Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog

[ADJohnson]

Anyone have any idea where I can source these in the UK?  One that I have appears to have damaged housing and won't grip wire.

[McBryce]

Anyone have any idea where I can source these in the UK?  One that I have appears to have damaged housing and won't grip wire.

And with "these" you mean what exactly?

McBryce.

[ADJohnson]

They are the probe tips with a little hook that retract into the housing pulling in and gripping whatever is hooked.  You hold the probe, pull down the housing exposing the hook, grab something then let go.  I thought they were standard fare to be honest.  I want replacement for the PP510 probes.

[tautech]

I've had the occasional new PP510 fail to be replaced under warranty before I ship a scope out so I have some spare grabbers....just a very few.
PM me if you want one.

List on PP510 is just $10 and recent DSO's that use them have had a much better run and now it's rare to get a faulty one.

[ADJohnson]

I’ve sent a PM, very kind of you to offer.

[t1d]

I purchased a SDO1104X-E Oscilloscope. I liked it so much that I just added a SDM3065X Multimeter and a SPD3303X-E PSU. I have not played with them enough to have super-insight, but here are two things I noticed right away.

For the SPD3303X-E PSU... There is not a numeric keypad to enter voltage and current changes directly. You have to scroll from digit to digit and increase/decrease them. This is quiet cumbersome. Yes, I know that you can use a laptop, but I should not have to.

For the SDM3065X Multimeter... I used the screen capture to USB function. I notice that the screenshot is just that... Meaning the picture of the control settings is of what is needed to take the picture, not a picture of the settings used to take the reading. This is with using the DMM controls. I imagine it is different, if you are using a laptop interface. But, I should not be forced to use a laptop.

And, I think the only image format is bmp. I'm not sure all forums will accept that format. But, this is not an area of my expertise. This forum does not use bmp. So, I used Paint to change the format.

[BillB]

For the SPD3303X-E PSU... There is not a numeric keypad to enter voltage and current changes directly. You have to scroll from digit to digit and increase/decrease them.

There are some other supplies that do have a keypad, and they are a nice feature.  But, they do take up panel real estate so in this case its a trade-off for size. 

For the SDM3065X Multimeter... I used the screen capture to USB function. I notice that the screenshot is just that... Meaning the picture of the control settings is of what is needed to take the picture, not a picture of the settings used to take the reading. This is with using the DMM controls.

The same is true for all their DMMs.  In all the measurement functions (DCV,DCA,ACV, etc) there is at least one unused soft-key.  Siglent could map one of those the be a quick screen cap.  Or maybe just a long press of an existing key (like OK) could be used?   

[McBryce]

Hi tautech,
      any idea when Siglent are going to release the latest Firmware for the SHS806? New units come with 5.09.01.07 (which also doesn't fix all known bugs), but the Siglent site only offers 5.09.01.05.


McBryce.

Watch the websites as it's to be released soon due to your request. 

Still no sign of newer Firmware files

McBryce.

[tautech]

Updates from Siglent.

SDL
1. For the EasyDL, we are sorry. It is delayed several times.
SDM
2. The manual adjustment, this function will be finished soon. But this function still require a high accuracy source. So it does not fit for all the users. Change the calibration data is high risk for us and customers.
3. For the larger display dual and temp sensors, these two function are finished.
(SDM3065X FW should be available soon.)

4. For the SHS firmware, we will release it in a week.

[McBryce]

4. For the SHS firmware, we will release it in a week.

Did they mention which week?

McBryce.

[t1d]

I have a brand new SDM3065X. Given some "burn-in" time, I know that test equipment accuracy will stabilize. But, I am having difficulty getting what I would would think is reasonable stabilization, even for new equipment.

Setup
Range = Manual @ 200 ohm
PLC = 100
Auto Zero = On
REL = Off - I considered using this function. I connected all four alligator clips and waited for the unit to settle. It never did. It began at 0.0030 and, over several minutes, it dropped to near zero. Then it started climbing again. So, I did not set REL, because I didn't know what value to capture.
I gave the unit 20-30 minutes of warm-up time, to start.
My lab is in the house. The temperature is as stable as houses get. The heater is running, occasionally, as necessary. It is a central, ducted, whole house type.

