (Maybe her second look was not a stink eye, but her letting me know, “You are so stupid that it hurts.” (She may be right.)

Bottomline:  If you should decide to use your Amazon Prime card to enter and/or exit the Amazon Fresh store (which is really an amazing well-stocked store) make sure that no one pushes through the gates until they have closed and reset.  This applies to you going in or coming out.  Whomever it was that pushed through behind us (whether this couple or not) they knew exactly what they were doing. My heavens! They stocked their cart chalk full of expensive alcohol ($80.00 a bottle Champagne, Scotch and Tequila) that, although we could afford (if we actually drank those substances), would never (EVER) consider buying.

In Final note: Amazon Fresh reimbursed us for the thievery of this shopping spree that ended up on our account.  Amazon is good in that way.  But DO BE CAREFUL when entering or existing the store, as thieves appear to know how to thieve.

[MrMobodies]

From a local website, names removed and minor edits.

We recently went shopping at Amazon Fresh, located off Foothill and White.  We had never used the cashier free checkout point, wherein you simply swipe your card and you’re out  .

That's got to be a lot better than wholey depending on a phone/app and a whole load of things to work.

If you use your Amazon Prime card to gain access to the store and someone pushes in behind you (without inserting their own card and before the gate closes behind you and the device resets), you have become monetarily responsible for a “guest”.

So someone took advantage of the shorted sighted glitch in that it does not take in account those that may push past.

Maybe they could put a second barrier, so one in front and one behind with ample space to accommodate a partner and any baggage, and then press a button to allow them in so it scans them to prevent others gatecrashing onto their ID.

[abeyer]

No thanks.
The effort to go to to identify someone over a sandwich.

Sure, fair enough if you don't want to use it, but you can hardly blame them for wanting to know who you are if the whole point of the system is to send you your bill after you've already left. They can't very well ask you who you are then.

I think I just want to look around in peace, take stuff, pay

That's great when it's an option. If you're in a downtown lunch rush on your break and the alternative is fighting through crowds to find what you want, standing in line while people fumble around trying to pay and chit-chat or argue with the cashiers, finally getting your food, and then realizing half your break is over already and you haven't even eaten...

I should be able to go in a shop, get the things I want and pay for it either by cash or card and whatever other means. Not be expected to mess about with a phone, it dependencies and be spied on at every angle just to determine what I pick up.

Then don't go to a shop where the whole reason for being is to not work that way? It's not like these places are common... I don't think they're even cost effective yet, given that they still have people in the loop, so certainly not in danger of becoming more so yet. And it isn't even possible to accidentally wander in as you need to provide your identity before you enter.

SonNow when I see them and hidden in the casing of the screen I put my hood down.

I hear they make these rolls of really thin aluminum... you can line your hood with it and it keeps Them from seeing you. 

[Rick Law]

With the constant minimum wage increase, business has to find ways to deal with the increase -- cut labor.  The unfortunate side effect is the lost of job experiences for high school and college new graduates.  if the employee's productivity per hour is only worth the value of a hamburger, when wage of such employee is push to $100 per hour, the price of a hamburger will be risen to that exact $100 within a short time.  So all these artificial manipulation of minimum wage is really damaging to the economy.

Personally, I would prefer to deal with a human being over dealing with "AI" automated machines.  Besides, using cash is a great way to cut over-spending.  Counting the green paper makes one more aware of the value of money.

[coppice]

My local Morrisons store has an equal amount of space given to the scan-as-you-shop checkouts as to the regular self-checkouts. I've noticed that it doesn't seem to matter what time of day or day of the week I'm there, I never see many people using the former. Usually just 1 or 2 people. And at the same time there will be a queue for the regular self-checkout.

At our local Tesco stores almost nobody uses the operator checkouts. Quite a lot use the self checkouts, and quite a lot use the scan as you shop checkouts. You rarely see a queue at the scan as you shop checkouts, as most people pass through there so quickly. Its only when you have a problem item, or they do one of their random checks that you hang around. Are you sure you are not just seeing that differential in speed?

