Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026

[SteveThackery]

Those timelines are interesting!

WHOOSH! WHOOSH! WHOOSH!

Even those from the big players like Toyota.

[kiko_kikkou]

Guess what time it is? It is our long-awaited (by me and myself) part four Doughnut accumulator release:



To contribute more to the topic, here are few battery emojis, i hope you like them. 🔋🔋🔋 🐷🐖🐽

https://idonutbelieve.com/

[ejeffrey]

So far, all the tests (VTT 1, 2 and now 3) have been extremely minimalistic and even rudimentary "hobbyist level" small experiments.

It's not even that.  The tests are just not covering the most significant claims.  A hobbyist could easily do much better tests. As you say, the results might be more questionable accuracy but at least they would test the claims.

If VTT were given free rein and the budget to really study these batteries, their behavior, their structure, and various properties etc... i.e. proper research.

That's not really their purpose in a situation like this.  Yes, VTT is a research institute and is capable of doing research, but donut labs claims they already have a product.  The "research" should already be done.  We just need proper product testing to show that it meets the claims or not. 

[kiko_kikkou]

Donut Lab put its battery in a Verge motorcycle – Here's how it charged
Donut Lab's fourth VTT report is not a laboratory test at VTT. Instead, Donut Lab published a charging test of the Verge TS Pro electric motorcycle with a fast charger.

Now, in its fourth announcement, the company is publicly demonstrating the functionality of the battery in a vehicle at the battery pack level for the first time, in other words, in the Verge electric motorcycle connected to Donut Lab.

Donut Lab boasts in its press release that exceptionally fast charging, in under ten minutes, is possible for a motorcycle. The fast charging test used a previous generation Verge motorcycle, fitted with a new model year battery pack, in other words, Donut Lab's miracle battery.

The battery pack is said to have a nominal capacity of 18 kilowatt-hours. Donut Lab says the battery pack charges three times faster than Verge's previous battery. According to the press release, the results will be even better after Verge's optimization.

In Donut Lab's test, the motorcycle battery was charged using a public fast charger. The company says that the battery pack temperature is around 20 degrees Celsius at the start of the test. During the charging session, a peak charging power of over 100 kW (5C charging rate) is maintained for five minutes, during which the bike's battery charge increases from 10 percent to 50 percent.

The press release states that a 10–70 percent charge level is reached in just over 9 minutes, and 10–80 percent in 12 minutes. In the test, the bike reached a speed of 5C, which is a very respectable figure for an air-cooled motorcycle battery.

– This is the first test we have published to the general public that demonstrates the performance and behavior of multiple battery cells in a real vehicle environment. The high energy density of our battery technology enables flexible battery pack design and superior performance even in more challenging applications, such as motorcycles, where space is limited and system simplicity is key. We are able to offer vehicle manufacturers packs with different energy capacities in the same physical size, even the smallest of which have very high capacities, says Ville Piippo, CTO of Donut Lab.

Charging session in video
The video published by the company shows how the charging process works. The behavior in the video matches the figures in Donut Lab's press release. The battery reaches an 80 percent charge level in 12 minutes. Donut Lab itself does not disclose the average charging power, but it can be calculated based on the amount of energy charged and the time used. In this case, the average power for a 10–80 percent charging session is 69.3 kW.

The charging session looks plausible at first glance in the video. In our experience, the charging screen of the charger brand in question is the one shown in the video. The camera filming the charging screen up close is not visible in the footage shot from a distance, which would indicate that the sessions were recorded at different times.

The Verge factory is located in Estonia. Judging from the Donut Lab video, the motorcycle charging test was conducted at the Irun Circle K station in Tallinn, which is the geographically closest station to the Verge factory building.

No VTT report at all
Donut Lab previously strongly implied that the company's test series would only apply to VTT test reports. Now, however, the fourth test is not related to the VTT report in any way, and the VTT report is not available for download at all on the company's Idonutbelieve website. A new countdown has been launched on the website for the week, meaning that even more video reports are coming.

The report published last week was quite anticlimax in the eyes of the general public. The report only proved a single myth, namely that the Donut Lab battery is not a supercapacitor. Analysts agreed with the tests. Juho Heiska, head of research and development at Seinäjoki University of Applied Sciences, already stated based on the first report that it is not a supercapacitor. In other words, the third test was, in hindsight, a bit pointless.

Problems in previous tests
In the tests conducted by VTT, not everything went exactly according to the script set by Donut Lab. In the first test, which measured the battery charging speed, the Donut Lab battery heated up considerably, and the test had to be interrupted. In the second, a charging test in hot conditions, the Donut Lab battery's pouch cell lost its tightness.

VTT's laboratory tests have therefore encountered variables that Donut Lab itself had not expected. However, Donut Lab must be given points for having published the reports as they were, and also openly reported in its own communications, for example, about the failure of the bag cell.

https://www.kauppalehti.fi/uutiset/a/15c8dee6-7cad-4d31-8603-c8c898b196ca?ref=ampparit%3A570d

[Randy222]

I still a bit confused.

