REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol

[IanJ]

I never bought the 2102 as I had priced up, I bought the 2072.......a helluva lot cheaper.

Still, there were better deals to be had - you didn't wait long enough after your original post. Something is screwy with the Forum notification system today; I'm not getting notified of posts for a LONG time.

Hi,

My supplier just called me and said 2 to 3 weeks delivery so I have the chance to cancel the order.........so do you have somewhere else I can try. I've to call them back tomorrow to let them know what I wish to do.
PS. I got offered the DS2102 at 5% less than list price to stay with them.......but that doesn't interest me.

DS2072 it has to be.

Ian.

[Harvs]

It would seem the DS2072 is actually the harder one to get.  I wonder why the dealers seem to have bet on selling the 100MHz variant?  I wonder if they are selling many 2102s?

It took me about 6-7 weeks to get one through the local dealer here.  No doubt I could have got it sooner from OS, but I didn't have to pay for postage through Emona.

[van-c]

I received a PM from this group confirming good rep of TEquipment.  The online chat girl said they expected stock in 2 weeks.  So I ordered.  Now, I go into the constantly-checking-status-of-order mode...

--Van

[Yaksaredabomb]

The online chat girl said they expected stock in 2 weeks.

I've generally had a good impression of their customer service and attitude, but bad luck with delivery timing.

My most recent order had a lead time of 5 wks, which I found out on the "order status" page a few days after placing the order.  You could say it's my fault for not asking for a quote to get stock status ahead of time, but with such a long lead time a note on the product page or at checkout would have been nice.  On top of that, I requested a quote for the same item about a week after the sale just for the heck of it, to see what timing estimate I'd get that way.  The quote said "Notes: Lead time is 2 weeks."  I called in to get to the bottom of it and found out the quote was mistaken - the leadtime was still 5 weeks (so 6 weeks from the time of my sale).

According to UPS the order left their dock just shy of 4 weeks after the sale.  That's 4 weeks late, 2 weeks early, or 1 week late depending on what version of info the customer got and depending on whether one believes month+ backordered status should be identified on the product page or at checkout (or only mentioned when the customer asks for it).

I wrote them about this in response to a "let us show you why we're better" email back on April 5th and haven't heard back, but then I viewed it more as a comment slip and wasn't necessarily expecting a response.

Everyone - even the best of companies - has issues sometimes where a series of improbable coincidences can't be avoided.  Also, I've only ordered from them twice so that's a pretty small sample size.  Many other people have had good things to say so I'd like to believe my experiences have been the exception to the rule.  When my orders did arrive, both were packaged well and the contents were in great shape and working order (and were the correct contents).  That's most important to me, so I would order from them again and give them a 3rd chance.

Even so, if it's really important your scope ships in 2 weeks I'd double-check, possibly by email or requesting a quote.  Then I'd check again 
 
 
Edit: Forgot to add my credit card was not charged until the order shipped, which was nice.

[Leon]

I never bought the 2102 as I had priced up, I bought the 2072.......a helluva lot cheaper.

Still, there were better deals to be had - you didn't wait long enough after your original post. Something is screwy with the Forum notification system today; I'm not getting notified of posts for a LONG time.

I'm also curious about the deal you're talking about. Could you PM me?

[IanJ]

Hi all,

Well I tried a few dealers and suppliers, including some mentioned in this thread and nobody has a 2072, they all say the same i.e. 2 - 3 weeks.

Appreciate all who have tried but I think I'll just stick with my own UK dealer and wait the time......:-(

Boys and their toys eh! 

Ian.

[Jean]

The difference between Men and Boys
 is the price of their Toys

 The one with the most Toys , Wins   

...or the biggest 

I have ordered mine (DS2072) from Ovio, France on Monday and got it on Thursday. The girl told me it was the last one though; 849€ VAT included. Maybe an alternative to other european shops, since they seem to be professional and reactive..

[neilhao]

Same experience, I ordered my DS2202 from Tequipment.NET, the product page did not mention about the lead time.
My order was placed on 04/13/2013, and I finally got the DSO on 05/14/2013.

By the way, according to the UPS label, the DSO was shipped from the Rigol Technologies Inc. USA, OH to me directly.

According to above experience. In future, I will order from the Rigol's official site (http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds2000/ds2202/) directly, if Tequipment.NET has no stock.


Neil

The online chat girl said they expected stock in 2 weeks.

I've generally had a good impression of their customer service and attitude, but bad luck with delivery timing.

My most recent order had a lead time of 5 wks, which I found out on the "order status" page a few days after placing the order.  You could say it's my fault for not asking for a quote to get stock status ahead of time, but with such a long lead time a note on the product page or at checkout would have been nice.  On top of that, I requested a quote for the same item about a week after the sale just for the heck of it, to see what timing estimate I'd get that way.  The quote said "Notes: Lead time is 2 weeks."  I called in to get to the bottom of it and found out the quote was mistaken - the leadtime was still 5 weeks (so 6 weeks from the time of my sale).

