UK forum members, BREXIT?

[vodka]

The Obamist should better keep his mouth shut. His country chose an UsExit from Britain in 1776, they are the separatists.

You don't wrong the USexit were funded by the Spanish Kingdom and France Kingdom , without them ,the yankees had been massacred as the Boers.

Besides ,their USA dollars are based at Spanish dollars.



http://www.historiayarqueologia.com/m/blogpost?id=3814916%3ABlogPost%3A375811

[Brumby]

Nctnico,

I see you asked for an example of what the UK does better in terms of technology than all EU countries.

Simple...... Four words. ...... Rolls Royce Aero engines

Rolls Royce have been doing very good things with aircraft engines for quite some time.  They powered my favourite aircraft - the Spitfire.  That was quite some time ago ... and they're still doing good work.

[Fraser]

MT,

I am sad that you resorted to posting an image of the pond life that is Saville. Poor taste mate. He does not represent what it is to be British or anything about our culture. He is hated throughout the UK for what he did. No one is defending his actions. Every country has child molesters, he was sadly in a unique position to take advantage of celebrity and avoid detection.

Fraser

[vodka]

We are part of Europe, but we don't belong in the EU. It is the EU we have rejected, not the ordinary people of Europe.

The EU is fundamentally opposite to us culturally. As a German, I don't expect you to understand. I know a lot of Germans, mostly we get on, and we can have a drink and a laugh, but none actually understand English culture, just as I don't understand some of the things I've come across in Germany ('being the father' - culturally acceptable bullying from my point of view), we have very different history and geography and have made our way to where we are now separately.

My kids aren't facing a grimmer future now we've released ourselves from the EU. There may be some temporary
pain, but we'll get past it to hopefully a brighter future where we aren't tied to the failing EU experiment.

English culture? Your right, no one understands the English love for English eccentricity. Whom do you define as ordinary people of EU who's not part of EU? From when in time do you consider you braked away and formed a particularly English culture? After the demise of Romans? House of Plantagenet?The Vikings?

More English culture

[continuo]

Well, let's assume that the BREXIT decision and the UK breaks away.... What next?

IMO, they won't do it. The longer it takes them to trigger article 50, the less likely it is they will ever do it. This will go on for months and years without any clear action. All they've achieved with their "referendum" was to wreck havoc onto themselves and the whole EU 

[doobedoobedo]

Whom do you define as ordinary people of EU who's not part of EU?

I'm fairly certain you're being deliberately obtuse.

I said people of Europe as in geographic location.

The EU is the corrupt, anti-democratic organisation.

We have a culture of liking and upholding democracy, as I think you've just witnessed. The EU has a culture of punishing those who dare to exercise democracy.

[Delta]

Nctnico,

I see you asked for an example of what the UK does better in terms of technology than all EU countries.

Simple...... Four words. ...... Rolls Royce Aero engines

Rolls Royce have been doing very good things with aircraft engines for quite some time.  They powered my favourite aircraft - the Spitfire.  That was quite some time ago ... and they're still doing good work.

Rolls Royce aircraft engines are like the Rolls Royce of aircraft engines.

[zapta]

I don't understand why the continentals are so upset about Brexit.

Membership in the EU is voluntary and one member chose to leave. This is their country and their prerogative and they do in accordance with EU rules.

[continuo]

It's more of a disappointment, at least to me. And don't forget, our linked economies also suffer by their childish actions, albeit admittedly to a far lesser degree than theirs but still. Of course, it's their right to leave at any time if they wish to do so, the door is wide open, they just have to sign article 50. But somehow I have this nagging feeling that this is never going to happen. At the end we all will be left with lots of burned money and political instability but nothing much gained for the UK. But yes, a day of national pride will be worth it 

[vodka]

Whom do you define as ordinary people of EU who's not part of EU?

I'm fairly certain you're being deliberately obtuse.

I said people of Europe as in geographic location.

The EU is the corrupt, anti-democratic organisation.

We have a culture of liking and upholding democracy, as I think you've just witnessed. The EU has a culture of punishing those who dare to exercise democracy.