The nutLAB has innovative donut style e-motors that apparently are 1) less $$ to make, 2) lighter, 3) make lots of power.

Why are the lab nuts trying to tout a battery when it's not in their wheelhouse? 

[LogicDude]

Note that even the donut style e-motor is questionable because it represents a lot of extra unsprung weight on the motorcycle.  The motorcycle must make a really unpleasant "thunk" when it goes over a large bump or hole in the road.  In addition, it is putting more stress on the tires.

The donut motor certainly is interesting but is it possible that it's a solution looking for a problem?

However, it looks cool.

One of my pet rants is the Cybertruck.  It looks cool in a sci-fi way but as a pickup truck it's a piece of junk.  There is even a risk of it chopping your fingers off!

Back to the electric motorcycle.  Waiting to see what a real buyer posts about it.  When will they ship?  And is somebody going to open it up and tear down the battery pack and cut open one of those batteries???  It would be an expensive endeavor but you never know.

[Haenk]

Back to the electric motorcycle.  Waiting to see what a real buyer posts about it.  When will they ship?  And is somebody going to open it up and tear down the battery pack and cut open one of those batteries???  It would be an expensive endeavor but you never know.

My understanding is - they already ship it (with the "old" battery). I'm no motorcycle guy, but from what I have read, it is a mediocre ride at best (looks aside). Hard to imagine a new battery type could improve it a lot. It is just a show bike, and not a daily driver.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Note that even the donut style e-motor is questionable because it represents a lot of extra unsprung weight on the motorcycle.  The motorcycle must make a really unpleasant "thunk" when it goes over a large bump or hole in the road.  In addition, it is putting more stress on the tires.

Not to mention how do you keep dirt & water out of the large joint area

[EEVblog]

Two Bit Da Vinci is getting excited.

[Simmed]

An interesting read.
https://s3images.coroflot.com/user_files/individual_files/original_pdf_221275_mbm9je8xj0qgxtvx5f0ga0f3q.pdf

im sorry i cannot unsee this
 
 

[Haenk]

im sorry i cannot unsee this

Even exploring bad ideas might lead to better ideas; however a "this might work, but might also be a bad idea"-approach is something completely different to a "trust me bro, I invented something, will not show it to you, but give me all your money anyway", like I suspect Donut Lab to be.

[EEVblog]

TLDR;
Still massively skeptical.

[Cyclotron]

TLDR;
Still massively skeptical.

If they were looking to get attention, it worked. Everyone is putting out an opinion.

[Siwastaja]

If they were looking to get attention, it worked. Everyone is putting out an opinion.

It seems they totally succeeded in making everyone believe they have a product. Maybe an iffy product, but some sort of unique product manufactured by them.

Initially that was the core of criticism - do they have anything at all? They have provided absolutely zero proof they have built anything, yet all that discussion is 100% gone. Now everything is about if maybe there is some good hidden gem lurking behind their mostly underwhelming tests, and maybe the next report is interesting. It seems I'm one of the few who still suspects that they are just testing some random commercial off-the-shelf cell as a decoy. That would perfectly align with all the test results.

[SteveThackery]

I've noticed a slight softening of the scepticism. Let's be honest - some of us are just a teeny bit less sure that it's all a bullshit scam than we were a month ago. I can feel it.

As for me, I haven't the first clue about any of it so I've no idea what to believe.

[EEVblog]

If they were looking to get attention, it worked. Everyone is putting out an opinion.

It seems they totally succeeded in making everyone believe they have a product. Maybe an iffy product, but some sort of unique product manufactured by them.

You don't have a product until you ship it in volume into the market.
Especially with these magical woo-woo claims.

[Bud]

There was no practical number of charge/discharge cycles demonstrated. Forget about 100 000 cycles, give me a 1000 cycles battery, i'll be happy. Would you want a battery that charges in 5 min but can do it only 10 times before it dies.

[Siwastaja]

If they were looking to get attention, it worked. Everyone is putting out an opinion.

It seems they totally succeeded in making everyone believe they have a product. Maybe an iffy product, but some sort of unique product manufactured by them.

You don't have a product until you ship it in volume into the market.
Especially with these magical woo-woo claims.

And let's not forget that initially the only thing which got exposure for their claims was the claim that the product is complete, ready, in production, and shipping in volumes in Q1/2026. A few days left for the first customers to get their bikes and tear down the batteries 

[EEVblog]

There was no practical number of charge/discharge cycles demonstrated. Forget about 100 000 cycles, give me a 1000 cycles battery, i'll be happy. Would you want a battery that charges in 5 min but can do it only 10 times before it dies.

I think people would be impressed at 100 cycles.
Absolutely no legit reason why this shouldn't have been thoroughly demonstrated from day 1.