As an example, I am presently trying to take a Kelvin/4-Wire resistance reading of a 100 ohm resistor.  I made the connections and wrote down an initial reading, after the resistor had been attached for a few seconds; 98.2925. The value has climbed steadily for about 20 minutes and has just started oscillating around 98.3360 ohms.

Is it typical for this type of measurement to take that long to settle? What should I expect?

I am a hobbyist, but I have been working on circuits for several years now. I have good equipment. Considering my Brymen 869s, it only takes seconds to settle... Yes, I am aware we are talking apples and oranges. I just mention it to give a frame of reference of my experience and, therefore, expectations... Expectations of operations, not of performance, is what I mean.

FYI, I have a newish SDS1104X-E. I also just bought a SDP3303X-E, at the same time as the multimeter. So, I don't have "buyer's-remorse," but I might have "new-baby jitters." That and a lack of knowledge. Any tips would be appreciated.

EDIT: Well, now it is climbing again. Presently oscillating around 98. 3423 ohms... I am going to leave it running and see what happens...

EDIT: Now at 98.3460. This is sitting on my properly grounded, professional (not Chinese cheapee) ESD pad. Could that be part of the problem? It never has been a problem before, but this multimeter is capable of such higher accuracy... I will separate it from the pad and see what happens... If you think it could be an issue, what kind of test could I do?

[Performa01]

The 24 hour tolerance for SDM3065X resistor measurement in the 200 Ohms range is +/- (30ppm of the value + 31ppm of the range).
For zero Ohm measurement (leads shorted) this would be +/- 6.2 mOhm => +/- 62 counts.

This specification is only valid after 90 minutes of warming up and the ambient temperature must be stable to +/- 1°C.

This explains, why you cannot get a perfect null with shorted leads. Sounds like you are within 0~15ppm (0~30 counts) offset error after 20-30 minutes warm-up time, which would already be well within the specified tolerance of +/- 62 counts. After 90 minutes I'd expect an even better (and more stable) result.

For the actual resistor measurement, the much more important question is what kind of resistor are you trying to measure?

Since your measurement is some 1.7% off, it doesn't look like a precision resistor - in fact it seems to be not even a general purpose 1% metal film type, which would already have a temperature coefficient of 50~100 ppm/K.

Resistor measurements with ppm stability require low noise, low temperature coefficient precision resistors (e.g. Vishay metal foil types) and an initial warm-up time of 90 minutes plus another few minutes for every new resistor. For instance, the leads of the resistor must be the exact same temperature as the probe clips and fractures of a Kelvin might matter, when you're looking for accurate results.

[jemangedeslolos]

Hello,

As Performa01 said, I think you are experimenting temperature coefficient property.
I bought a SDM3065X few days ago and after a warm up time around 30mn, I have a reading between 100.0636 and 100.0639 with a cms 0.1% 25ppm resistor ( https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/Panasonic/ERA-6AEB105V?qs=%2Fha2pyFadugMccic%2FTHB4pMf7hL3Igmf7ZX%252BhnxthzWFLxuTomEvlQ%3D%3D )

I don't have my Brymen 867s next to me but you will have 1 digit missing so It's obvious that you will have more stable readings.

[t1d]

@ Performa01 and jemangedeslolos,,, Thank you, both, for your time, effort and expertise to straighten me out!

Normal temperature variations... I feel much better, knowing that. I must actually have new baby jitters... And, a lack of knowledge and experience. But, those will come with time.

As for the resistor value... I was working backwards on the resistor measurement. Meaning that I needed to know the precise value of that particular resistor, as opposed to having to have a resistor that had a particular precise value. For the formula I was working with, I could adjust other variables, if the resistor value was known. I hope that makes sense.

If I understand correctly, I need to turn on all three pieces of my new equipment and just let them run for some number of days, or weeks. Do I need to put them on any particular settings, or put them under a load, etc?

I appreciate your help.

[orzel]

Hello,

My SDG 1032X is one year old, and I tried updating it today. The previous versions was 1.01.01.30R1, and i took the last firmware on siglent site, which is 1.01.01.33R1B5. The release note explicitely says that update from 30R1 to this version was tested. It went as usual (i did plenty of such updates, siglent or non-siglent), and the device rebooted as expected at the end. No warning, error or whatever.