[HobGoblyn]

My local Morrisons store has an equal amount of space given to the scan-as-you-shop checkouts as to the regular self-checkouts. I've noticed that it doesn't seem to matter what time of day or day of the week I'm there, I never see many people using the former. Usually just 1 or 2 people. And at the same time there will be a queue for the regular self-checkout.

Probably depends on where you shop, our local Morrisons has doubled the size of the self checkout area putting in larger machines so that a large trolley can easily cope.

In the day dime there’s always a small queue at the checkouts, but there’s also a small queue for self checkouts.

Go in at say 6pm, often find 2 or 3 checkouts with no customers and the checkout staff looking bored, yet at the same time at least half the self checkouts are still being used.

I prefer the self checkouts, things get scanned in the order I want and in the way I want, for example when I put a sliced loaf in my trolley, I hunt around until I find one that isn’t squashed in the middle and when I scan it, I pick it up from the end. Most of the time the checkout staff grab it in the middle squashing it.

[Bud]

How do your seniors (70+) cope up with that innovation?

[MrMobodies]

Then don't go to a shop where the whole reason for being is to not work that way? It's not like these places are common... I don't think they're even cost effective yet, given that they still have people in the loop, so certainly not in danger of becoming more so yet. And it isn't even possible to accidentally wander in as you need to provide your identity before you enter.

Rowson told the employee that he wanted to buy a sandwich and nowhere else was open. The employee apologised and stated this it was now store policy and what customers wanted. “Soon, all stores will be like this,” he commented.

Well that employee seemed pretty adamant/optimistically certain for it to happen.

I hope it doesn't come to that where make it so a phone is the only way to pay in every shop and such stores are labelled up clearly... "App only" and "no cash/card" etc.

[Halcyon]

I'm very against all this cashless business. Sure, it's more convenient for those that are able to take advantage. But if you're not able to, then it's just outright disenfranchisement.

Take OP's example, and think of the dependency chain requirements for mobile-only cashless purchasing versus cash:

Cash:
- money in your pocket
-- pockets or other place to hold money

Cashless:
- a smartphone
-- must be charged
-- must be compatible
-- must be functional (i.e. not broken)
-- ability to afford a smartphone at all
- mobile Internet service
-- must have signal
-- must have adequate data allowance
-- ability to afford service
-- a means of paying for service
--- requires a bank account
---- requires a fixed abode
---- requires being a class of person a bank will provide service to
--- can sometimes require good credit history
- willingness to tolerate whatever privacy implications are put upon you

So, basically one dependency versus a list as long as your arm. All to buy a sandwich.

That's a really interesting perspective. I've mentioned it before on other threads, but Australia is largely cashless and it just works. It has for quite a while now.

Some quick stats from the Reserve Bank of Australia:

• In June 2022, 94% of retail stores accepted cash as a payment method (down from 99% in February 2020)
• In 2021/2022 financial year, most payments were electronic, of which 75% of the electronic payments were made by credit/debit card.
• In 2019, the use of cash for all consumer payments amounted to 27%. These days, it's likely to be far less (but I can't find reliable stats).
• The use of cheques is almost zero

Personally, even in the area I live in (which is rural/regional), I'm seeing increasing numbers of small "mum and dad" retailers refusing cash payments. It's just not worth the hassle. Speaking to my local coffee shop, they've said that it actually costs them more in time and effort to bank cash, than it is to just refuse it entirely. Before this, over 90% of their payments were by card/phone anyway, even for small amounts such as a single coffee. The money is in their account and available the same day (if not, the following business day). There is also no risk of being robbed for spare change.

In fact, some bank branches have stopped handling cash entirely.

I can't even remember the last time I even carried cash in my wallet, it was probably going on 15-20 years now and in the last 2 years, I've stopped carrying a wallet entirely, since it really serves no purpose for me.

In Australia, anyone can have a bank account, even the homeless person on the street (and they usually have a smartphone too). Even my 92+ year old neighbour next door uses card for almost everything. Credit history only becomes an issue if you're seeking credit not for simply having a savings account (which costs nothing to hold).

[coppice]

How do your seniors (70+) cope up with that innovation?

Get with the times. Most of the people who developed the technology these checkouts use are now over 70.