Siglent SDS2000X Plus

[tautech]

Thanks for the reply.

...
You want just simple stable triggering right ?
Hit Stop and eyeball the longest packet duration and in the Trigger menu set Holdoff to a slightly longer duration.

Yeah, that's kind of other way to get it work but I'm curious why it is not working with the zone settings method.
I wanted to know if it is (potentially) a bug, or I'm just using it wrong way.

Never tried Zones on a packet TBH as I can see unless every packet was identical stable triggering could not be maintained however if you set a zone for a particular bit and zoomed out lots for a longer record then Stopped you should be able to Search for how many of the same bit might have been triggered on.

Only time I played with Zones and needed them too to reliably trigger on a Video signal from the STB-3 test board.
Some of its signals are a darn good test of your ability to properly drive the Trigger, the most powerful tool in your scope.

[pt1elec_dev]

Actually, maybe a year ago? I reported this to the Siglent headquarter in China and got a reply that they couldn't reproduce it. I wrote back with a detailed instruction and screenshots with reference waveform file for reproduction but then... they just ignored. After number of FW updates it is still not working. I cannot know the answer! I reall want to know the answer! Am I using it wrong in a way that kinda out of zone trigger spec or etc?

If interested, would you mind testing single+zone settings with the wave ref file for the scope internal AWG?
Quite rough representation of the original signal from my MCU dev board, but it's enough for the demo.
 zone_signal.zip (43.2 kB - downloaded 31 times.)
Unzip and import resulting csv file into the scope internal AWG. AWG settings were: 100kHz freq, 2Vpp amplitude, 0v offset

[tautech]

Sorry can't as we have no stock.
The type of Zone really matters IIRC but as said, can't currently test, sorry.

[pt1elec_dev]

Totally understandable.

Anyway if anyone could try this and help me sorting this out, it would be really appreciated. Thanks guys!

[Performa01]

Sorry, cannot test anything right now, but still here's some hint on the Zone Trigger:

Zone Trigger is not actually a trigger, but an additional filter for the well known existing trigger modes. A filter that looks at the regular triggered records and neglects all those which don't meet the zone trigger criteria.

What does this mean for single shot capture? You only capture one single record and chances that this one meets the zone criteria are very slim indeed.

[pt1elec_dev]

Zone Trigger is not actually a trigger, but an additional filter for the well known existing trigger modes. A filter that looks at the regular triggered records and neglects all those which don't meet the zone trigger criteria.

What does this mean for single shot capture? You only capture one single record and chances that this one meets the zone criteria are very slim indeed.

Wow. Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense.
Still, however, single capture is expected (at leat for me) to "show" the single waveform after processing all the steps from acquiring through filtering.
I mean, is loop_until_single_successful_capture(single capture - filter) looks more natural for single mode rather than just (single capture - filter - wave "maybe" shown)?

[tautech]

Interestingly, seems the newest firmware(V1.5.2R1) also introduced a new bug! (see the screenshot and you'll find somethings missing lol)

As mentioned in reply to your PM I'm fairly sure this is a new setting for screenshots to hide menus.
IIRC you can turn Hide Menus to OFF from within the Display menu.

Someone else might like to confirm.

[Martin72]

Can look at it tomorrow on our scopes.

[tautech]

Can look at it tomorrow on our scopes.

Thanks Martin.
Currently feeling like the emperor without clothes ! 
SDS6204A out on demo, no 2kX+ or 5kX in stock so zero recent scopes to check except for the trusty little SDS1104X-E however it doesn't have the same UI or all the fruits these later models have.

In a few weeks stock will be good again unless it ends up being all presold ! 

 

[Martin72]

At work I´ve updated one 2K+, the others not so I can compare the menus old/new fw to see whats new/changing(without a notice)...
For example, with new fw probecheck is also avaible, but not mentioned (maybe it is in "Optimized UI")

Martin

[tubularnut]

The Hide Menu feature simply makes the right hand menu disappear after N seconds. Setting to Off, keeps it on screen.

A screenshot from a 'remote capture' includes the Top menu on the screenshot (first 2 images)

A screenshot (print) from the Utility Menu, has no Top menu (3rd image).  I presume this is because you need to lose the menu option itself that you used to do the print, and they simply make it all disappear?

[tautech]

Thanks tubularnut but hiding menus in screenshots is tucked away in another menu.
Real curse without a unit here to show everyone. 

It impacted on both Save/Recall saves and Print saves.....but maybe it's only in the higher end models yet. 

[tubularnut]

Thanks tubularnut but hiding menus in screenshots is tucked away in another menu.
Real curse without a unit here to show everyone. 

It impacted on both Save/Recall saves and Print saves.....but maybe it's only in the higher end models yet. 

You mean this one? Under Utility - Save/Recall

Mine was turned off (by default? I've never used it before)

[trp806mo]

Depending the frequency of the AWG (and so the time to chek the zones of trig (?)), the single trigger failed by me too. At 1Khz all is fine, at 250Khz it's no more the case.
 siglent_test_ok.7z

[pt1elec_dev]

Depending the frequency of the AWG (and so the time to chek the zones of trig (?)), the single trigger failed by me too. At 1Khz all is fine, at 250Khz it's no more the case.
(Attachment Link)

Thanks for the confirmation. Same as me. (tested at 100kHz) Zone settings are working OK with lower frequencies.

Thanks tubularnut but hiding menus in screenshots is tucked away in another menu.
Real curse without a unit here to show everyone. 