On reboot, the usual Siglent logo appears, and then nothing more will ever happen. It doesn't go any further anymore. Even after a long time (5min?). Even after reboot. I tried removing all cables (usb on the back, cables connected to output). When ethernet is connected, I can't see anything from it, such as dhcp request or ping (I had ethernet working before).

Now I'm completely lost, and I don't know what to do. I never heard of such problem before, googling doesn't find any more information.  Yes, the device was 'hacked', but nobody has ever reported that it was a problem, quite the opposite. The firmware I installed is not that recent (released in august, 4 months ago).

Any hint on what I could do ? try ? I use it almost daily and I can't offer to buy another one.

[tautech]

Hello,

My SDG 1032X is one year old, and I tried updating it today. The previous versions was 1.01.01.30R1, and i took the last firmware on siglent site, which is 1.01.01.33R1B5. The release note explicitely says that update from 30R1 to this version was tested. It went as usual (i did plenty of such updates, siglent or non-siglent), and the device rebooted as expected at the end. No warning, error or whatever.

On reboot, the usual Siglent logo appears, and then nothing more will ever happen. It doesn't go any further anymore. Even after a long time (5min?). Even after reboot. I tried removing all cables (usb on the back, cables connected to output). When ethernet is connected, I can't see anything from it, such as dhcp request or ping (I had ethernet working before).

Now I'm completely lost, and I don't know what to do. I never heard of such problem before, googling doesn't find any more information.  Yes, the device was 'hacked', but nobody has ever reported that it was a problem, quite the opposite. The firmware I installed is not that recent (released in august, 4 months ago).

Any hint on what I could do ? try ? I use it almost daily and I can't offer to buy another one.

Oh dear, never seen a SDG1kX fail to boot ! 

However I do have the USB recovery package for them as part of my distributor tool kit.
Please PM me your email and I'll send the 18 MB package to you.
Instructions for use are included and it's simple to use.

@orzel
PM received and recovery package sent.

[orzel]

Please PM me your email and I'll send the 18 MB package to you.

I manage to 'save' the device with this. But it's not a piece of cake. It really seemed simple: copy some files at the root of a usb disk, and boot the device with the key plugged in.

For the record, here's how it went:
(i almost never use USB keys, so i dont have a bunch of them)

Failure #1: using my usual usb key, the one that i've used to update almost everything here, including siglent devices such as SDS 1104x-e or SDG 1032x: nothing happened (noname, 4Gb, 'linux' partition id, vfat).
Failure #2: using another key (noname, 8G, 'w95 fat32', vfat)
Failure #3: wanting to 'start from scratch', I repartitionned/reformated a key, similar to the one used in 1 (noname, 4G, 'linux', vfat)
Failure #4,5,6: didn't take note :/ But none was 16G (doc says it's not supported). I tried some fat, fat32, ntfs. Didn't try 'exfat'.
Success : another key (noname, 4G, 'w95 fat32', vfat)

Failure means: nothing happened, even after ~5minutes, The doc says it can last ~2minutes. All keys were using 'dos' partitionning, not mpt. This has a field 'partition type', and this is what i display in 'partition id'. No idea if that's relevant or not. I could not figure out what the last one has that others dont... It's a very old key i hadn't touched for years.

On success, it was obvious right at start that something was happenning. The key led blinked (other keys didn't have leds, so can't say), the device screen blinked once or twice, and i had the GUI after only one minute.

Interesting checks right after this:
* the firmware was, as expected, back to a very old version 1.01.01.22R5
* the hack was still valid (30->60MHz), so I really doubt this was the original problem
* the 'startup times' displayed in 'system info' was reset

I finally managed to update to 1.01.01.33R1B5. Once again, the 'hack' survived. I noticed that the hardware version was changed from 02-01-00-23-00 to 02-01-00-24-00, which is .... interesting for a firmware update. I didn't notice if this was this way with 22R5, but probably not.

Anyway, thanks a lot to tautech. NZ is almost as far as possible from here (France), but I wish I had such a reseller here in Europe.

[tautech]

Please PM me your email and I'll send the 18 MB package to you.

I manage to 'save' the device with this. But it's not a piece of cake. It really seemed simple: copy some files at the root of a usb disk, and boot the device with the key plugged in.

