Siglent SDS2000X Plus

[tautech]

Lecroy scopes .... also let you change the background into white (visible in the screenshot only, of course), which saves printer colours.
Don´t know if this could be realized.

Press "Save/Recall" button => "Image Style" => Inverted

let me change Black background to White background on screen shots

Just so. 

Could you please check something for me.......SDS2104X Plus I had now has another home. 

Set Image style Inverted to User Default. (in Save/Recall menu)
Reboot DSO, does the setting Inverted remain as default for the Print button ?

Reported as a problem for another Siglent DSO and requested this behaviour need be corrected in all models.

[Martin72]

Hi Rob,

Reboot DSO, does the setting Inverted remain as default for the Print button ?

Just trying it out now - The setting "Image Style" in the save/recall menu was changed back to normal, after reboot.

EDIT:

Other menu settings ( acquire, trigger for example (tried them)) remains after reboot.

[TK]

It's a display scaling artifact if the menu is visible. With the menu disabled, the waveform is clean. They need to fix the coefficients for the resampling filter. If they have one at all. It looks like they scale the waveform by culling columns without filtering.

(Attachment Link)

When you disable the menu, waveform looks better, but change the timebase and the artifact comes back even with no menu on screen

Screenshot? I can't reproduce it. If you set the timebase long enough, there's some visible aliasing, but it's only an 8-bit ADC and 1024x600 pixels on the display so don't expect miracles.

There is no correlation between a voltage value that the 8-bit ADC calculates and the pixels, you are seeing a composition of 120,000 traces per second, you shouldn't be able to see any artifacts.  Besides, the artifacts are vertical and not horizontal.  It also should change depending on the sampling memory used, and it shows the same artifact at 10K all the way up to 100M.I tried today with a 10KHz signal and without the menu the waveform looks much better.  I will run more tests in the future.  But definitely Siglent needs to fix this.  It does not add any value compressing the image to show the menu.  The menu will be open almost all the time, so after you change a setting, you need to close the menu to see a more reliable waveform, then you change another setting and the menu pops up again, then you need to close it again...

[chris009]

Anyone tried wifi?  I plugged in a TL-WN722N but nothing happens.

[tautech]

Anyone tried wifi?  I plugged in a TL-WN722N but nothing happens.

Welcome to the forum.

WiFi is not an official option.
If it was your USB dongle would be recognised immediately.

Another wireless connectivity option/solution using the scopes LAN socket is here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/cheap-wifi-for-sds1000x-e/

[tautech]

Hi Rob,

Reboot DSO, does the setting Inverted remain as default for the Print button ?

Just trying it out now - The setting "Image Style" in the save/recall menu was changed back to normal, after reboot.

EDIT:

Other menu settings ( acquire, trigger for example (tried them)) remains after reboot.

As expected however I was asking about setting Inverted Print outputs as a User Default.

Maybe you haven't found that functionality yet. 

Either way, neither works as it should in the X-E and have been reported as bugs.

[Elasia]

I never had problem with Batronix and the scope is in stock 

My experience was too painful, waiting 2 days for each question to be answered being charged and no shipment for weeks. I don't know if that is standard practice in Germany but in the US most vendors will only prevalidate your billing until they actually put the product out to you, they take the money when they effectively transfer the product to you.

Saelig without me inquiring provided me an estimate of when it would come in and already wrote me 4 emails about my order's status. They won't bill me anything until it ships. They cancelled my last order in 30 minutes via email and answered their phone in < 5 mins when I called them on my initial order that was put on backorder. I'm going to stick with them and domestic distributors. With EEVblog discount there is 1 dollar difference and no possibility of tariff. 

Times are weird, I wouldn't have normally posted it publicly as I'm fine as long as they actually refund my money in a timely fashion. But I didn't want a bunch of people in the US to have the same issue given it was suggested that they had them and it would be quick.

Wow that sucks.. im glad i stayed away from them and went with Batronix.  I only had to request a custom quote and made mention i found them through the eevblog which i did and Joel gave me 6% off.. im peeved at dhl however for handing my package off to the post office and now i have to wait till tomorrow to get it lol

But straight up, i sent my request late at night their time, Joel was quick to respond that morning, i was then able to load their website and pop a chat.. it took me straight to Joel who hooked me up to finalize the order, the only odd part was I had to ask him for a payment link but other than that he ran it like a normal company PO order.. from there he handed it off to another guy that deals with customs (which i paid no duty tax.. awesome!) and that took 2 days with covid going on but after that it was on a dhl truck by Wednesday of this week for a Monday order. No complaints here

https://www.dhl.com/en/express/tracking.html?AWB=00340434126116614563&brand=DHL

So i'd still say you should go with them and they have stock still posted

https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS2000X-plus.html


And yeah props to saelig, i always go there first if i can. I also shop there and made them a vendor for our company too.

[Elasia]

But definitely Siglent needs to fix this.  It does not add any value compressing the image to show the menu.  The menu will be open almost all the time, so after you change a setting, you need to close the menu to see a more reliable waveform, then you change another setting and the menu pops up again, then you need to close it again...

I completely agree with this... that's going to drive me batty knowing its there and distorting as i always leave menus on just to remind me where i was at

Up vote for passing this along tautech, or at least an option to change its behaviour

[Electro Fan]

SPL2016 logic probes shipped with SDS2000x+ seems very similar to Lecroy posted by tautech, thank you for sharing!

The LA set includes:
1. the PCIe interface cable to 2x 20pin parallel connector (2.54mm raster). All pins on one side of the PCIe are all ground, connected to ground pins on the 20pin connectors (10pin on one side plus 1pin on each end of the other side all grounds). There is 92kOhm serial resistance to be measured between the 8 active pins and and the PCIe active pins.
2. the 20pin parallel connector to single-wire probe cables. All grounds are pass-through, all acive pins have serial resistor 91 Ohm between probe and 20pin connector.
3. a box of probe adapters, same as on tautech photo

I recall someone saying the PCIe adapter use 8x coax ribbon cables. From the PCB photos published here, scope PCB includes LA comparators with threshold voltage adjustment. So it seems, the LA probe is passive only. This was only a quick check, so no warranty. Pls see my SPL2016 photos attached.

Specs for Rigol RPL2316, Siglent SPL2016, and Tek P6616.

[Elasia]

Specs for Rigol RPL2316, Siglent SPL2016, and Tek P6616.

Interesting... the label on the siglent probes has 100K 18pF on it

Also their probe list has the same

https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2017/10/Probe-Datasheet-V2.0E201912.pdf

[maginnovision]

RTB2004 specs aren't too much different either

[Frex]

Hello,

I played yesterday a little with my new toy.
First, i compared the response of the the scope with a fast pulse generator


1) Response of the Rigol MSO2072A (modified for MSO2302A)




2) Same measurement with Siglent SDS2104X-Plus (modified to SDS2354X-Plus)



As we show, results are both very good, but the rise time with Siglent is a little better.
Fine.

Then I tested the Bode plot function, because i have some doubt if that can really work well
with the dynamic range of a scope. I tested lot of stuff, but i show here the response
of a passive 6th order 100kHz low pass filter.

3) Results of low pass filter Bode Plot.




The screenshot show very good response, I'm surprised how the low signal level is very well
measured by the scope to have clear shape down to about -110dB !

In a second time, i have tested the measurement floor and cross-talk by removing the DUT
and placing nothing on channel corresponding to DUT output
(only one channel connected to DUT input from internal generator).

I tested this with reference channel to C2 (near C1) and C4 (far C1) to check if there is
cross-talk issue if we use side channels. Excitation voltage is maximum of 2Vrms
from 5kHz to 50MHz (maximum allowable by the internal generator).
ode plot is  set to auto level.


4) Bode response without DUT (C1-C2) 5kHz to 50MHz 2Vrms.





5) Bode response without DUT (C1-C4) 5kHz to 50MHz 2Vrms.





As we show, the measurement floor  is near -120dB that is very good for the instrument.
There is also no clear cross-talk even at maximum frequency. Congratulation Siglent !

I tested also a 10kHz passive notch filter, and then I download the data results to export to csv format.
After importing this that give the result on the next graph.


6) 10kHz Notch filter response (CSV import).




Now, some comments about this scope from these first hours use ,

• he Bode Plot time is very long and there is no possibility (as i show)
  to choose the averaging/sampling time.
• The UI hang-up if you try to do something when it operate
  (A message would be welcomed)
• When using the function generator, when increasing the frequency with the knob,
  the increment was much too high and change with speed.
  So, impossible to have 1kHz, and move around this value with 1Hz or 10Hz resolution.
  It's however a basic function for a generator.
  It's possible to set a direct frequency, but unusable for varying around a value.
• I don't understand also why in "simple" measurement mode it is not possible to mix
   measurements between channels, that would be great to avoid taking space when it's not needed.
  

Anyway, i must say that the Siglent is very pleasant to use and GUI is overall well done.
The display is big and clear, and comparing to the MSO2072A, the fan noise is much lower.
(Of course the dream would be a fan-less scope, i hate the noise like many others here) .
So, i must to play more with to try all others functions.
Regards.

Frex

[tautech]

Nice post Frex.
A comment if I may....most if not all adjustments that can be made with the multi-function control....if you press the control a virtual keyboard or panel appears where you can enter exact values rather than turn the knob.

Whenever in a submenu and the multifunction light comes on, press the control for additional input options.
Addition of a mouse for control speeds the use of the virtual keyboards somewhat too.

[Frex]

Hello tautech,

I think you have misreading my post.
I have seen that we can us the virtual keyboard to set a direct frequency value.
Anyway, it's unusable if you want to  vary slowly frequency to a target point.
A practical example  is finding the maximal depth of a notch filter.

A convenient way is the ability to select the digit of the setting frequency you want
to change when you turn the knob. So you have any accuracy with the knob.

Here, the knob increment seem to be always the second digit of the select frequency.
Not practical at all for real use.
Anyway, just need to keep in mind for end user that this tool can be IHMO,
only as a secondary generator .

Frex

[thinkfat]

But definitely Siglent needs to fix this.  It does not add any value compressing the image to show the menu.  The menu will be open almost all the time, so after you change a setting, you need to close the menu to see a more reliable waveform, then you change another setting and the menu pops up again, then you need to close it again...

The should fix their display scaling filter. Like you said, the menu is going to be on most of the time and I don't feel like loosing almost two divisions of the screen because they cannot get their display code sorted out. Anyway - it's good to know that the problem is not in the sampled data, therefore measurements are not going to be affected.

[tautech]

Now, some comments about this scope from these first hours use ,


The Bode Plot time is very long and there is no possibility (as i show)
to choose the averaging/sampling time.

Selecting less Bode plot points at the expense of accuracy ?

[Frex]

Now, some comments about this scope from these first hours use ,


The Bode Plot time is very long and there is no possibility (as i show)
to choose the averaging/sampling time.

Selecting less Bode plot points at the expense of accuracy ?

Yes, it is the trick here.
Just to underline that it's the only way.
I notice this morning that Bode plot is limited to start from 10 Hz.
It's weird to have limit this, the generator can go much below (1 µHz).

Frex

[tautech]

Now, some comments about this scope from these first hours use ,


The Bode Plot time is very long and there is no possibility (as i show)
to choose the averaging/sampling time.

Selecting less Bode plot points at the expense of accuracy ?

Yes, it is the trick here.
Just to underline that it's the only way.
I notice this morning that Bode plot is limited to start from 10 Hz.
It's weird to have limit this, the generator can go much below (1 µHz).

Frex

Check the channel input coupling mode when Bode plot is running. 

[Frex]

Ah ! Ok...I will check that. Thanks. 
Do you know what is the "tek mode" in the utility panel ?

Frex

[MyOpinion]

In Tek Mode, the SCPI commands that the instrument understands are adapted to match those of Tektronix.

[Martin72]

Lecroy scopes .... also let you change the background into white (visible in the screenshot only, of course), which saves printer colours.
Don´t know if this could be realized.

Press "Save/Recall" button => "Image Style" => Inverted

let me change Black background to White background on screen shots

It would be better you could change the "printing colours" like lecroy, see below.

[twizla]

It would be better you could change the "printing colours" like lecroy, see below.

Above screenshots really show suboptimum readability of input signal. I have no Lecroy to compare, so can not vote. On my Siglent, when signal slew rate is much faster than horizontal timebase, the vertical trace is very narrow as in your example.

By the way, my -3dB bandwidth is approx 600MHz for CH1-CH3 or CH2-CH4 and is somehow reduced to 530MHz for CH1-CH4 or CH2-CH3.
For maximum bandwidth, the first combination is to be preferred. But, to be honest, the difference is minimum. I can't see any degradation on Leo's pulser.

[Martin72]

Hi Rob,

Reboot DSO, does the setting Inverted remain as default for the Print button ?

Just trying it out now - The setting "Image Style" in the save/recall menu was changed back to normal, after reboot.

EDIT:

Other menu settings ( acquire, trigger for example (tried them)) remains after reboot.

As expected however I was asking about setting Inverted Print outputs as a User Default.

Maybe you haven't found that functionality yet. 

To be honest, I don´t know what you mean with this exactly. 
There´s no print menu or settings for the print button explicit avaible.

Another strange thing:

As I played around with the image style thing, turning it to invert, and press reboot - after the reboot all usb connectivity got lost.
No flashdrive detection, no mouse detection…
Reboot again, nothing changes.
Shut it down, then turning on again - Ports will be detected…..

[Martin72]

Above screenshots really show suboptimum readability of input signal. I have no Lecroy to compare, so can not vote.

But I do.
Leaving the lecroy in the default setup (printing colours are the same as channel colours), the result was the same worse thing ( on screenshot it´s barely visible, but if you print this out, sometimes you see nothing).
Nevertheless, it´s not a thing that must be fixed asap, it could be a nice feature for somewhere in the future.

[Elasia]

Another strange thing:

As I played around with the image style thing, turning it to invert, and press reboot - after the reboot all usb connectivity got lost.
No flashdrive detection, no mouse detection…
Reboot again, nothing changes.
Shut it down, then turning on again - Ports will be detected…..

That happens to the usb root hub if you have a power fault, they dont turn back on until you hard cycle, look for ground loops but if not maybe faulty?  I'd assume they would have one anyway like other products and especially considering its nature.. if not x_x