When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?

[DougSpindler]

The guy isn't even using any historical researched data.
Take a look at some real world data and projections.  Quite a different story.

Historical trends hold, until they don't, which inevitably happens. Physics are relatively constant by comparison ... so I'd prefer a counter-argument based on the latter.

I'm not opposed to the "technology will solve it" argument, but in that case we could really do with less climate change alarmism. We're already putting all our hopes on future tech any way, just throw something more it will have to fix on the heap.

So you do realize because of man caused climate change, (and there is no doubt there is climate change and that being caused by man ) glaciers are melting, sea levels are rising, food crops are failing, pests and insects which are normally killed by cold winters are surviving killing source of food.  In the US people in Massachusetts people who have had family houses for hundreds of years are having to move because the sea level has risen and now flooding roads and their homes.  In Florida neighborhoods are regularly flooded. 

But let's just say we take your attitude and do nothing.  Maybe you are right this is a big hoax.  But what if you are wrong and in 20 years we have massive crop failure due to man caused climate change.  Will you be one of the first people to starve to death?

[Marco]

and there is no doubt there is climate change and that being caused by man

Factually wrong

In the US people in Massachusetts people who have had family houses for hundreds of years are having to move because the sea level has risen and now flooding roads and their homes.

They could have seen that coming, sea level rise has as of yet not had much correlation with CO2 emissions. It's rising and it has been rising at a relatively steady pace for over a century regardless of emissions.

[f4eru]

Factually wrong

Wot ?
Yeah. Right.
https://xkcd.com/1732/

[nctnico]

Factually wrong

Wot ?
Yeah. Right.
https://xkcd.com/1732/

That is a nice drawing but not definitive proof. According to data from ice drillings we know that high CO2 (and methane) levels occur in short and sharp peaks. However from those ice drillings we also know that the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is currently higher than is has been for the past couple of 100,000 years or so. From the earth's perspective global warming isn't a problem. It is just inconvenient for people because some of the land will be flooded and climate changes may require adaption of lifestyle.

[Marco]

Wot ?

My response relied on English reading comprehension and common sense, what he said truly is factually wrong.

[DougSpindler]

and there is no doubt there is climate change and that being caused by man

Factually wrong

In the US people in Massachusetts people who have had family houses for hundreds of years are having to move because the sea level has risen and now flooding roads and their homes.

They could have seen that coming, sea level rise has as of yet not had much correlation with CO2 emissions. It's rising and it has been rising at a relatively steady pace for over a century regardless of emissions.

Convince me you are correct.  Please provide credible peer reviewed studies to support your claim.

How can one see sea rise change when the house was built several 100 years ago?

Possibly you have not seen the credible peer reviewed study which found a direct correlation with climate change and man's activity.  The research was funded by the Koch Brothers.  This study has been peer reviewed by thousands of scientists who doubted climate change much like you.  Upon reviewing the data, the research methodology, they could they could not find any issues.  In fact, the research was so well done they were convinced that not only climate change is occurring, but there is a direct relationship between man’s activities and climate change. 

The Koch Brothers found it hard to believe, but even they are no convinced that climate change is occurring, and that man’s activities are the cause.  But that’s still not stopping them for being in the petroleum business or creating propaganda for people to read so they can continue in making a profit.  Appears they propaganda is still working.

Please don’t share any non-peer reviewed article as we know they propaganda from the Koch Brothers and have been intentionally made to deceive people and confuse people about climate change.  (Something I’m sure you would not fall for.) 

[Marco]

Convince me you are correct.  Please provide credible peer reviewed studies to support your claim.

Boston tidal gauge.

How can one see sea rise change when the house was built several 100 years ago?

At some point some grand pa should observe the fact that the beach is getting closer each year, because it's been happening for a long long time.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

+1 Marco. And science is not about consensus, in other words: 1000 scientists may agree and that proves... nothing, nada, niente, cero. It only takes one other lonely scientist to prove them all wrong. It has happened before... and more than once.

[boffin]

Guys, you realize that Doug is just trolling you all?   Every factual statement that's been said (with backup info) he just chants "Fake News" or "Go Nuclear".

In the meantime I'll drive my electric car, which is charged with (almost entirely) hydroelectric power.

[DougSpindler]

Convince me you are correct.  Please provide credible peer reviewed studies to support your claim.

Boston tidal gauge.

How can one see sea rise change when the house was built several 100 years ago?

At some point some grand pa should observe the fact that the beach is getting closer each year, because it's been happening for a long long time.

The data you posted is what convinced some many climate change deniers that climate change is occurring, but you left out the other one which so clearly shows the correlation between man’s activities and climate change.  I thought you were going provide evidence of man not causing climate change. 

Where's the data to show man caused climate change isn't occuring?

[ahbushnell]

Guys, you realize that Doug is just trolling you all?   Every factual statement that's been said (with backup info) he just chants "Fake News" or "Go Nuclear".

In the meantime I'll drive my electric car, which is charged with (almost entirely) hydroelectric power.

Are you trolling with hydro and he with nuclear?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[DougSpindler]

Guys, you realize that Doug is just trolling you all?   Every factual statement that's been said (with backup info) he just chants "Fake News" or "Go Nuclear".

In the meantime I'll drive my electric car, which is charged with (almost entirely) hydroelectric power.

Are you trolling with hydro and he with nuclear?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

I think he is.
But the guy is mixing up nuclear with Nex Gen Nuclear.  Too entirely different things.