It impacted on both Save/Recall saves and Print saves.....but maybe it's only in the higher end models yet. 

Yup... Seems my entry sds2104x+ doesn't have such option as an UI menu.

Thanks tubularnut but hiding menus in screenshots is tucked away in another menu.
Real curse without a unit here to show everyone. 

It impacted on both Save/Recall saves and Print saves.....but maybe it's only in the higher end models yet. 

You mean this one? Under Utility - Save/Recall

Mine was turned off (by default? I've never used it before)

Clearly, this menu is impacting the "print button" screenshots too. Turn it on and "print from menu" then "print button" will include the menu in the screenshot. Just "turning it on, then print button" is not enough.
Sadly the option does not survive after hitting default button.

edit//
Seems the menu inclusion in save PNG menu is a part of the global settings. Turning it on then saving "To Default Key" is making it persistent.
But... this is not good. It needs dedicated option menu.

[hhappy1]

(Attachment Link)
Unzip and import resulting csv file into the scope internal AWG. AWG settings were: 100kHz freq, 2Vpp amplitude, 0v offset

I'm glad to meet a Korean.
I tried generate the attached file waveform.

I think it's because the waveform update rate is fast.

If you slow time the holdoff or use a slow waveform update rate scope, it will appear as a single waveform.

You look at a fast scope like a keysight, it's normal to look like an eye patterns.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1btd4aXcO6Wxs7neXFRpmnoKH9guG6mQX/view?usp=sharing

[pt1elec_dev]

(Attachment Link)
Unzip and import resulting csv file into the scope internal AWG. AWG settings were: 100kHz freq, 2Vpp amplitude, 0v offset

I'm glad to meet a Korean.
I tried generate the attached file waveform.

I think it's because the waveform update rate is fast.

If you slow time the holdoff or use a slow waveform update rate scope, it will appear as a single waveform.

You look at a fast scope like a keysight, it's normal to look like an eye patterns.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1btd4aXcO6Wxs7neXFRpmnoKH9guG6mQX/view?usp=sharing

Hi! Never expected to see a Korean here in this foreign nerdy(?) forum.
Just saw the video. Have you tried with zone settings on?

[seronday]

Zone Trigger Issue.

The problem that I have encountered with my SDS2104X Plus is that the Zone Triggering fails to work at certain frequencies but does trigger correctly on other frequency ranges..

For the purpose of testing the Zone Trigger operation, I have used a signal which consists of a Low amplitude pulse followed by a High amplitude pulse.
The objective is to have the oscilloscope only trigger on the Low amplitude pulse and not on both pulses.

The SDS2104X Plus is configured as follows:-

Time / Div    100us
Rising Edge Trigger
Zone trigger 1 is set as "Not Intersect" and placed above the Edge Trigger level in the area where the Higher amplitude pulse would be.

The frequency of the test signal is taken from the SDS On Screen frequency display

While testing the Zone Trigger operation, I found that the Zone trigger fails to trigger on certain frequency ranges.

An example of the test results is listed below:-

   Triggering works correctly :-    4456Hz to 4704Hz.
   Triggering Fails :-              4706Hz to 4950Hz
   Triggering works correctly :-    4952Hz to 5200Hz

   This pattern keeps repeating

Attached are two screen prints.
 One shows when the Zone Trigger is working. The other shows when the Zone Trigger has Failed.

I have found that the frequency ranges where the Zone Trigger Fails depends on the Time / Div and Memory settings.

Not having used Zone Triggering before, I am wondering if this the normal operation for Zone Triggering on other brands of DSO's.

[trp806mo]

in this case there is two issues. One concerning the fact that we may have no triggering at all and the other which is to have the right behavior  in normal mode and none in the single mode.

[pt1elec_dev]

Yeap. I could have easily reproduced the zone trigger issue with simillar waveform from seronday's case. The zone trigger feature seems quite broken overall.

[Martin72]

At work I´ve updated one 2K+, the others not so I can compare the menus old/new fw to see whats new/changing(without a notice)...

Here a variety, left pics are the new (last) firmware.
Made more pics, but this could be fake ones - because I saw them once after the firmware upgrade and then never again.
(when you going into the (sub) menus for the fist time after upgrade).
Here the "true changes":

[tautech]

Here the "true changes":

Yes all described as: Optimized UI

A major version change to a V5 FW to keep up with the improvements in the UI in 6kA, 2kX HD and 5kX.
If a business was to have a range of these models an engineer can now sit in front of any instrument and they all drive the same way.
Only the SDS2000X Plus is missing the new Mem management feature added to the other models.

[Martin72]

Yes all described as: Optimized UI

Yep, as mentioned before.

Only the SDS2000X HD is missing the new Mem management feature added to the other models.

Hm? You mean the plus...

[vicki20july]

Only the SDS2000X Plus is missing the new Mem management feature added to the other models.

Any news, if the Mem management feature will ever be added to SDS2000X+ Series ?

[tautech]

Only the SDS2000X Plus is missing the new Mem management feature added to the other models.

Any news, if the Mem management feature will ever be added to SDS2000X+ Series ?

Been asked this before and at this price point I don't think so but I have been wrong before.
Still, if there was a need to promote sales and X Plus HW supports it, well anything is possible.

Then, should the Toy Wonder take it into his head to investigate the higher model's code, extract the necessary bits (excuse pun) and splice then into SDS2000X Plus SW and then share it with us, wow would you then have a very capable cheap scope.

However X Plus is already a very capable scope if you know how to use the Zoom mode like one does with a LeCroy.