I thought everybody knew it's the smoke that kills people, not the fire.
Using a 120 V unit at 240 V is not the typical failure case, and there is no complaint about the unit blowing up.
The problem is that there are other ways a transformer can fail, even if a 120 V unit is used at 115 V, e.g. a unexpected short from repeated hot / cold cycles or a damage to the enamel from grid transients. It is these cases that can pose a safety hazard if there is no fuse at the primary of the transformer. If one sits next to it the smoke is bad enough,
but there could also be a fire hazard form the transformer and case getting too hot.
It does not look there is a reliable way for the current to be interrupted in case of an overheating transformer. One should not let the iron run unattended, but this stall happens sometimes by mistake.
Not sure what would have happened if Dave had not turned off the unit when the smoke came out, but took the camera. It is still possible they have flame retardant plastic so they can safely a few cents on the fuse.
Using a 120 V unit at 240 V is not the typical failure case, and there is no complaint about the unit blowing up.
The problem is that there are other ways a transformer can fail, even if a 120 V unit is used at 115 V, e.g. a unexpected short from repeated hot / cold cycles or a damage to the enamel from grid transients. It is these cases that can pose a safety hazard if there is no fuse at the primary of the transformer. If one sits next to it the smoke is bad enough, but there could also be a fire hazard form the transformer and case getting too hot. It does not look there is a reliable way for the current to be interrupted in case of an overheating transformer. One should not let the iron run unattended, but this stall happens sometimes by mistake.
Not sure what would have happened if Dave had not turned off the unit when the smoke came out, but took the camera. It is still possible they have flame retardant plastic so they can safely a few cents on the fuse.
What if there were some paper based schematics, electronics magazine, parts catalogue, tissue box or iso wipes nearby to fuel the barbeque?
Even though highly unlikely (...famous last words? ) I've seen transformers shoot serious sparks through equipment vents when they go south, there's a source of ignition too.
Insurance or not, the victim is screwed to replace items, some perhaps uninsured, irreplaceable, expensive, or vintage/sentimental, as well as get back in business asap
And let's not forget that burnt out magic smoke and burning premises/water combo SMELL that just keeps on keeping on 24/7 !
All because somearrogantcompanybean counting twatrefuses to install CHEAP basic safety measures,
post stone-age 'technology' that's been around since the 1800s to protect wiring, user, and manufacturers reputationsand stock market share prices
and doesn't even bother to give past and present customers a simple heads up about it, and or an offer to rectify the issue
Everyone also needs to consider our Fire Brigade/Departments sorting real danger in the community, especially in summer months,
instead of blowing their rest time and wasting resources mopping up manufacturer's cheapassery based snafus,
after taking their trusting customers cash
I thought everybody knew it's the smoke that kills people, not the fire.Cute, but irrelevant. Let's stay on subject.
We're going around in circles. The ability of transformers to limit current and fuses not always being required have been discussed multiple times in this thread.
You're the one pretending that smoke isn't a hazard.
(at least, I hope you're only pretending not to know that)
And in this case it dodn't limit the current so a fuse was necessary.
End of.
I thought everybody knew it's the smoke that kills people, not the fire.Cute, but irrelevant. Let's stay on subject.
I thought everybody knew it's the smoke that kills people, not the fire.Cute, but irrelevant. Let's stay on subject.
Actually, it's not that irrelevant in this case.
If I had switched it on and left the room then the smoke alarm would have gone off and automatically evacuated the entire building and called the fire brigade in which case two fire trucks would have turned up. That's two trucks taken away from any other potential fire.
Sure, for the dozenth time, it was my mistake, and wouldn't have happened under normal circumstances. But if it's no big deal then why do Weller have fuses on almost all of their other products which have identical functionality?
Actually, it's not that irrelevant in this case.
If I had switched it on and left the room then the smoke alarm would have gone off and automatically evacuated the entire building and called the fire brigade in which case two fire trucks would have turned up. That's two trucks taken away from any other potential fire.
Sure, for the dozenth time, it was my mistake, and wouldn't have happened under normal circumstances. But if it's no big deal then why do Weller have fuses on almost all of their other products which have identical functionality?
Actually, it's not that irrelevant in this case.
If I had switched it on and left the room then the smoke alarm would have gone off and automatically evacuated the entire building and called the fire brigade in which case two fire trucks would have turned up. That's two trucks taken away from any other potential fire.
