keyboard for programmers, any recommendations?

[Howardlong]

Never a numeric keypad for me, ever.  With the keyboard centered in front of me and my index fingers on the home row F and J keys, a full-size PC keyboard pushes the mouse out so far it's uncomfortable to use.  If so much software didn't rely on arrow keys I would use keyboards without that whole section as well, to reduce the distance to the mouse even further.  But it's not as disqualifyingly bad as with a numeric pad.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I was brought up with numeric keypads, both as a bank teller in my student vacations and during the days of the IBM XT model F. For work, I find it a handicap without one for serious work such as on most laptops, but can get by, but I have been surprised how much I use it on a 17" LG Gram lappy I bought  18 months ago. YMMV ;-)

[PaulAm]

The best keyboard I ever used was a Sun Type 3; did a lot of development on that system.

Now, I just have a crappy Dell but I used a Type M for quite a while.

[blacksheeplogic]

A fancy keyboard does not make you a programmer, and elitist programming keyboard just confirms your a moron. The only factors that matter are is it comfortable to use, ergonomic and fits your needs. I prefer having ten-keys because I spend time in apps that are more efficient with a ten-key pad, in VIM I use hjkl to move around but a lot of apps I use having arrow keys is a plus.

I don't understand the trend for small keyboards that require complex key combinations to enter common text chars. They don't make you a programmer but if it makes you feel special OK I guess. My perspective is that people asking and especially posting about their programming keyboards are the type of people who crave conformation and really are copy-paste kiddies.

[brucehoult]

My perspective is that people asking and especially posting about their programming keyboards are the type of people who crave conformation and really are copy-paste kiddies.

Or, worse, people who could be copy=pasting but type it all by hand instead.

I've never found typing speed limiting my programming speed. It's my brain that does that.

The Microsoft keyboards and mice are plenty good enough, cheap enough, and available everywhere. I used them even on my M1 Mac Mini :-)

[SilverSolder]

My perspective is that people asking and especially posting about their programming keyboards are the type of people who crave conformation and really are copy-paste kiddies.

Or, worse, people who could be copy=pasting but type it all by hand instead.

I've never found typing speed limiting my programming speed. It's my brain that does that.

The Microsoft keyboards and mice are plenty good enough, cheap enough, and available everywhere. I used them even on my M1 Mac Mini :-)

Microsoft peripherals are usually at least half decent, and often good to excellent.

[PlainName]

I am having a vague urge to make my own keyboard since one that suits perfectly either doesn't exist or costs a medium fortune. A lot of this (the urge) is down to the availability of resources for keyboard hackers, from keycaps through layout generators, but one of the things I would want it to be is wireless.

Coming at this from scratch I would think that the link between keyboard and dongle would be a custom protocol, with the USB handling of keycodes and stuff entirely within the dongle. The keyboard wants to be very low powered, which would normally suggest that power is only applied when a key is pressed, but it seems to me that doing it that way would lead to perceptible delays since the Tx (and whatever is encoding stuff) needs to wake up before anything is sent. Obviously, they could be left 'warm' but maybe that would drain the battery quite quickly.

I had the opportunity to try a Logitech MX keyboard and the battery in that lasted a reasonable time (despite having backlit keys!) and there was no delay that I noticed when playing Wreckfest or Trackmania. So it can be done. Anyone got any thoughts on this?

[tszaboo]

I don't understand the trend for small keyboards that require complex key combinations to enter common text chars. They don't make you a programmer but if it makes you feel special OK I guess. My perspective is that people asking and especially posting about their programming keyboards are the type of people who crave conformation and really are copy-paste kiddies.

I didn't understand it either. Talked to some people about it, it is up to ergonomics. If you have a keyboard witch is 40% (see below) a lot of keys are missing, and you need to keep the combinations in head. They explained that they have used vim for a long time, so using characters  to move the cursor is second nature. And they can place their fingers on the middle row, and there is no hand movement is necessary for typing.
Same for layouts, like Ergodox, it is about reducing fatique. That being said, I use a 100% keyboard, because that's what Im used to, and I use numbers.

I am having a vague urge to make my own keyboard since one that suits perfectly either doesn't exist or costs a medium fortune. A lot of this (the urge) is down to the availability of resources for keyboard hackers, from keycaps through layout generators, but one of the things I would want it to be is wireless.

Making your own keyboard will for sure cost more than something from the store. I say this from experience. That being said, I enjoy it as a hobby.  most custom boards are built around the QMK firmware, which started with Atmega32 and wireless is afterthought. it has the most support, like layout generators and lot of hardware for it.
For wireless, I would go with the ZMK : https://zmk.dev
They seem to have a power profiler on the website. I put in a 2400mAh battery size, that is a typical 18650, and resulted ~1 year battery life.
I haven't tried the ZMK yet.

[PlainName]

For wireless, I would go with the ZMK : https://zmk.dev

Ah! Thank you 

Making your own keyboard will for sure cost more than something from the store.

Yes, I thought it might. I priced up a JLCPCB and I think that's reasonable - the laser-cut ally plate would be the killer price though. And that assumes it's right first time and doesn't need a respin or several. OTOH, since it would be paid in installments perhaps the extortionate cost wouldn't be noticed so readily

[tszaboo]

For wireless, I would go with the ZMK : https://zmk.dev

Ah! Thank you 

Making your own keyboard will for sure cost more than something from the store.

Yes, I thought it might. I priced up a JLCPCB and I think that's reasonable - the laser-cut ally plate would be the killer price though. And that assumes it's right first time and doesn't need a respin or several. OTOH, since it would be paid in installments perhaps the extortionate cost wouldn't be noticed so readily

FYI, JLCPCB charged me 20 EUR (if I recall) extra compared to their normal price for a plate. For "excessive milling".
The PCB was regular price.
I don't know what sort of layout you want to make, but probably the easiest is to start with an existing keyboard case, which comes with a plate. Keys on regular keyboard are supposed to be in a certain row, so you cannot replace a Q with a Z for example, because the angle of it is different. Unless you go with a DSA profile (there are others), where all the keys have the same shape. So there are some restrictions, and some ways around it.

[PlainName]

I don't know what sort of layout you want to make

Similar to this one: 98-key layout

But ISO, so the left shift is shorter and the return key is two high instead of 2 across.

probably the easiest is to start with an existing keyboard case

Yes, I figured the case would be the hardest so going with an existing one would make sense. In fact, going with existing anything where they exist is fine by me - got plenty of other projects to spend time on!