REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol

[marmad]

Rigol are supposed to be getting me one of those, looks interesting.
They should most certainly get you one too!

I agree on both points!   Seriously though, it does look interesting - a little like a response by them to the educational options offered by the Agilent X2000/3000 (which I always thought were pretty cool).

[Hydrawerk]

Not sure if Rigol can be used by students at school 8 hours a day for say 10 years? Rigol is better for hobbyists who want a bang per buck.

[grego]

I'm not sure if the DS6000 Demo Board has been mentioned before on EEVBlog or not (a quick search didn't turn up anything), but I found it at Batronix while searching for any possible new UltraVision products - and I hadn't seen it before and thought it was kind of interesting. It lists at €163 / $225 (excl.), and I've attached the user guide below.

"This Demo board is used to illustrate the basic functions of the oscilloscope. It is powered through USB port and can output 25 kinds of signals for the illustration of oscilloscope functions, i.e. sine, video (PAL/NTSC), AM Modulation, Sweeps, many digital signals and lots more. Delivery including Demo Board, USB Cable, CD with manual."

It's got the Instek one beat - Instek demo board only does 10 analog and 5 digital/LA functions for $205 list (so probably about $185 discounted).

I might have to get me one of these to play around with.

[Galaxyrise]

I just took the sample points image into Photoshop and connected the first few segments. I don't really think you could mistake the difference

Obviously not those sample points. I didn't have access to them at first, and even now I have no reason to think they match exactly with the vector capture. The trigger setting is different, and dots/vectors trigger a little differently.

Compare the peak from your interpolated capture with one that has plenty of data and see how much rounder the correct curve is! It wasn't until I tried it that I could see how it didn't work out, but it's really not far off.  I can draw lines that only differ significantly at the very top of the peak.  If I then chop off the pointy bit, I get something very similar to your capture (effectively adding just one more sample per peak.)

So maybe now you can see where I was coming from.  But either way, sorry to ask and I won't take any more of this long thread with what's way off topic.

[marmad]

Obviously not those sample points. I didn't have access to them at first, and even now I have no reason to think they match exactly with the vector capture. The trigger setting is different, and dots/vectors trigger a little differently.

The trigger setting didn't really matter - here's another image I just captured of the same 100MHz uninterpolated sine wave (sorry - slightly less amplitude due to a loose 50 Ohm terminator) with the trigger set to the previous 180mV level. It's almost the same image as before - with the dots just shifted horizontally.

Compare the peak from your interpolated capture with one that has plenty of data and see how much rounder the correct curve is!

DSOs are imperfect devices - and besides doing the sin(x)/x interpolation, the scope is doing other transformations to the sample data to get it to the display (e.g. the Rigol is mapping 200 bits of vertical ADC resolution to 400 pixels of vertical screen resolution). Perfectly correct curves may or may not be precisely what you see on the display - although with a small number of sample points, the difference between linear and sin(x)/x interpolation is pretty noticeable.

Here are two images from a LeCroy Waverunner LT 224; the first one showing sin(x)/x using 10 samples per div. Can you see what looks like short line segments at the tops and bottoms of some of the sine waves?




This image shows both linear and sin(x)/x interpolation using 5 sample points per div as in my Rigol example (although with longer cycles).

If I then chop off the pointy bit, I get something very similar to your capture (effectively adding just one more sample per peak.)

Well sure, adding sample points in convenient locations can definitely help linear interpolation look more like sin(x)/x.    But in any case, to me, the difference between your linear interpolation and the 'bad' curve is still noticeable - one looks like straight vectors and the other looks like less-than-perfect curve fitting.

But either way, sorry to ask and I won't take any more of this long thread with what's way off topic.

It wasn't any problem to ask, and I don't think it's off topic since it's about the Rigol's interpolation (and I brought it up in the first place). I was just surprised at the question - and I thought I answered good-naturedly with a bit of ribbing -  while trying to point out that, IMO, it would have been clear if linear interpolation had been used on that waveform with 5 points per div. - even though, as I mentioned in my later post, I understood your point and conceded that it would have been more clear if I had used a lower frequency sine wave in the example. 

[Wim13]

  Got my trail options back 2156 minutes, with new update installed. 

The procedure is still the same.

So you keep your trail options when upgrading, you dont lose it after the first Self-cal.
but you wil lose it on the second  self-cal and every self-cal after

( Note; some users reports other experiences about the first self-cal, maybe it is unit and configration depended. )

Small difference is that if the options are expired, you dont get this
message anymore at startup. When expired you cant find that anymore somewhere.

[marmad]

The procedure is still the same.

Good to know. Thanks for testing and sharing your findings 

[Evi]

Hello
my DS2072 saved screens on the flash as .trc files. Searching all inet I have no idea how to work with it.
Does anybody know what it is? Example in attachment.
Thanks in advance,
Vladimir

[marmad]

Hello
my DS2072 saved screens on the flash as .trc files. Searching all inet I have no idea how to work with it.
Does anybody know what it is? Example in attachment.
Thanks in advance,
Vladimir

From DS2000 User Manual:

"1. Traces
Save the waveform data in external memory in “*.trc” format. The data of all the channels turned on can be saved in the same file. At recall, the data will be displayed on the screen directly."

TRC is just an image of the waveforms on the screen - kind of like an image file (e.g. BMP) but one that can be loaded back onto the display of the DSO.

[marmad]

On arrival users want to do a self-cal, but the next time you do a self call is much much later,
then your options are long ago expired..., so it is a real solution..., good thinking from Rigol.

1) This is not a solution - it's a bug that hasn't been fixed. Self-calibration should not affect trial minutes not matter how many you do.

