New Processor Choice

[MK14]

Really MK14? You wasted all that time and energy and achieved exactly nothing.

Allow me to retort...

Having a "favourite" of something doesn't equal being loyal to a particular brand. If Supermicro went to shit, I'd drop them in a heartbeat. However, my use case is affordable, reasonably high-end and reliable workstations and servers. Supermicro fits the bill. If I had stupid amounts of money to spend, I'd be looking at IBM or Dell. You might have a favourite chocolate, but what if it changed and you didn't like it anymore? Would you keep buying it or recommending it to others? No, of course not. You're suggesting I'm being a hypocrite, which is the furthest from the truth.

Secondly, I never said that Supermicro don't sell AMD-based boards, they absolutely do and have for a long time. What I said was out of their current range of desktop/workstation boards, none of them were AMD based. If you have a look at their server boards, yes, they absolutely have models which support AMD processors, but I didn't include it since it's not what the OP was asking and is completely irrelevant to the conversation. But since you raised it, of their current range of 219 server motherboards listed on their website, only 33 support AMD CPUs.

I'll accept your apology by way of you amending your post ;-)

I understand what you are saying, and I think I understand why you think you are correct!
But, I still DON'T agree.

My explanation, would be way, way too long, and damaging to this thread, so I'd prefer to leave it out.

But, a very quick summery/tl;dr. Counting the available motherboards, of a particular type, is not a good way of measuring the qualities, merits and capabilities of different manufacturers.
It would be like me saying there are 100's of varieties of Linux versions out their, but only one Windows 10 Home edition. It isn't a good measure of windows vs Linux.
Desktop motherboards (which are really workstation/server/professional cpu based, such as Xeon), are not a market area, that AMD has decided to exploit, much or at all, yet. As regards their latest cpus. But that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with AMD.
AMD decided, instead, to create their Threadripper series, as a kind of workstation come desktop, entry into the market place. Which is part of the reason why.
I'd better stop, or my post(s), will get too large.

[Halcyon]

My explanation, would be way, way too long, and damaging to this thread, so I'd prefer to leave it out.

Well that lasted only a few seconds. ;-)

But, a very quick summery/tl;dr. Counting the available motherboards, of a particular type, is not a good way of measuring the qualities, merits and capabilities of different manufacturers.
It would be like me saying there are 100's of varieties of Linux versions out their, but only one Windows 10 Home edition. It isn't a good measure of windows vs Linux.
Desktop motherboards (which are really workstation/server/professional cpu based, such as Xeon), are not a market area, that AMD has decided to exploit, much or at all, yet. As regards their latest cpus. But that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with AMD.
AMD decided, instead, to create their Threadripper series, as a kind of workstation come desktop, entry into the market place. Which is part of the reason why.
I'd better stop, or my post(s), will get too large.

Yep, you are right. It has absolutely nothing to do with what I was saying, but you are right. I don't disagree with anything you said there.

[MK14]

I'll accept your apology by way of you amending your post ;-)

I think (although I partly try not to do this), I am ending up being a bit (or more), of an AMD fan boy. I try to also consider Intel, arm and others. Sorry, if I've come across as being too argumentative.

EDIT: I do have one (big to me), complaint about the current, latest and upcoming, high core count, AMD cpus. The 12 core and 16 core, don't have any form of inbuilt integrated graphics. This is a problem, if I want to have a computer, e.g. for electronics work, or serious computer activities. Which needs more than the 4 cores (currently) available on their APUs, so that the bigger 12 or 16 core cpus, are desired.
The problem with adding a graphics card, is that they tend to waste lots of electricity, can cost a lot (because the bitcoin miners can make graphics cards excessively expensive and/or hard to obtain). It is also a waste if such a computer is not going to be used to play games. They can also be noisy, if they have fans.
I.e. a non-gaming, home based computer.
(I do know, you can get cheap, low power consumption, simple, passively cooled graphics cards, but tend to get greedy, and want something better. Human nature I guess).
But, when/if they release 8 core APUs, I guess those will be good enough for such roles. since 8 cores, is still pretty powerful and decent, for most normal activities.