Sir Samuel Romilly, speaking to the House of Commons on capital punishment in 1810, declared that "there is no country on the face of the earth in which there have been so many different offences according to law to be punished with death as in England."[2] Known as the "Bloody Code", at its height the criminal law included some 220 crimes punishable by death, including "being in the company of Gypsies for one month", "strong evidence of malice in a child aged 7–14 years of age" and "blacking the face or using a disguise whilst committing a crime". Many of these offences had been introduced to protect the property of the wealthy classes that emerged during the first half of the 18th century, a notable example being the Black Act of 1723, which created 50 capital offences for various acts of theft and poaching.[citation needed] Crimes eligible for the death penalty included shoplifting and stealing sheep, cattle, and horses, and before abolition of the death penalty for theft in 1832, "English law was notorious for prescribing the death penalty for a vast range of offenses as slight as the theft of goods valued at twelve pence."[3]

Come on,  The Reichstag compared with the House of Commons were a saints     

[rstofer]

I don't understand why the continentals are so upset about Brexit.

Membership in the EU is voluntary and one member chose to leave. This is their country and their prerogative and they do in accordance with EU rules.

From a distance, one would wonder.  The thing is, the UK is an important member of the EU not least because they are the 4th or 5th largest spender on military in the world.  While other countries can underspend and rely on the UK to take up the slack they are happy but now they might not have the total support of the UK.

For the moment, the leadership of the EU wants to play hardball with the UK believing that none of their actions will be the least bit damaging to NATO.  I wouldn't make that bet!  It is in the continentals' best interest to make the divorce as amicable as possible and, for a start, they need to reign in the rhetoric.  If the EU takes damaging trade positions, the UK might not be able to maintain its military posture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

The folks running the EU better extract their heads from the asses.  This referendum could be the beginning of the end of the EU.

[0xdeadbeef]

We are part of Europe, but we don't belong in the EU. It is the EU we have rejected, not the ordinary people of Europe.

Still the Brits rejected the idea of a unified Europe because they decided to dream of a past glory instead of working on a brighter future.
As a side note: even Churchill understood the European idea when he said: "It is to re-create the European Family, or as much of it as we can, and provide it with a structure under which it can dwell in peace, in safety and in freedom."

As a German, I don't expect you to understand.

What is that supposed to mean? That I can't understand differences in culture because I'm German? Really?

Well I voted leave for better or worse. It was actually partly out of frustration with the ignorance of people don't seem to know how things work. Everything is Europe's fault well now we are out we have only ourselves to blame! I am afraid that if I made the wrong decision it is the fault of the in campaign because instead of playing things in the usual political way of just making counterclaims and telling more lies they should have done things differently. It is well known that there is a lot of ignorance about how things actually work so if the in campaign was so fucking keen why weren't they organising public meetings and lectures for people like myself who genuinely wanted to know what was going on. Instead no they just did like the out campaign told lies and delivered loads of leaflets and try to counteract the claims of the out campaign

It's mildly shocking to see the suspicion confirmed that lots of Brits didn't really understand the consequences of their vote and didn't even care to google the lies of UKIP and Boris Johnson. There's simply no excuse for following dumb populism instead of investigating the unpleasant truth before making a decision that could break your country apart and lead it into misery.

My kids aren't facing a grimmer future now we've released ourselves from the EU. There may be some temporary pain, but we'll get past it to hopefully a brighter future where we aren't tied to the failing EU experiment.

There is no debate that the UK will suffer. Actually this could well be the end of the UK as we know it when Scotland leaves for good and the North Ireland conflict comes up again. Just hope that Wales stays, else it gets really difficult for the Prince of Wales and the Union Jack. And of course the financial impact will be heavy. Lots of companies will move from England, Banks/Bankers will move to Amsterdam and Frankfurt. Chinese EU imports will move from England to Amsterdam, Bremerhaven or whatever. Letting aside if BMW will continue to produce the Mini in the UK and other stuff like this. So yes, times will be bitter for Britain. And not only in the short term.
For the EU: well, not so much. Some things will even get easier. Actually, the cautionary tale of Britains misery might help to stop other nationalist movements.

But Germany's idea of a European superstate, that was entirely alien to us (but very much in line with German thinking)
All it created was nationalism throughout Europe, which then led to Brexit.
[...]
German politicians created Brexit, nobody else.