[Siwastaja]

There was no practical number of charge/discharge cycles demonstrated. Forget about 100 000 cycles, give me a 1000 cycles battery, i'll be happy. Would you want a battery that charges in 5 min but can do it only 10 times before it dies.

I think people would be impressed at 100 cycles.
Absolutely no legit reason why this shouldn't have been thoroughly demonstrated from day 1.

Not really - the first VTT performance test shows how a standard li-ion cell behaves if abused with excessive charge power. A usual good COTS cell might as well be able to take it for 100 cycles. 1000 cycles would be a real differentiator.

And, nothing about energy density yet.

[SteveThackery]

I think the "elephant in the room" question that has run through this thread is fascinating - if is this a fake or scam, to what end?

I don't buy that it's just a way of milking money out of excitable new investors. If this is fraud on that scale, then it's jail time for the CEO when it all falls apart. Those investors: some of them will have seriously big lawyers.

If/when it falls apart, this is going to destroy the professional reputation of the CEO, plus he'll face massive fines or jail time, plus he'll never be able to get a job at McDonald's, never mind in the industry.

So again: the fascinating question is: why?

[Kean]

So in this latest test they show us 50x cycling at 5C of the "damaged" cell from earlier high temperature tests.  Results show reduced capacity, but also no fire.

Correct me if I am wrong, but they haven't show results of any other extended cycling tests?  We just need to accept that this reduced capacity wouldn't also happen on an undamaged cell.

Sorry, but the way this has been presented so far: I DONUT BELIEVE 

Also weirdly they have pushed out the next test report & video drop by a couple of days to line up with April Fools Day!

[kiko_kikkou]

Sorry im late, I had things to do, but as always, ladies and other ladies, here we go again, part 5:


https://idonutbelieve.com/

[ejeffrey]

Now everything is about if maybe there is some good hidden gem lurking behind their mostly underwhelming tests, and maybe the next report is interesting. It seems I'm one of the few who still suspects that they are just testing some random commercial off-the-shelf cell as a decoy. That would perfectly align with all the test results.

I think a lot of people are making the mistake of treating them as if their testing is "reasonable" in some sense.   That is, they are assuming that the test results are reflective of real word operation.  You would never do performance testing of a NMC cell by charging at 11C and internally heating to 95C or whatever they did.  You would never operate a cell like that in the real world as it would have a very short lifetime and be a serious safety risk in the non-laboratory environment.  People are essentially taking the existence of these tests as evidence that the tests are reasonable to do.

On the other hand, if you change your perspective to: "If someone sent a test lab an off the shelf NMC cell and asked them to run these tests, what results might they get" -- then it seems that nothing shown so far disproves that hypothesis.

That's of course not proof that their battery is a Lithium Ion NMC cell.  It logically _could_ be a lot of things.  Without someone actually doing a teardown and analysis, you can't really *prove* that it's not something unique.  But it means that the results they have shown so far are not by themselves indicative of anything beyond the performance you can get with modern COTS devices.

[ejeffrey]

I think the "elephant in the room" question that has run through this thread is fascinating - if is this a fake or scam, to what end?

I don't buy that it's just a way of milking money out of excitable new investors. If this is fraud on that scale, then it's jail time for the CEO when it all falls apart. Those investors: some of them will have seriously big lawyers.

If/when it falls apart, this is going to destroy the professional reputation of the CEO, plus he'll face massive fines or jail time, plus he'll never be able to get a job at McDonald's, never mind in the industry.

So again: the fascinating question is: why?

There are some pretty common paths that people go down to land at doing a fraud.

Probably the most likely fit is that they did have something: some laboratory prototype, some promising  initial result, something that gets them excited and supported raising early money.   But then they run into inevitable problems trying to turn that into something practical, and follow the "fake it till you make it" route.  Substituting a working product for your prototype is a common strategy here, and then the performance deficits compared to your promises can just be chalked up to "it's a prototype".  Theranos famously did this all the way through commercialization, taking extra blood as "backup" and running it through standard test equipment to cover for the fact that their own stuff didn't work.

I've met a number of people with strong technical backgrounds, but who have completely swallowed the startup culture hype. All they really want to do is make a startup, and don't really care what it does.  On paper if you look at their CV, they often have advanced degrees, have done solid research, or even been involved in successful product development.  But because their actual internal goal isn't to make a product or anything concrete but just "to have a startup", they will overlook critical flaws until they are in over their head.  They also often believe that "hustle" can make up for a lack of basic science and engineering.

This mentality is most obvious when listening to people working on actual physically nonsensical things like cold fusion and EM-drive.  Some people just believe that if they want it to work, it will.  Nothing Donut Lab is promising is obviously impossible from a fundamental physics point of view, but it could easily be the same mentality.

I also think it's incredibly naive to think that if this all blows up the CEO will be blacklisted and not be able to get a job in the industry.  Trevor Milton was caught, among other things, faking a fuel cell powered semi by rolling it down hill.  He is now out of jail and CED of an aircraft company.