[boffin]

Are you trolling with hydro

No, stating facts. 


ref: https://www.neb-one.gc.ca/nrg/sttstc/lctrct/rprt/2016cndrnwblpwr/prvnc/bc-eng.html

And remember, just because you may not like a fact, it doesn't make it 'fake news'.

[DougSpindler]

Are you trolling with hydro

No, stating facts. 


ref: https://www.neb-one.gc.ca/nrg/sttstc/lctrct/rprt/2016cndrnwblpwr/prvnc/bc-eng.html

And remember, just because you may not like a fact, it doesn't make it 'fake news'.

Is that for the world?

[Fungus]

and there is no doubt there is climate change and that being caused by man

Factually wrong

Wot ?
Yeah. Right.
https://xkcd.com/1732/

I think he means it's 'wrong' in the most mathematical sense, ie. even if there's only 0.0000000001 of a doubt then that's technically not "no doubt".

At least I hope that's what he means.

[Fungus]

For some people, the cost of insulating a home is far more expensive than the cost of the electricity.  That's the case for me here in California.

But what price Planet Earth? 

Just because something is cheap, available and you can do it, doesn't make it OK.

eg. Plastic containers for single-use items.

I would suggest you watch this video to understand energy usage in the world, past, present and future.

I agree with it 100%. This is why I'm in the "tech will save the world" camp.

My argument would include things like "If only the USA would invest in energy instead of military for a couple of years..."

(usually followed by something like "...Americans wouldn't need their military if the controlled the energy production of the world." - see Asimov's "Foundation" books for details. No politician would risk turning off the washing machines of the world.)

[DougSpindler]

For some people, the cost of insulating a home is far more expensive than the cost of the electricity.  That's the case for me here in California.

But what price Planet Earth? 

Just because something is cheap, available and you can do it, doesn't make it OK.

eg. Plastic containers for single-use items.

Or the bunring of Coal...  The burning of coal has released so much mercury into our enviroment and ocens we can't eat the fish.  And the burning of colar releases tons of radioactive isotopes into our atmosphere every year. 

And now becase of man caused climate chnage the permafrost is melting which is releasing a large amount of mercury. 

[DougSpindler]

and there is no doubt there is climate change and that being caused by man

Factually wrong

Wot ?
Yeah. Right.
https://xkcd.com/1732/

I think he means it's 'wrong' in the most mathematical sense, ie. even if there's only 0.0000000001 of a doubt then that's technically not "no doubt".

At least I hope that's what he means.

But there is no doubt about man cuased climate change unless you beleive the propoganda being created by the Koch Brothers.  As was previoulsy posted the graph matches shows the climate chnages is releated to man's activities.

[Fungus]

Or the bunring of Coal...  The burning of coal has released so much mercury into our enviroment and ocens we can't eat the fish.  And the burning of colar releases tons of radioactive isotopes into our atmosphere every year. 

Yep. This alone should be enough reason to stop using coal.

Unfortunately the climate denial movement has found what to focus on and that never gets mentioned in mainstream thinking.

But there is no doubt about man cuased climate change unless you beleive the propoganda being created by the Koch Brothers.  As was previoulsy posted the graph matches shows the climate chnages is releated to man's activities.

Also this:  https://www.google.com/search?q=climate+change+denial+funding

Bottom line: Anybody who uses the "it hasn't been proved!" argument is falling for the exact same system as the "smoking hasn't been proved to cause cancer" system. There's a whole bunch of people out there working to seed that argument, put articles on the Internet, etc.

To any intelligent person they sound like the "evolution is only a theory" crowd, ie. like idiots.

[Kjelt]

The question remains what can we do about it?
Are you willing to no longer use any form of fossil fuel?
Are you willing to stop using half of your electric equipment?
Are you willing to stop eating more than 25g of meat a day?

The only hope we have is to soon find a clean form of energy that can be used everywhere on the planet.

[Fungus]

The question remains what can we do about it?

Realistically? As a man in the street? Not much. 

You can try to use less at a personal level but at best it will only make the planet last 5-10% longer - that's not a win.

Any change has to come from above (laws). Good luck with that, the people have spoken and they want Trump to lead them and put creationists in charge of education.

The planet's only real chance is technology. Underfunded, undervalued, lobbied against, technology.

My prediction: The exact same nerdy scientists who are currently "wrong" about climate change will be the ones called to fix the planet (via. geoengineering) when warming gets too bad to be denied by the politicians.

[NiHaoMike]

Cutting down on direct use of fossil fuels is easy at an individual level. All of the electricity I use is generated by some renewable source, most of it off site wind but I also have solar power right at home. I drive a hybrid so I'm already doing better than average, planning to upgrade to a plug in hybrid or even all electric. (They really should require all new cars to get at least 35 MPG highway, which is easily achieved without even resorting to hybrid technology.)

Cut down on meat and/or pick a more sustainable diet? That's an easy first step which also brings health benefits. Basically no up front investment and with smart choices, actually cheaper than the typical American diet.

We should be planting more trees to offset CO2 emissions because it's easy, but that does nothing for all the other downsides of fossil fuels.

[Fungus]

Cutting down on direct use of fossil fuels is easy at an individual level.

True, but it's just a drop in the ocean as a percentage of world usage.

(and at least half the population will just say, "that leaves more for me!!")

[Kjelt]

That is the biggest problem, getting used to more/plenty is easy.
Cutting back and getting used to less/shortage is hard.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Just enjoy all the goodness of fossil fuels while they last.