[olkipukki]

AMD decided, instead, to create their Threadripper series, as a kind of workstation come desktop, entry into the market place.

AMD defined only recently what is AMD workstation class CPU - AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO. Everything else either gamer or enthusiast stuff.

Before that, the definition was water down and up to MB manufactures to define that...

[MK14]

AMD decided, instead, to create their Threadripper series, as a kind of workstation come desktop, entry into the market place.

AMD defined only recently what is AMD workstation class CPU - AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO. Everything else either gamer or enthusiast stuff.

Before that, the definition was water down and up to MB manufactures to define that...

I guess they are addressing, part of what we were discussing earlier, as regards Supermicro, and 'workstation' boards. If that does or doesn't include Supermicro, in the future, I don't know.

If it means the Threadripper PROs, will formally include support for ECC memory, then I'm all for that!
I know some motherboards and AMD cpus, allowed ECC support, but I don't think it was formally acknowledged (by AMD, officially), on their cheaper, non-server (Epyc) cpus.

[olkipukki]

Don't forget about a new socket (yes, again!) and 8-channels memory.

Hopefully, RDIMM will be in use rather than UDIMM...

[MK14]

Don't forget about a new socket (yes, again!) and 8-channels memory.

Hopefully, RDIMM will be in use rather than UDIMM...

It has got RDIMM, as well. I was just reading about it (after your post about it). See here:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/amd-takes-on-intels-xeon-chips-with-threadripper-pro-3000wx/

Yes, 8 channels of memory, rather than the 4, which the existing threadripper has. Should be a big  (or reasonable) improvement. For people, who use them as very powerful workhorses, with giant applications, consuming huge amounts of memory bandwidth/horse-power.

[BravoV]

A bit off topic on CPU selection, but still related imo, my latest acquisition, an octa-cores laptop, Asus Zephyrus G14, and this is the 1st time in my life, that my laptop's cpu has the same core counts as my desktop machine. 

Not sure in desktop, workstation or server fronts, but in laptop's front, AMD surely destroy Intel, cmiiw.

[NiHaoMike]

I do have one (big to me), complaint about the current, latest and upcoming, high core count, AMD cpus. The 12 core and 16 core, don't have any form of inbuilt integrated graphics. This is a problem, if I want to have a computer, e.g. for electronics work, or serious computer activities. Which needs more than the 4 cores (currently) available on their APUs, so that the bigger 12 or 16 core cpus, are desired.
The problem with adding a graphics card, is that they tend to waste lots of electricity, can cost a lot (because the bitcoin miners can make graphics cards excessively expensive and/or hard to obtain). It is also a waste if such a computer is not going to be used to play games. They can also be noisy, if they have fans.
I.e. a non-gaming, home based computer.
(I do know, you can get cheap, low power consumption, simple, passively cooled graphics cards, but tend to get greedy, and want something better. Human nature I guess).
But, when/if they release 8 core APUs, I guess those will be good enough for such roles. since 8 cores, is still pretty powerful and decent, for most normal activities.

To be fair, high end Intel CPUs don't have integrated graphics either. There's just not much market for a really fast CPU but low end graphics outside of servers. Of which, have you considered a used server?

But when a GTX 1650 is only $120, why complain? It will even handle advanced 1080p to 4K upscaling with ease.
https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-geforce-gtx-1650-gv-n1650ixoc-4gd/p/N82E16814932300
Or you can go for a GTX 1030 for $90 but I call that silly when you lose a lot of graphics performance for a small savings.
https://www.newegg.com/msi-geforce-gt-1030-gt-1030-2gh-lp-oc/p/N82E16814137140

[olkipukki]

I know some motherboards and AMD cpus, allowed ECC support, but I don't think it was formally acknowledged (by AMD, officially), on their cheaper, non-server (Epyc) cpus.