2) As mentioned before, I installed a brand new trial license key - did one self calibration - and the trial minutes were erased. So this does not work in every situation.

3) Until more is known about the parameters, self-calibration is still not something I would recommend new users do - unless they have a spare trial license key or until their trial minutes are gone.

[Wim13]

On arrival users want to do a self-cal, but the next time you do a self call is much much later,
then your options are long ago expired..., so it is a real solution..., good thinking from Rigol.

1) This is not a solution - it's a bug that hasn't been fixed. Self-calibration should not affect trial minutes not matter how many you do.

2) As mentioned before, I installed a brand new trial license key - did one self calibration - and the trial minutes were erased. So this does not work in every situation.

3) Until more is known about the parameters, self-calibration is still not something I would recommend new users do - unless they have a spare trial license key or until their trial minutes are gone.

A bug is when you made a mistake in your software. But i am not sure it is a mistake.

From your point of view from the software site, yes it looks like a mistake.

But what if it part of there proces. They designed it this way to come to a factory proces,
so they could simply design a cheap working proces.  It is a way of thinking, we probally dont understand.

Also they did not tell anything about it in the release note, which is very strange.

[marmad]

A bug is when you made a mistake in your software. But i am not sure it is a mistake.

Since I doubt any company wants it's customers complaining and demanding help (i.e. requiring new trial keys) I'm convinced it's a bug.

Also they did not tell anything about it in the release note, which is very strange.

Another reason to believe that any change you've noticed is just the by-product of other work they did on the firmware, and the original self-cal bug still remains.

[marmad]

Same post as at "New Rigol DS2000-S series with built-in dual-channel 25-MHz AWG". I'm double-posting this because I thought it might be interesting to people following either thread.

Using SCPI commands, I was able to play around with the features of the DS2000-S waveform generator 'inside' of the new firmware on the DS2000: setting the frequencies, voltage levels, phase, etc. of the two source channels. I also located (but haven't tested yet) the command to download waveforms to the AWG.

Of course, without any external outputs on my model (and not having it open), it was impossible to know if anything other than variable settings inside memory were being affected (probably not of course). I haven't been able to make the DSO show anything (including the new menus or screen icons associated with the AWG - as shown in the image), so I'm wondering if those things are tied to having the model number with the "-S" in non-volatile memory (just like the bandwidth, 2ns timebase, and 100MHz filter seem to be tied to the model number inside the DS2XXX).

[Wim13]

AWG functions...very nice

Why is it all in chinees..,

Maybe we have to solder in two BNC plugs on the back side.., have to look on Daves
teardown, to see if there is already something on the circuitboard..to connect to

[marmad]

Why is it all in chinees..,

Image is from Chinese document - Rigol always releases new products first in China (more 'beta' testing ) before Western markets.

Maybe we have to solder in two BNC plugs on the back side.., have to look on Daves
teardown, to see if there is already something on the circuitboard..to connect to

I was looking over Dave's photos last night; I couldn't see any obvious DDS circuitry, but there is certainly space for a daughterboard. One bad thing though - the new DS2000-S series has a button on the front panel that isn't on the normal DS2000 series.

From one of Dave's hi-res photos:




New front panel button:

[EEVblog]

I was looking over Dave's photos last night; I couldn't see any obvious DDS circuitry, but there is certainly space for a daughterboard.

My bet is it's a new board, with direct mount BNCs like the existing one.

[Wim13]

DS 2000 -S,

In the service menu, key test, there are two keys i can find on the front,
one is called  LA and the other is indeed Source

In the firmware all the commands are there for the AWG.

[marmad]

In the service menu, key test, there are two keys i can find on the front,
one is called  LA and the other is indeed Source

Interesting. It shows the button as being here on the front panel:

In the firmware all the commands are there for the AWG.

I mentioned in a previous post that I think all commands necessary for an LA are also already in the firmware.

[marmad]

I was looking through Dave's photos again from his DS2000 teardown, and I noticed in his shot of the inside of the front panel that the place where the 'Source' and 'LA' buttons will eventually go is already knocked out - only the stuck-on plastic template with the legend is covering the holes. In fact, if you rub your thumb or finger on the front panel in either of those two places, you can feel the holes behind the template. 

[Electro Fan]

Put Logic Analyzer features roughly the equivalent of the external units we have been discussing (with triggering, protocols, etc.)  in the $300-$400 range into the 2072 and you get a very popular configuration.  Just saying.

[grego]

Put Logic Analyzer features roughly the equivalent of the external units we have been discussing (with triggering, protocols, etc.)  in the $300-$400 range into the 2072 and you get a very popular configuration.  Just saying.

My guess is they will keep their decodes separate as they do already and just add the LA function as an option for ~$400-$500 USD for an 8 channel.  That would keep them in the same range with Agilent and Instek.

[Hydrawerk]

Why is there only one conductive rubber dot at the Clear and Auto button? It's not good!

[Hydrawerk]

Oh, that's crazy. http://youtu.be/BWZXGzAVkD8?t=32m19s But unfortunately there is no photo of Agilent's keyboard.

[nack]

Why is there only one conductive rubber dot at the Clear and Auto button? It's not good!

Not really.

The Run/Stop and Single button use a led indicator which has to be spaced in the center for even illumination, therefore two carbon-pads are placed alongside the led.  The Clear and Auto button are not illuminated and could utilize a single carbon-pad, and they are probably less frequently used.

[marmad]

Not only are there holes in the front panel for the two buttons, the keypad PCB is already laid out for the two additional (illuminated) buttons: