Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers

[tomud]

@John317

In fact, the firmware should not replace these files. These are individual calibration files designed for a specific device.
It is possible that Siglent currently performs calibrations at an earlier stage of production, before the electronics are dedicated to a specific model (SAA or SVA). My SAA did not have these files and I uploaded them so that it would not display errors in the log about the lack of calibration files. If the device has these files, do not replace them, especially if you do not know how exactly they got there.

However, when it comes to updates, since the crossflash performance in June 2020, I have easily uploaded all firmware versions that have been released since then for SVA1000X.
Currently, I have the latest V3.2.2.5.1R1 software installed and it works without any problems

[John317]

@tomud

This is purely educational, but an interesting observation about my calibration files.

You are correct the crossflash did not generate the files. I did an entire filesystem list of files and included a MD5hash before I ran the crossflash upgrade. I also tar the filesystem. Looking at these backups, the calibration files existed before I did the crossflash.

Looking back farther, when I got my unit about 2 months ago, those calibration files were not on the filesystem (I have taken many backups pre and post all my official SSA upgrades). It looks like they showed up about the time when I upgraded to SAA version 3.2.2.5.0. Note, at this time I was running "PRO" mode on and off by renaming the nsp_data_b1 file when I needed those features, but when I did all my upgrades I would put that file back in so it would not cause any challenges to an upgrade. In summary, I did not upgrade in "PRO" mode.

I agree that the ones on my system should stay and not be replaced by the shared ones on the forum. Again, only an interesting finding.

Thanks again for the help and guidance.

[Bad_Driver]

Very interesting development and thanks to all brave volunteers!

I'm not that Linux-guy that's why this questions for clarification of the process:

#1 I have a cross flashed SVA in factory mode.
#2 I restore my serial number with: SCPI :SRLN <serial_num> (starting with SSA...) - right?
#3 I'm loosing all option since the SVA is no longer in factory mode
#3 I use the provided python script and use the generated code for "ALL".
#4 Now I have a licensed SVA1032

Can someone of the wise guys help us others and confirm or correct the described steps?
Thanks in advance!

And I can also confirm that the calibration files still exists in my SSA-backups.

[tomud]

@Bad_Driver

Yes, this method seems correct. Personally, I have never put the device into factory mode.

After uploading the software from SVA1000X (previously changing the device ID to SVA1032X) the options were blocked and instead of putting the device into the factory mode, I entered the code generated for the options "ALL" and Model "SVA1000X". So restoring the serial number should bring the device to the state I had after the SVA1032X cross flash...

Here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/msg3090863/#msg3090863) I gave pictures of what it looked like in System Info after entering the code.

[John317]

The path I went:

• Make detailed backups using cp, ls, tar, and md5sum commands (cp commands are on these forums)
• SSA3021X Plus with V3.2.2.5.1R1 Installed - No modifications (Yes a bit risky downgrading from .1R1 to .0, but it did work for me. YMMV)
• Modified SVA1000X_V3.2.2.5.0.ADS Using tv84s method https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hack-of-sigllent-spectrum-analyzer-ssa3021x/msg4249003/#msg4249003
• "Upgraded" SSA to SVA using modified file
• Generated 3032 and ALL Options using script https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/msg4355635/#msg4355635
• Edit file for Model number using tomud direction https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/msg4355749/#msg4355749
• Verify calibration files exist https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sva1015x-1-5ghz-spectrum-vector-network-analyzer-(coming)/msg3707803/#msg3707803

[Bad_Driver]

Success!

It works as described above.

#1 restore serial number with SCPI :SRLN <serial_num> (starting with SSA...)
#2 reboot - all licenses are gone
#3 use python script (uncomment 'SVA1000X') but be aware to use HOSTID - not serial number
#4 enter generated code for "ALL" - system reboots
#5 voila! it' finished - a full working SVA

Thanks to all contributors!
(backups still made, calibration files exist)

[tomud]

@Bad_Driver

Cool 

So the way to go from the factory mode has been checked and you can see that it works correctly.

[Bad_Driver]

I did a quick check with 1-Port-calibration. But only a quick check
Seems that the factory mode restrictions are now solved. 

TV84 listed the differences here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sva1015x-1-5ghz-spectrum-vector-network-analyzer-(coming)/msg3795536/?topicseen#msg3795536

[RobbiTobi]

Hi Guys,

is there anybody who could explain to me how to save decoded data (not pictures) to a file in Modulation Analyzer mode?
Furthermore, is there any possibility to add CUSTOM formats to the list of default items (under CUSTOM menu)?

  , any suggestion always welcome ...

Many thanks!