Wow, I'm somewhat bewildered by statements like that. Living in a state with central government you're probably not aware that Germany is a federal republic. Even though our 16 federal states differ a lot in culture and financial resources, this model of government works good enough for us to believe that something like this should be also possible on an European scale. Of course it's debatable how responsibilities are split withing the federal states and the federation, still not even a Bavarian would say he lost his cultural identity because Bavaria is a part of the German Federation. And of course no German would ever agree with a central government in Brussels nor does any German dream the dream of world domination. Heck, not even the dumbest remaining German Nazi idiots ever uttered that desire after 1945.
I'm not sure if I find it amusing or frustrating to see people all over Europe always blame Germany for their misery based on a bizarre perception of the reality. It's easy of course to shift the blame to someone else instead of thinking of the more uncomfortable idea of having messed up something yourself. Still, really? Our fault again?

[MT]

Whom do you define as ordinary people of EU who's not part of EU?

I'm fairly certain you're being deliberately obtuse.  I said people of Europe as in geographic location.
The EU is the corrupt, anti-democratic organisation.  We have a culture of liking and upholding democracy, as I think you've just witnessed.
The EU has a culture of punishing those who dare to exercise democracy.

I new you would dodge my counter questions due to your hilarious rethorics! You your self dont know what the so called English culture is or stand for or its heritage.

[Bud]

do actually believe what you read from the bbc? theguardian? and then propagate those as facts? 

You cant be that simple minded!?!   Why not read the "whole thread" and the ongoing debate rather fetching for ad hominem and his friends.

So I did and my observation is you constantly derail this thread, often with brainwashed comments particularly hateful towards Russia. You openly called Russia the enemy. You also post seemingly funny pictures but in a context where they may be taken offensively by parts of the audience. I think you do it deliberately to shape the reader's mind. What are you doing on this forum? Do you have an agenda? If not, my advice is the same as that of other people have given you - consume less propaganda and stop derailing this thread, which is otherwise is conducted in a civilized manner given the sensitivity of the topic being discussed.

[zapta]

But yes, a day of national pride will be worth it 

National pride may be hard to understand due to the anti nationalism measures the allies implanted in your culture after 1945.

;-)

[grumpydoc]

No, that is a concern of immigration. Concern about immigration != racism.

Funnily enough it seems that there is now plenty of evidence that there was not just "concern about immigration" but out and out racism behind the Leave vote.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-eu-referendum-racial-racism-abuse-hate-crime-reported-latest-leave-immigration-a7104191.html

The sad thing is that leaving the EU might not reduce immigration. It might even increase it if large numbers rush to "get in before the doors close".

It's also interesting that the Leave campaign started back peddling on some if its core claims almost as soon as the result was known.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/25/leave-campaign-rows-back-key-pledges-immigration-nhs-spending

I hope that we can make this work.

[continuo]

But yes, a day of national pride will be worth it 

National pride may be hard to understand due to the anti nationalism measures the allies implanted in your culture after 1945.

;-)

Yes, they did a very good job on that. And I'm very happy they did it 

[G7PSK]

Whom do you define as ordinary people of EU who's not part of EU?

I'm fairly certain you're being deliberately obtuse.

I said people of Europe as in geographic location.

The EU is the corrupt, anti-democratic organisation.

We have a culture of liking and upholding democracy, as I think you've just witnessed. The EU has a culture of punishing those who dare to exercise democracy.

Sir Samuel Romilly, speaking to the House of Commons on capital punishment in 1810, declared that "there is no country on the face of the earth in which there have been so many different offences according to law to be punished with death as in England."[2] Known as the "Bloody Code", at its height the criminal law included some 220 crimes punishable by death, including "being in the company of Gypsies for one month", "strong evidence of malice in a child aged 7–14 years of age" and "blacking the face or using a disguise whilst committing a crime". Many of these offences had been introduced to protect the property of the wealthy classes that emerged during the first half of the 18th century, a notable example being the Black Act of 1723, which created 50 capital offences for various acts of theft and poaching.[citation needed] Crimes eligible for the death penalty included shoplifting and stealing sheep, cattle, and horses, and before abolition of the death penalty for theft in 1832, "English law was notorious for prescribing the death penalty for a vast range of offenses as slight as the theft of goods valued at twelve pence."[3]

Come on,  The Reichstag compared with the House of Commons were a saints     

Bloody good job we did have laws like that, otherwise we would not be here on this forum.

[Delta]

We are part of Europe, but we don't belong in the EU. It is the EU we have rejected, not the ordinary people of Europe.

Still the Brits rejected the idea of a unified Europe because they decided to dream of a past glory instead of working on a brighter future.

...snip out reams of rhetoric....

Maybe yo should ask some people from the Southern European countries how the "brighter future" is going...

[Delta]

No, that is a concern of immigration. Concern about immigration != racism.

Funnily enough it seems that there is now plenty of evidence that there was not just "concern about immigration" but out and out racism behind the Leave vote.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-eu-referendum-racial-racism-abuse-hate-crime-reported-latest-leave-immigration-a7104191.html

The sad thing is that leaving the EU might not reduce immigration. It might even increase it if large numbers rush to "get in before the doors close".

It's also interesting that the Leave campaign started back peddling on some if its core claims almost as soon as the result was known.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/25/leave-campaign-rows-back-key-pledges-immigration-nhs-spending

I hope that we can make this work.

    Is that what you class as "plenty of evidence".

Over 17,000,000 people disagreed with your opinion on the EU.  That does not make them racist.  You epitomise the Liberal Elite that is incredibly out-of-touch with the people they are meant to represent.

[G0HZU]

It's mildly shocking to see the suspicion confirmed that lots of Brits didn't really understand the consequences of their vote

I'll take it a step further and suggest that the major politicians and economists probably don't know the consequences either. At a time when the global economy is making a slow/uncertain/wobbly recovery it seemed reckless to consider a referendum.

My concern for the UK is that we are an ageing population who aren't as good at manufacturing stuff as we used to be. In my opinion, the leave vote was reinforced by older people who still view the UK (and its future prospects) through rose tinted specs.

Can we have a couple of WW2 Spitfires do a flypast please

[0xdeadbeef]

Maybe yo should ask some people from the Southern European countries how the "brighter future" is going...

Let me guess: this is our fault as well? I would love to be able to live in a simplistic world like that.
Sure, a few decades of mismanagement and cheating on the accession criteria has nothing to do with Greece's current misery.
Still let's see who's most unhappy at the end of the day.

[0xdeadbeef]

I'll take it a step further and suggest that the major politicians and economists probably don't know the consequences either. At a time when the global economy is making a slow/uncertain/wobbly recovery it seemed reckless to consider a referendum.

Of course the exact loss of GDP is impossible to predict. However, I guess no serious economist would dare to predict a bright future in the short or mid term.
This is no excuse though for not informing at all what leaving the EU would mean. Heck, I feel that every other European was better informed than the typical Brit.

My concern for the UK is that we are an ageing population who aren't as good at manufacturing stuff as we used to be. In my opinion, the leave vote was reinforced by older people who still view the UK (and its future prospects) through rose tinted specs.

Well, really? This is why the industrial production in Britain went down? It's not because the Brits decided to earn their money with financial trickery and didn't invest in modern production processes in the last 50 years?

[grumpydoc]

  Is that what you class as "plenty of evidence".

WTF is it then? Is it OK to behave in this way?

Over 17,000,000 people disagreed with your opinion on the EU.  That does not make them racist.  You epitomise the Liberal Elite that is incredibly out-of-touch with the people they are meant to represent.

And 16,141,241 voters agreed. You are behaving as though the result were 99% to 1% not 51.9% to 48.1%

Not all the 17 (and almost a half) voters who backed Leave are racist, it would be madness to suggest that but the fact of increased clearly racial attacks citing the referendum result does not make me feel comfortable.

But what of immigration? - no I am not "out of touch"; it is clearly a sensitive issue even without overt racism.

But we failed to control non-EU immigration which is about half of all immigration. Why? there is a points system to ensure only those workers we need are allowed in.

Could it just be that we actually need these people?
Could it be that we will continue to do so even after leaving the EU?

[doobedoobedo]

No, that is a concern of immigration. Concern about immigration != racism.

Funnily enough it seems that there is now plenty of evidence that there was not just "concern about immigration" but out and out racism behind the Leave vote.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-eu-referendum-racial-racism-abuse-hate-crime-reported-latest-leave-immigration-a7104191.html

The sad thing is that leaving the EU might not reduce immigration. It might even increase it if large numbers rush to "get in before the doors close".

It's also interesting that the Leave campaign started back peddling on some if its core claims almost as soon as the result was known.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/25/leave-campaign-rows-back-key-pledges-immigration-nhs-spending

I hope that we can make this work.

I can assure you that the vast majority of people who voted leave would be just as disgusted at that as you or I.

If the racists think that this was a mandate for them to pedal their hate they have another think coming.