Sure, for the dozenth time, it was my mistake, and wouldn't have happened under normal circumstances. But if it's no big deal then why do Weller have fuses on almost all of their other products which have identical functionality?As I've mentioned before, I'd love to know what went into that decision. Maybe asking Weller about it would yield some information, though considering their last formal response I'm not getting my hopes up. Without that information it's hard to know whether it's a properly researched decision and therefore engineered product, or that the penny pinchers won one round too many like some here are suggesting.
Considering it's apparently specifically the German designed stations that do have fuses, it wouldn't even surprise me if the answer is essentially "Germans will be Germans".
Oh, yes, only the Germans protect their stations with a fuse: https://www.banggood.com/FX-951-Style-230V-AU-Plug-Solder-Soldering-Iron-Station-p-932704.html?rmmds=buy&cur_warehouse=CN
Using a 120 V unit at 240 V is not the typical failure case, and there is no complaint about the unit blowing up.
The problem is that there are other ways a transformer can fail, even if a 120 V unit is used at 115 V, e.g. a unexpected short from repeated hot / cold cycles or a damage to the enamel from grid transients. It is these cases that can pose a safety hazard if there is no fuse at the primary of the transformer. If one sits next to it the smoke is bad enough, but there could also be a fire hazard form the transformer and case getting too hot. It does not look there is a reliable way for the current to be interrupted in case of an overheating transformer. One should not let the iron run unattended, but this stall happens sometimes by mistake.
Not sure what would have happened if Dave had not turned off the unit when the smoke came out, but took the camera. It is still possible they have flame retardant plastic so they can safely a few cents on the fuse.
Oh, yes, only the Germans protect their stations with a fuse: https://www.banggood.com/FX-951-Style-230V-AU-Plug-Solder-Soldering-Iron-Station-p-932704.html?rmmds=buy&cur_warehouse=CNThose are your words, not mine. Please note the context of my reply. I'm not sure I appreciate the context of replies being repeatedly changed to facilitate arguing against them.
Using a 120 V unit at 240 V is not the typical failure case, and there is no complaint about the unit blowing up.I don't know if anyone has brought this up yet so forgive me if I'm repeating something: could it be that the 120V models have to adhere to a safety standard which doesn't assume such fatal errors? The response from Weller seems to be 'the device adheres to safety regulations' (for the market it is sold in) and that is the end of the story.
why do Weller have fuses on almost all of their other products which have identical functionality?
Using a 120 V unit at 240 V is not the typical failure case, and there is no complaint about the unit blowing up.I don't know if anyone has brought this up yet so forgive me if I'm repeating something: could it be that the 120V models have to adhere to a safety standard which doesn't assume such fatal errors? The response from Weller seems to be 'the device adheres to safety regulations' (for the market it is sold in) and that is the end of the story.If that is the case then IMHO that safety standard is defective due to the significant risk of 240V being applied to a 120V appliance if it is on a multi-wire branch circuit in accordance with US NEC 210.4(B). All it takes is a high load on the other phase, and a high resistance or open neutral, which can be due to as small a defect as a loose or otherwise improperly applied wirenut.
As with companies like Weller, they sell units that are barely changing for many years, despite technology evolved a lot (and recent amazing chinese soldering stations dave reviewed prove that), so Weller still have sales just because of their past reliability and reputation.
MOV cost $0.2 in quantity, fuse was mentioned as $1. Seems Weller reputation flushed to toilet because of this $1.2 .
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Looking at IEC 61558 Transformer Safety, Part 15 on short-circuit testing and considering the WE1010 is almost twice the power 80-100VA would be a "non-inherently short-circuit proof transformer".
15.3.1 "The output terminals are short-circuited...."
15.3.2 "If protected by a fuse... the transformer is loaded for a time T and with a current equal to
k times the current marked on the transformer as the rated current of the protective fuse-
link, where k and T have the values shown in Table 4." {This is 1hr at 210% rated unless the polyfuse is easier}
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As with companies like Weller, they sell units that are barely changing for many years, despite technology evolved a lot (and recent amazing chinese soldering stations dave reviewed prove that), so Weller still have sales just because of their past reliability and reputation.
When I was young, we didn't need no "fancy" soldering sticks. Heat came in 4 models. The extreme heavy duty, the heavy duty, the medium and the last for fine 0402 work.
If you lost heat change the tank, or plug it in. If you lost a tip, just make one up out of a #00 round copper buss bar, #10 or #12 wire. She'll be good as new.