According to UPS the order left their dock just shy of 4 weeks after the sale.  That's 4 weeks late, 2 weeks early, or 1 week late depending on what version of info the customer got and depending on whether one believes month+ backordered status should be identified on the product page or at checkout (or only mentioned when the customer asks for it).

I wrote them about this in response to a "let us show you why we're better" email back on April 5th and haven't heard back, but then I viewed it more as a comment slip and wasn't necessarily expecting a response.

Everyone - even the best of companies - has issues sometimes where a series of improbable coincidences can't be avoided.  Also, I've only ordered from them twice so that's a pretty small sample size.  Many other people have had good things to say so I'd like to believe my experiences have been the exception to the rule.  When my orders did arrive, both were packaged well and the contents were in great shape and working order (and were the correct contents).  That's most important to me, so I would order from them again and give them a 3rd chance.

Even so, if it's really important your scope ships in 2 weeks I'd double-check, possibly by email or requesting a quote.  Then I'd check again 

[zibadun]

It's either a clever marketing strategy or Rigol severely underestimated the demand. 

Anybody tried to buy a Wee console when it first came out?

[neilhao]

I think Rigol just used lenovo's marketing strategy, they want to minimize the stock. In China, the electoral industry has unbelievable  supply chain, you can get the PCB from the factory within 12 hours, get all parts need for a product with no time (you even can get all you need within one building).  Thus, they want to build a product after receive the order which can minimize the risk.


Neil

It's either a clever marketing strategy or Rigol severely underestimated the demand. 

Anybody tried to buy a Wee console when it first came out?

[jsykes]

I have been following this thread the last few months but this is my first post so I guess I'm a newbie. During that relatively short period I have purchased a DSA815-TG, DG4162, and a DS4022 which I returned for a DS2202. I wasn't going to replace my old HP DSO but thanks to Marmad and Dave's reviews I couldn't resist and am now broke. The 4022 was a nice scope but with averaging and hi-res turned off, it had a 3mV noise level on the lowest scale (1mV/div) which was just too much for me. I am in the USA so I purchased the Analyzer and scope directly from Rigol NA. With them, shipping is not free but I felt more confident purchasing through them. Rigol NA has been very responsive and did the 4022/2202 swap no questions asked. Since Rigol did not have the DG4162 in stock and TEquipment did, I purchased the function generator from them. Shipping took a little longer but I still received the unit in about 1 week.
I did experience what I thought was a problem with the 2202. After powering it up cold with channel 1 & 2 set at max sensitivity of 500uV/div, the DC balance takes about 10 minutes of warm-up to settle. (see attached screen shots) Performing a self cal did not correct the issue. I returned it to Rigol NA and they shipped another one again, with no questions asked. Sadly it exhibits the same behavior so I can only assume they all have this issue.
I haven't seen any posts about it so has anyone else noticed this?

[jsykes]

Here are 2 more screen shots of the DC balance problem with averaging turned off.

[neilhao]

Rigol will give their Agents some discounts. This is why Tequipment.net could offer free shipping. The discounts to the Agents could even be 40% of the list price I think.
For my real experience, around 2006, I ordered a VS5062D. The list price was 10000RMB, I got it from a local agent who is my friend, finally I got the MSO for only 6000RMB with free shipping.

If you know how lenovo make the computers, you will know why everyone have to wait almost 4 weeks.  For the relative expensive product, they will just start to buy required parts after receiving your order, and then they have to assemble those parts and ship it to the Rigol in Ohio from the beijing city, China, finally the Rigol in Ohio will ship it to you. Based on the modern logistics industry and the efficient supply chain of China, they can do all above procedures within 4 weeks, this should already be a kind of miracle.

For reduce the cost and enhance the supply chain, they started to use the ADC form the MXTronics Corporation which is belong to the China Aerospace System, MXTronics participated in the Chinese  Shenzhou Spaceship Project. More important thing is, the MXTronics Corporation is also in the Beijing City, thus Rigol can expect shorter lead time to get the required ADCs than ordering them form the US Corporation.

For the cost, as what I remembered, the US gov prohibited to export the ADCs which has the sampling rate higher than 400M samples/s to China, thus Rigol had to use multi-ADCs for higher BW, and they even had to overclock the ADCs. But today, they just need one or two ADCs which can reduce the cost and the noise sufficiently.

What they want is Zero Stock. They do not expect to have any product in the warehouse, and every penny is available for investing.


Neil

According to above experience.
In future, I will order from the Rigol's official site ,
if Tequipment.NET has no stock.
Neil

All my Rigol orders with Tequipment came from Rigol in Ohio .
I did check with Rigol and it was more expensive
and I needed to pay the shipping and same delivery time.
At this time the world supply is Low,
 Why?

[XaS]

For the relative expensive product, they will just start to buy required parts after receiving your order, and then they have to assemble those parts...

...which doesn't necessarely have to be a negative thing for us too, beside you have to wait for your new toy (I know waiting isn't funny, I was able to pick mine up 6h after I placed my order 15km from my home). But this way there are few out-of-date units in stock. This way they can react fast on hardware problems and apply fixes in the production process, alongside with shipping the units with the most recent firmwares. So besides all negative effects of this policity there are also benefits for us customers.