For the record, here's how it went:
(i almost never use USB keys, so i dont have a bunch of them)

Failure #1: using my usual usb key, the one that i've used to update almost everything here, including siglent devices such as SDS 1104x-e or SDG 1032x: nothing happened (noname, 4Gb, 'linux' partition id, vfat).
Failure #2: using another key (noname, 8G, 'w95 fat32', vfat)
Failure #3: wanting to 'start from scratch', I repartitionned/reformated a key, similar to the one used in 1 (noname, 4G, 'linux', vfat)
Failure #4,5,6: didn't take note :/ But none was 16G (doc says it's not supported). I tried some fat, fat32, ntfs. Didn't try 'exfat'.
Success : another key (noname, 4G, 'w95 fat32', vfat)

Failure means: nothing happened, even after ~5minutes, The doc says it can last ~2minutes. All keys were using 'dos' partitionning, not mpt. This has a field 'partition type', and this is what i display in 'partition id'. No idea if that's relevant or not. I could not figure out what the last one has that others dont... It's a very old key i hadn't touched for years.

On success, it was obvious right at start that something was happenning. The key led blinked (other keys didn't have leds, so can't say), the device screen blinked once or twice, and i had the GUI after only one minute.

Interesting checks right after this:
* the firmware was, as expected, back to a very old version 1.01.01.22R5
* the hack was still valid (30->60MHz), so I really doubt this was the original problem
* the 'startup times' displayed in 'system info' was reset

I finally managed to update to 1.01.01.33R1B5. Once again, the 'hack' survived. I noticed that the hardware version was changed from 02-01-00-23-00 to 02-01-00-24-00, which is .... interesting for a firmware update. I didn't notice if this was this way with 22R5, but probably not.

Anyway, thanks a lot to tautech. NZ is almost as far as possible from here (France), but I wish I had such a reseller here in Europe.

Thanks for writing your adventure up.
Yes the recovery manual is deficient in that it does not specify the USB stick file format required and as a consequence of your trouble I have asked Siglent to make the necessary changes to the recovery manual so users do not need to have the trouble you have.
All my stuff is Windows based so FAT32 by default so I never see such issues and I'm sorry you had to go through this. It wasn't until I checked the recovery manual I saw it was missing some vital info to give a simple and trouble free recovery.

Anyways, you're all fixed up now. 

[Performa01]

Normal temperature variations... I feel much better, knowing that. I must actually have new baby jitters... And, a lack of knowledge and experience. But, those will come with time.

It's not only the temperature coefficient of the resistor. It's also (not only thermal) noise and drift as well as thermal EMF.

Whenever two dissimilar conductors are connected and there is a temperature gradient, a thermal EMF will develop. This can easily reach up to 100µV, equivalent to an error of 0.05% = 500ppm in the most sensitive ranges (200mV, 200 Ohm). This is why thermal equilibrium of the entire test setup is so important - and this of course also applies for low voltage measurements in the 200mV range.

In my experience, even similar looking materials, like nickel plated crocodile clips connected to the wires of a resistor, can develop significant thermal EMF.

As for the resistor value... I was working backwards on the resistor measurement. Meaning that I needed to know the precise value of that particular resistor, as opposed to having to have a resistor that had a particular precise value. For the formula I was working with, I could adjust other variables, if the resistor value was known. I hope that makes sense.

Just keep in mind that the stability of the measurement is indicative for the stability of the component. Your resistor doesn't seem to be particularly stable, nor does it have low noise and a low temperature coefficient. For example, if you can't get the measurement stable to more than 4 digits, then you know that despite adjustment and/or selection of related components the end result cannot be more stable and accurate than about 100 ppm (even if the related components were perfect).

With shorted leads and after waiting long enough until thermal equilibrium is reached (the jacks of the DMM can be quite warm, whereas the test leads might initially be cold), you get an idea of the stability of the DMM itself.
 

If I understand correctly, I need to turn on all three pieces of my new equipment and just let them run for some number of days, or weeks. Do I need to put them on any particular settings, or put them under a load, etc?

What you describe sounds rather like a "burn in". It certainly is only beneficial for precision instruments like your new 2200000 counts DMM. A well aged instrument gets better and better, so I'd suggest to leave your DMM on all the time if you actually want to use it to its full potential. After the first year, it might have drifted significantly (maybe even out of spec), so a calibration including adjustment would be advisable. In subsequent years the drift will get less and less and at some point you'll have a very stable instrument, where calibration routinely just confirms that the instrument is still well within spec.

[t1d]

Thanks, Performa01. You have given me lots of good information. Could you point me to some information on practical ways a hobbyist can take better readings, please? I would think that even a small box, to block micro-wind, might help.

[xmo]

Siglent saved me some money!

Yes, I am an acknowledged Test Equipment Addict.  I don't NEED any more instruments - but I thought - why not a nice waveform generator for Christmas?

I went to the Siglent (USA) web site, picked one out, it said it was in stock, I added to cart and proceeded to checkout.

At the top of the page it offered Paypal as a payment option - that's a good way to not fill in forms.  I clicked on that - oops - error.  Tried again - again an error message.  A site that actually takes Paypal will send you to the Paypal login and after a couple clicks there, Paypal sends you back.  Does not work at Siglent.

So, OK, give up, click on credit.  Fill out all the fields.  Submit.  Error, "You must fill in the highlighted fields"

The highlighted fields were filled in!  Filled them in again.  Submit.  Error, "You must fill in the highlighted fields"

I am only willing to try so hard to buy something I don't really need anyway.

OK, I get it .. Siglent is telling me I have too much equipment. So... thanks Siglent for stopping me in a weak moment.

[tautech]

 
Try here at one of their US partners and ask for the EEVblog member discount code:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/

[Performa01]

Thanks, Performa01. You have given me lots of good information. Could you point me to some information on practical ways a hobbyist can take better readings, please? I would think that even a small box, to block micro-wind, might help.

Sorry, I don't know any compendium about best measurement practices online, but I highly recommend the Metrology subforum here - there are lots of experienced and knowlegable folks who have certainly discussed many aspects of precision measurements. Some extreme measures are only required for single digit (and sub) ppm territory, but you get an idea...

Other than that, you can search the web for:

• low thermal EMF (test leads, fixtures, components)
• electrical shielding
• guarding (for low currents)
• application notes of manufacturers about precision components (references, resistors, relays...)
• feedthrough capacitors (for high frequency interference suppression)

All this will give you an idea about the various pitfalls in precision measurements.

Putting the test circuit into a shielded box to prevent both radiated interference signals as well as air convection together with high quality low thermal EMF shielded/guarded test leads is certainly a good start, as well as powering active circuits from a battery inside the box, if applicable.

The best way to learn is by not accepting dubious results, but researching the cause and find a way to circumvent it. This way you gain insight and experience...

Most of the time it will come down to temperature related phenomenons, like thermal EMF and temperature drift (e.g. also the self-heating of shunt resistors), even air humidity (for very low currents and ultra precise measurements), shielding and guarding.

[Siglent]

Siglent saved me some money!

Yes, I am an acknowledged Test Equipment Addict.  I don't NEED any more instruments - but I thought - why not a nice waveform generator for Christmas?

I went to the Siglent (USA) web site, picked one out, it said it was in stock, I added to cart and proceeded to checkout.

At the top of the page it offered Paypal as a payment option - that's a good way to not fill in forms.  I clicked on that - oops - error.  Tried again - again an error message.  A site that actually takes Paypal will send you to the Paypal login and after a couple clicks there, Paypal sends you back.  Does not work at Siglent.

So, OK, give up, click on credit.  Fill out all the fields.  Submit.  Error, "You must fill in the highlighted fields"

The highlighted fields were filled in!  Filled them in again.  Submit.  Error, "You must fill in the highlighted fields"

I am only willing to try so hard to buy something I don't really need anyway.

OK, I get it .. Siglent is telling me I have too much equipment. So... thanks Siglent for stopping me in a weak moment.

Jason @ SIGLENT North America here. Thank you for posting. You can also write info@siglent.com with suggestions and comments.
I just tested our webstore and did note some issues. We'll be investigating and fixing this ASAP.

[klausES]

orzel,

since I wanted to thank you for your information, but cannot send you a message on the forum
(your mailbox is full, the forum-Software will no longer send messages to you) I only have to do this this way.
Thanks, the settings for the 1032X worked. 

Regards Klaus