[DL4JY]

Hello out there,
I wanted to analyse small band Frequency modulation - 144 MHz FM .
But the lowest deviation I can adjust in the analog demod mode is 60khz - which is a bit (much) too much. Any idea how to accomplish lower bandwidth? Has somebody raised this issue before - is Siglent planning to change their firmware.

so long

[RoV]

I wanted to analyse small band Frequency modulation - 144 MHz FM .
But the lowest deviation I can adjust in the analog demod mode is 60khz - which is a bit (much) too much. Any idea how to accomplish lower bandwidth? Has somebody raised this issue before - is Siglent planning to change their firmware.

With SSA3021X+ upgraded to SVA1032 I can demodulate correctly, I have tried with my Marconi 2019A. The optimal deviation depends on analyzer SPAN selection:
- for SPAN 1 MHz or less, the analyzer works in FFT mode and the max deviation without significant audio distortion is 10 kHz (with 1 kHz audio tone). 5 kHz deviation is demodulated wonderfully using 100 kHz to 1 MHz SPAN
- with SPAN 2 MHz the max deviation without significant audio distortion is 20 kHz (with 1 kHz tone).
- with SPAN 10 MHz even 75 kHz deviation is demodulated correctly. I could receive broadcast emissions in the 87-108 MHz band.

The above is true for the DEMOD menu of the spectrum analyzer. If, instead, I run the "modulation analyzer" mode, I can take measurements on all above configurations with the same SPAN limitations, but there's no audio option.

[DL4JY]

Roberto,
I think you are right, I checked this some time ago and re-checked not very sorrowly with the latest firmware.
You have to manually adjust the bandwidth to 60 khz (which is think is a bit coarse for small band FM, but works indeed).
Maybe I should have used a proper test setup and not a mike only. Which works perfectly for R&S and Motorala FM analysers.
With the pluto SDR I can confirm, small band FM-Analysis works.

thanks

Juergen

[tomud]

I can also confirm that you can easily measure narrow and wide FM in the 2m band. I tested and it's ok

The photo shows the measurements of the transmitter for the stratospheric balloon that I was building. It broadcasts SSTV from camera and APRS on 2m band.

The only thing I miss is the option to take a pause so that you can stop the measurement and take a screenshot.

[cubitus]

Hello to all
I have a SAA 3021+ in factory mode with all the options
I still don't understand what is different with the SVA1032? What do we have more or less?

Concerning the demodulation menu:
I have the impression that it is completely outdated since it allows to visualize digital modulations that we rarely find now like the GSM 2G.
If you want to try to see a 4G modulation or TV, I have the impression that it is not possible or I am doing it wrong
can you see a TV demodulation?

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[Bicurico]

Sadly, I only own the SSA3000X, so I cannot try for myself.

Question 1: The SVA1000 includes a Vector Network Analyser (VNA). This option is not available on the SSA3000X-Plus. This is why many people carry out the crossgrade: They want to have the VNA functionlity. This proceedure can be done nowadays with help of the recently made keygen script (bad move in my opinion), so that the serial number is retained. This will avoid some strange things happening, that others reported (VNA mode not keeping/using the calibration, if I remember correctly). The short version is: you download tv84's special FW that flashes the SVA FW with the ID of the SSA-Plus-FW. Then you upgrade to the latest SVA FW and finally you use the keygen to generate the keys that enable everything ("ALL").

Question 2: You seem to be feeding a DVB-C transponder, judging from the frequency you are using. If so, the modulation is not QSPK but rather QAM16/32/64/128/256. I don't know if this is supported by the SSA-P/SVA. If you are just feeding a DVB-T transponder, then the modulation is COFDM-QPSK. Anyway, don't expect a window with MPEG2/MPEG4 image popping up! You might see some ASCII codes representing text of the EPG, Teletext or NIT. If you want to really demodulate TV broadcasts, then you need a TV/CATV/SAT fieldmeter or analyser. If you visit my blog you will find post about these kind of devices. Also, I am not sure if you can, with an SSA-P/SVA capture the demodulated stream on a PC for further analysis. I doubt you can do that, but if you can, try to open that stream in TSReader or VLC.

Regards,
Vitor

[cubitus]

The question is still asked, as you can see with the factory mode, I have the VNA vector network analyzer


For the demodulation you are indeed right, it is QAM 64 for TNT in France.
I have the impression that the maximum rate is 2.5 Ms/s is largely insufficient to decode the video stream ☹
I don't expect to have a picture, but simply a decoding...


I succeeded to do it on 2G GSM but which is slightly obsolete.

[Bicurico]

Factory mode probably enables everything on shared SSA+/SVA platform.

Having the SVA FW flashed might give you extra calibration files or so. But I really don't know.

Regarding demodulation, I don't now, either. Perhaps Tautech can tell the maximum supported bandwidth.