XaS

[jsykes]

TENEYES
Thanks for the tips. For this test there was nothing connected to the inputs. I tried terminating the inputs with 50 ohms and there was no difference but I think the noise @ this 200MHz bandwidth is quite good and I am satisfied with the 2202. It was the 4022 that bothered me a bit with 3.5mV noise. The 3 division thermal drift on channel 1 is annoying but If I need to use the 500uV range I just let it warm up for 10 minutes. The trigger level doesn't seem to have any effect on the thermal drift.                                                 

[Harvs]

I did experience what I thought was a problem with the 2202. After powering it up cold with channel 1 & 2 set at max sensitivity of 500uV/div, the DC balance takes about 10 minutes of warm-up to settle. (see attached screen shots) Performing a self cal did not correct the issue. I returned it to Rigol NA and they shipped another one again, with no questions asked. Sadly it exhibits the same behavior so I can only assume they all have this issue.
I haven't seen any posts about it so has anyone else noticed this?

Yes mine does the same, at least as bad as what you've described,and strangely enough only on channel 1.  CH2 is steady from boot.  Also I needed to do a self-cal on mine right from the outset, even after warm up it was off by at least 3 div on 500uV/div.

However, no big deal.  Just let it warm up before you use that range.

[Wim13]

On power up at 500 uV:

On my 2072, ch 2 was steady, and ch1 was 1 div off after warm up. Not bad on 0.5 mV
and 1 dev noise on normal,  with terminator on.


a self-cal was done yesterday.

[IanJ]

Rigol will give their Agents some discounts. This is why Tequipment.net could offer free shipping. The discounts to the Agents could even be 40% of the list price I think.

Many years ago I was in the electronics retail trade (as a trade supplier/importer) and the markup the shops we supplied made was in the order of 60% on average.
It was a real eye opener seeing what we actually purchased the goods for.

Ian.

[marmad]

TENEYES
Thanks for the tips. For this test there was nothing connected to the inputs. I tried terminating the inputs with 50 ohms and there was no difference but I think the noise @ this 200MHz bandwidth is quite good and I am satisfied with the 2202. It was the 4022 that bothered me a bit with 3.5mV noise. The 3 division thermal drift on channel 1 is annoying but If I need to use the 500uV range I just let it warm up for 10 minutes. The trigger level doesn't seem to have any effect on the thermal drift.                                               

@jsykes: Welcome to the forum! Thanks for pointing this out (mine does the same), but I do have to wonder if it's really an issue. I was always taught to let T&M equipment warm up - granted, that was mostly in an analog era  - but it still seems to be applicable nowadays (hence the 30 minute warm-up before calibration). And since the DS2000 has the extra sensitive front-end (500uV), it perhaps makes even more sense.

[van-c]

I may have missed this from all the discussion about how self calibration clears the trial counters:  So, how does one calibrate a new scope yet preserve the counters?

--Van

[Harvs]

I may have missed this from all the discussion about how self calibration clears the trial counters:  So, how does one calibrate a new scope yet preserve the counters?

--Van

As far as I know, you don't. Nice people on this forum tell you how to get it back 

[jsykes]

@ marmad
I just wonder if the "better" brands i.e. Tek and HP exhibit thermal drift at max sensitivity settings? Maybe Dave can attest to this since he has reviewed them.
 

[marmad]

@ marmad
I just wonder if the "better" brands i.e. Tek and HP exhibit thermal drift at max sensitivity settings? Maybe Dave can attest to this since he has reviewed them.

@jsykes: I'm just not sure thermal drift is the correct description of what's happening. I always thought of thermal drift as an unintended or unplanned drift away from the normal operating parameters due to temperature. When I turn on my DSO and watch the traces, it appears as if Rigol engineers have calculated the normal operating parameters to match exactly with the stabilized operating temperature of the internal circuitry.

Again, it's no coincidence that DSO makers always want you to warm up the scope 30 minutes before doing a self-calibration (and some of them mention doing it before making delicate measurements). The specifications of the DSO are accurate only for a stabilized ambient temperature.

[Galaxyrise]

It's not just DSOs, either.  Quoted from the Agilent 34401a calibration procedure:

• Assure that the calibration ambient temperature is stable and
  between 18°C and 28°C.
• Assure ambient relative humidity is less than 80%.
• Allow a 2-hour warm-up period before verification or adjustment.

[XaS]

Hi guys!

A quick question, I hope I didn't miss it being already covered in the last 78 (!!!  ) pages. Having used my scope several times now, I still can't get how to enable or disable measurements from the left-side meu. I find it very hard to see the logic of that. Sometimes new measurements appear on the right side, sometimes it shifts the older measurements and appears somewhere between the already activated ones. Is there any way that Rigol will change that very annoiing behaviour any time soon?Thank god they listened to us about the inverted X-Y mode...

XaS