I would suggest to be quiet about that, sometimes works as a red rag to a bull 

[MK14]

To be fair, high end Intel CPUs don't have integrated graphics either. There's just not much market for a really fast CPU but low end graphics outside of servers. Of which, have you considered a used server?

But when a GTX 1650 is only $120, why complain? It will even handle advanced 1080p to 4K upscaling with ease.
https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-geforce-gtx-1650-gv-n1650ixoc-4gd/p/N82E16814932300
Or you can go for a GTX 1030 for $90 but I call that silly when you lose a lot of graphics performance for a small savings.
https://www.newegg.com/msi-geforce-gt-1030-gt-1030-2gh-lp-oc/p/N82E16814137140

You're right, Intel are similar, at the higher ends (core counts).
The increasing use/availability of 4K modes on monitors/TVs, and increase in graphics use on so much software, these days. Means that even non-gaming PCs, may still benefit, from having decent graphics capabilities.

I think the upcoming (hopefully), 8 core APUs, will solve all these problems, in one go. 8 cores is enough to be considered to be fairly powerful, and its inbuilt graphics, powerful enough for 4K, even if some graphics processing is required.

8 cores is kind of a sweet spot at the moment. Fast enough, for most software, and yet cheap enough, to not be considered excessive. It is gradually becoming the new norm, which quad core use to be.

[KungFuJosh]

Unfortunately this is just like the Apple vs. PC, iOS vs. Android, Sony vs. Nintendo arguments.

Pardon me sir, but I believe you mean Sony vs. Xbox, Nintendo is for children.

[KungFuJosh]

A bit off topic on CPU selection, but still related imo, my latest acquisition, an octa-cores laptop, Asus Zephyrus G14, and this is the 1st time in my life, that my laptop's cpu has the same core counts as my desktop machine. 

Not sure in desktop, workstation or server fronts, but in laptop's front, AMD surely destroy Intel, cmiiw.

Weird coincidence! I was just looking at those laptops for my wife (after I recover from my upgrade). How do you like it?

[KungFuJosh]

I wound up going with the ASUS ROG X570 Crosshair VIII Hero (Wi-Fi). I just couldn't argue with that sexy back(panel).

I'm looking forward to seeing how well that runs with the 3900X.

Thanks,
Josh

[MK14]

I wound up going with the ASUS ROG X570 Crosshair VIII Hero (Wi-Fi). I just couldn't argue with that sexy back(panel).

I'm looking forward to seeing how well that runs with the 3900X.

Thanks,
Josh

Well done! It looks really nice. I'm feeling very jealous, now.
So many USB ports, and modern/high spec ones, at that, for many of them.
With well designed/sized VRMs (I would suspect, on such a motherboard), it should give you many trouble free years and longer, of computing.

[BravoV]

A bit off topic on CPU selection, but still related imo, my latest acquisition, an octa-cores laptop, Asus Zephyrus G14, and this is the 1st time in my life, that my laptop's cpu has the same core counts as my desktop machine. 

Not sure in desktop, workstation or server fronts, but in laptop's front, AMD surely destroy Intel, cmiiw.

Weird coincidence! I was just looking at those laptops for my wife (after I recover from my upgrade). How do you like it?

Just feel surreal with 8 cores / 16 threads cpu on laptop, and mine has been upgraded to 40GB of RAM, as I do VMs intensively.

So far no complain, it uses magnesium chassis, not those plasticity cheap feel case, and what I most valued is, it can be charged thru USB C plug (PD), although slower charge rate compared using it's own power adapter (3hrs vs 1 hrs), but when in mobile mode, this ability is really handy, as I can use the same charger for my phone and/or from power-bank, or in the car thru cigarette usb plug. 

Dunno about your wife, if its just for casual browsing, office and normal avg. joe/jane's usage, this machine is overkill imo.

[KungFuJosh]

Dunno about your wife, if its just for casual browsing, office and normal avg. joe/jane's usage, this machine is overkill imo.

Awesome. My wife also does web design, graphic design, video editing, and some photography. She'll definitely benefit from it. Plus even Best Buy has a version with the 4900HS, RTX2060, 1TB SSD, 16GB RAM, etc... for $1400. By the time I buy it, maybe it will be even cheaper. ...and it's already cheaper than the MSI Intel based laptops I was looking at for her previously.

[bd139]

Ooh that's pretty nicely priced as well.

[BravoV]

Dunno about your wife, if its just for casual browsing, office and normal avg. joe/jane's usage, this machine is overkill imo.

Awesome. My wife also does web design, graphic design, video editing, and some photography. She'll definitely benefit from it. Plus even Best Buy has a version with the 4900HS, RTX2060, 1TB SSD, 16GB RAM, etc... for $1400. By the time I buy it, maybe it will be even cheaper. ...and it's already cheaper than the MSI Intel based laptops I was looking at for her previously.

As RAM price now is falling like a rock, just fill up to 32GB for her, she will definitely will love it as her big RAM requirement, also it uses 3200Mhz SODIMM DDR4 RAM which is quite cheap nowadays compared to few years ago.

If that is case of her normal usage, then I recommend it, as 14" sized feel not too small, yet not too bulky like 15" laptop.

[BravoV]

I wound up going with the ASUS ROG X570 Crosshair VIII Hero (Wi-Fi). I just couldn't argue with that sexy back(panel).

I'm looking forward to seeing how well that runs with the 3900X.

Thanks,
Josh

You should consider ECC memory too to accompany that mobo. 

[KungFuJosh]

I wound up going with the ASUS ROG X570 Crosshair VIII Hero (Wi-Fi). I just couldn't argue with that sexy back(panel).

I'm looking forward to seeing how well that runs with the 3900X.

Thanks,
Josh

You should consider ECC memory too to accompany that mobo. 

Haha, I am. I'm hoping my 32GB (total) of DDR4 2400 will be good enough for now considering the cost...especially because I want to switch to 32GB modules. Any recommendations for 32GB ECC modules that won't require a second mortgage?

[bd139]

Look at Crucial memory modules. Their ECC is affordable.

[coppice]

Look at Crucial memory modules. Their ECC is affordable.

That means nothing. Everything is affordable if you are rich enough.

[bd139]

If cost is a problem you’re not buying ECC.

I don’t use it in my desktop. Because cost is a problem. My non-ECC complement was £300 which hurts bad enough already.

[BravoV]

I wound up going with the ASUS ROG X570 Crosshair VIII Hero (Wi-Fi). I just couldn't argue with that sexy back(panel).

I'm looking forward to seeing how well that runs with the 3900X.

Thanks,
Josh

You should consider ECC memory too to accompany that mobo. 

Haha, I am. I'm hoping my 32GB (total) of DDR4 2400 will be good enough for now considering the cost...especially because I want to switch to 32GB modules. Any recommendations for 32GB ECC modules that won't require a second mortgage?

Yeah, they're quite pricey. 

Currently I'm at 32GB only, use two sticks of 16GB. But mine are the rare breed using legendary but discontinued Samsung B-die chips. They're rated at 2400Mhz, but even without touching at voltage at all like VDDR, stays at stock 1.2V, I can simply can push to 2933MHz without any effort at all while using the 2400's timing. I'm lazy to squeeze more as don't want to waste countless hours or nights just tweaking for more speed. Maybe one day when I have times and energy to spend to try to hit say at 3200 with CL like 15, maybe that will be enough for me.

I did a pointless rant on overclocking my ecc -> HERE 

Managed to deliberately inducing ram error, by running the ram below 1.2V  while still can boot properly, and had successfully captured the "corrected" bit flips twice on linux using rasdaemon.

Photo of my Samsung B-die ECC.