Regards,
Vitor

[RobbiTobi]

I was struggling with the same issue.
I am sorry to tell you that BW is limited to <10MHz in MA mode for the SVA/SSA3000X+
So, modern digital communication modulation with 20-80MHz BW is way out of reach for this unit
Furthermore, you even cannot store any decoded data stream into a file for post analysis.
It is more for playing around with HAM communication and looking at GSM/2G modulation. 

[cubitus]

Ok thanks for the confirmation.
I'm a little disappointed 
the demodulation function is a joke

[RoV]

I am sorry to tell you that BW is limited to <10MHz in MA mode for the SVA/SSA3000X+
So, modern digital communication modulation with 20-80MHz BW is way out of reach for this unit

This is an hardware limitation due to the max IF bandwidth. You can pass to 40 MHz with the SSA3000X-R series, which costs much more. We have to accept having limits for a low-budget instrument.

Furthermore, you even cannot store any decoded data stream into a file for post analysis.

This is something they could easily add and I would also appreciate a lot. I would also like the possibility of saving a short IF sequence in zero-span mode: in practice use the unit as a wideband receiver in time domain.

[tomud]

the demodulation function is a joke

Furthermore, you even cannot store any decoded data stream into a file for post analysis.
It is more for playing around with HAM communication and looking at GSM/2G modulation. 

you probably confuse the modulation analysis function with modulation decoding (demodulation).

In SSA you have modulation analysis and this feature has nothing to do with decoding. It is used for something else - for example, you can set up the RF amplifier so that it does not introduce nonlinear distortions affecting the modulations, etc.

For example, I suggest watching this video in which such an example of digital modulation analysis is discussed - and watching how the distorted RF amplifier behaves.

"TSP #159 - Siglent SVA1032X 3.2GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer Review, Teardown & Experiments" - The Signal Path (from the time of 44:20)

https://youtu.be/ToVJTKCyIU8?t=2660

In general, I recommend this channel on YT, you can learn a lot of interesting things about measurements and learn about the equipment - in a pleasant form (without having to go into the literature - I know that reading books is a problem for many today)


The defined "ready-made modulations" (GSM/2G etc.) are only a help, so that you do not have to do it manually by setting.

If you want to analyze some faster modulations, you should choose RealTime spectrum analyzer (for example SSA3032X-R). Alternatively, you can buy professional equipment (e.g. some communication analyzer from R&S). What you expect is a specialized communication analyzer, not a universal spectrum analyzer (where such options are only often a limited addition).

If you want to analyze TV, you can use devices such as the R&S ETL TV analyzer or the compact R&S ETC TV analyzer.

https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/pl/products/test-i-pomiaru/analizatory-transmycji/rs-etl-tv-analyzer_63493-9255.html

https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/pl/products/test-i-pomiaru/analizatory-transmycji/rs-etc-compact-tv-analyzer_63493-12060.html

There are also specialized analyzers to work in GSM/UMTS/ LTE networks. Unfortunately, it is not the case that when you buy one of the cheaper universal spectrum analyzers on the market, you get the possibilities of specialized communication analyzers. It's a bit like after buying a Victorinox pocket knife you complain that you can't unscrew the wheel on a truck with it.


So I suggest that you first read a little bit about analyzers, their uses, etc, before you start determining what's wrong and what's right. Unfortunately, the lack of knowledge later causes such disappointments.


I also do not recommend using the factory mode. This mode does not guarantee that the spectrum analyzer is fully operational. It is known that there are some bugs with VNA. However, no one knows 100% if similar problems occur in other functions of the spectrum analyzer. Especially that now the publicly available method allows you to expand the capabilities of the device - without having to turn on the factory mode.

[cubitus]

You are absolutely right!
I am a beginner, this is my first analyzer, it is for hobby use, there is no way I will invest in expensive professional equipment.
I will be satisfied with this equipment which is exceptional for the price.
Thank you for your clarifications 

[tomud]

You are absolutely right!
I am a beginner, this is my first analyzer, it is for hobby use, there is no way I will invest in expensive professional equipment.
I will be satisfied with this equipment which is exceptional for the price.
Thank you for your clarifications 

No problem

I will add that in the case of UMTS/LTE it is even more complicated. There are a lot of modulations to that, others in the uplink and downlink that are switched etc. So analyzing them on a typical spectrum analyzer is not easy. Therefore, specialized devices designed for such purposes are used for analysis / decoding.

Example for UMTS (as you can see, you can analyze UMTS-TDD version 1.28 Msps on SAA/SVA) - see screenshot in attachment. It should also allow you to see LTE Cat M1, NB-IoT (LTE Cat NB1 & LTE Cat NB2)

I Example of how the network works in the case of LTE:

Before the network activates 256QAM in DL, the UE uses one of the modulation out of QPSK, 16QAM and 64QAM. After the network activates 256QAM via RRC Connection Reconfiguration, the UE switches to 256QAM as it is the best one to be used that will increase the performance. Higher order modulation schemes can typically only be used when the RF conditions are ideal. Even after activating 256QAM in DL the UE might switch to QPSK, 16QAM or 64QAM

For the inquisitive, read the system specification available at https://www.3gpp.org/

The funniest thing is that the GSM 2G standard will not disappear so quickly, probably sooner UMTS 3G will be withdrawn in favor of 4G/5G networks, etc.
There are too many telemetry devices in the 2G network, alarms in shops and homes, etc. - users would not be satisfied with the need to replace these devices...

[RobbiTobi]

the demodulation function is a joke

Furthermore, you even cannot store any decoded data stream into a file for post analysis.
It is more for playing around with HAM communication and looking at GSM/2G modulation. 

you probably confuse the modulation analysis function with modulation decoding (demodulation).

In SSA you have modulation analysis and this feature has nothing to do with decoding. It is used for something else - for example, you can set up the RF amplifier so that it does not introduce nonlinear distortions affecting the modulations, etc.

For example, I suggest watching this video in which such an example of digital modulation analysis is discussed - and watching how the distorted RF amplifier behaves.

"TSP #159 - Siglent SVA1032X 3.2GHz Spectrum & Vector Network Analyzer Review, Teardown & Experiments" - The Signal Path (from the time of 44:20)

https://youtu.be/ToVJTKCyIU8?t=2660

In general, I recommend this channel on YT, you can learn a lot of interesting things about measurements and learn about the equipment - in a pleasant form (without having to go into the literature - I know that reading books is a problem for many today)


The defined "ready-made modulations" (GSM/2G etc.) are only a help, so that you do not have to do it manually by setting.

If you want to analyze some faster modulations, you should choose RealTime spectrum analyzer (for example SSA3032X-R). Alternatively, you can buy professional equipment (e.g. some communication analyzer from R&S). What you expect is a specialized communication analyzer, not a universal spectrum analyzer (where such options are only often a limited addition).

If you want to analyze TV, you can use devices such as the R&S ETL TV analyzer or the compact R&S ETC TV analyzer.

https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/pl/products/test-i-pomiaru/analizatory-transmycji/rs-etl-tv-analyzer_63493-9255.html

https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/pl/products/test-i-pomiaru/analizatory-transmycji/rs-etc-compact-tv-analyzer_63493-12060.html

There are also specialized analyzers to work in GSM/UMTS/ LTE networks. Unfortunately, it is not the case that when you buy one of the cheaper universal spectrum analyzers on the market, you get the possibilities of specialized communication analyzers. It's a bit like after buying a Victorinox pocket knife you complain that you can't unscrew the wheel on a truck with it.


So I suggest that you first read a little bit about analyzers, their uses, etc, before you start determining what's wrong and what's right. Unfortunately, the lack of knowledge later causes such disappointments.


I also do not recommend using the factory mode. This mode does not guarantee that the spectrum analyzer is fully operational. It is known that there are some bugs with VNA. However, no one knows 100% if similar problems occur in other functions of the spectrum analyzer. Especially that now the publicly available method allows you to expand the capabilities of the device - without having to turn on the factory mode.

Demodulation and decoding is part of digital modulation analysis.
I think, there is no confusion... and nobody judges here if something is wrong or right... 
Anyway, the statistic Trace with decoding samples in MA mode is somewhat useless, if no recording and saving is available.
And everybody likes the "pay one get three", right? 

[tomud]

Demodulation and decoding is part of digital modulation analysis.
I think, there is no confusion... and nobody judges here if something is wrong or right... 
Anyway, the statistic Trace with decoding samples in MA mode is somewhat useless, if no recording and saving is available.
And everybody likes the "pay one get three", right? 

Nonsense, show a universal spectrum analyzer even much more expensive which has such a recording option...

In SSA+/SVA you have all the modulation information you need and the filters you need for analysis. One disadvantage is the high CPU load and the GUI response slower with a larger sample buffer - as shown in the video.
You just need to know how to use it - really no decoded data analysis is needed for modulation analysis (these are useful for communication protocol analysis etc.).

The limitation is the number of symbols per second which results from the fact that it is not an RT spectrum analyzer (therefore it has limited bandwidth). Even if it had more bandwidth, you still have a problem with timeslots used on e.g. cellular networks, so this decoded data would be useless. On the other hand, I have shown that the SSA+/SVA  can modulation analyze both one UMTS variant and three LTE variants.

If you want to decode data cheaply, I suggest you buy some SDR like USRP. I use my own USRP to decode data on all types of cellular networks. However, the USRP, due to its inferior RF path, is less suitable for modulation analysis.

For consolation, I will add that in the equipment (R&S FSWP) in the pictures (photos of measurements of the amateur DMR repeater made last year) I also do not have such an option (Capability to record decoded data)