Rigol HDO1000 and HDO4000 12bit oscilloscopes launched in China

[ebastler]

Doesn't the DHO1000 series also provide for dual ADC or something so you can run 2 channels at full speed like the SDS1104X-E ?  The DHO800 series cuts down sampling rate for 2 channels.

No, it's a single ADC as well in the DHO1000.

[ebastler]

So what is this "DHO100U" models difference? Sorry I cannot have time to translate the chinese or to guess about it.

Looks like a downgrade from the DHO1000 series: Half the memory size (25 MPts standard, 50 optional) and a reduced waveform capture rate (max. 30k/s regular mode, 500k/s UltraAquire mode).

[Antonio90]

So what is this "DHO100U" models difference? Sorry I cannot have time to translate the chinese or to guess about it.

Looks like a downgrade from the DHO1000 series: Half the memory size (25 MPts standard, 50 optional) and a reduced waveform capture rate (max. 30k/s regular mode, 500k/s UltraAquire mode).

My guess is that they have taken the 800/900 FPGA and memory and put it in the DHO1000 package.

[ebastler]

My guess is that they have taken the 800/900 FPGA and memory and put it in the DHO1000 package.

But then how do they get 2 GSa/s out of that? Unless the 800/900 are artificially throttled...

[skander36]

Doesn't the DHO1000 series also provide for dual ADC or something so you can run 2 channels at full speed like the SDS1104X-E ?  The DHO800 series cuts down sampling rate for 2 channels.
...

If DHO 1K had 2 ADC's would have been a killer for his big brother DHO 4K. It can be transformed through vendor.bin method into DHO 4000 model, but with one ADC it is not too usefull as the software expect 2 ADC.

[Antonio90]

My guess is that they have taken the 800/900 FPGA and memory and put it in the DHO1000 package.

But then how do they get 2 GSa/s out of that? Unless the 800/900 are artificially throttled...

I don't know really. Maybe it is throttled, or it might just be a bad guess. But, why would they make a model like the 1000u if not for BOM savings? (and lowering the price)
Assuming everything else is the same (frontend, screen, ADC, etc), it looks like the most sensible approach.

[TomKatt]

Can't find much info on the HDO1000U series - are you even certain it offers the same 2gbs rate ?

[skander36]

[Antonio90]

I don't know if the U model will launch in Europe, but maybe they are discontinuing the DHO1000? With the Black Friday promotion and all.
Right now, at $600 plus $300, if you know how to desolder and solder the ADC, a 1074 could be turned into a 4804 for less than 1k, bar the active probe interfaces.

[Fungus]

So what is this "DHO100U" models difference? Sorry I cannot have time to translate the chinese or to guess about it.

Looks like a downgrade from the DHO1000 series: Half the memory size (25 MPts standard, 50 optional) and a reduced waveform capture rate (max. 30k/s regular mode, 500k/s UltraAquire mode).

If it has the big screen and 2GSa/sec. then it could be worth a look...

[phecap]

Can't find much info on the HDO1000U series - are you even certain it offers the same 2gbs rate ?

You can find all information here:
https://www.rigol.eu/products/oscillosopes/DHO1000%20series.html
Data sheet:
https://www.rigol.eu/Public/Uploads/uploadfile/files/20221123/20221123203334_637e131e9efd2.pdf
User manual:
https://www.rigol.eu/Public/Uploads/uploadfile/files/20221123/20221123203520_637e138873720.pdf

[Fungus]

My guess is that they have taken the 800/900 FPGA and memory and put it in the DHO1000 package.

But then how do they get 2 GSa/s out of that? Unless the 800/900 are artificially throttled...

I'm guessing it's not the exact same FPGA. Maybe something intermediate.

(or a higher speed version of the same FPGA if there is one...)

[Fungus]

Can't find much info on the HDO1000U series - are you even certain it offers the same 2gbs rate ?

You can find all information here:
https://www.rigol.eu/products/oscillosopes/DHO1000%20series.html
Data sheet:
https://www.rigol.eu/Public/Uploads/uploadfile/files/20221123/20221123203334_637e131e9efd2.pdf
User manual:
https://www.rigol.eu/Public/Uploads/uploadfile/files/20221123/20221123203520_637e138873720.pdf

That doesn't have a 'U' in the name.

[ebastler]

Right now, at $600 plus $300, if you know how to desolder and solder the ADC, a 1074 could be turned into a 4804 for less than 1k, bar the active probe interfaces.

I thought the ADC is a Rigol custom chip? Is it available separately?
Also, are you sure that's the only difference -- maybe different FPGA or RAM speed grades are also used?

[Antonio90]

Right now, at $600 plus $300, if you know how to desolder and solder the ADC, a 1074 could be turned into a 4804 for less than 1k, bar the active probe interfaces.

I thought the ADC is a Rigol custom chip? Is it available separately?
Also, are you sure that's the only difference -- maybe different FPGA or RAM speed grades are also used?

Maybe, although I doubt that is the case WRT the FPGA. I recall seeing photos of both boards, and they were the same except for the ADC chip. (EDIT: the missing second ADC)
The $300 is wrong, it is actually 350 for a "donor" DHO802.

[Fungus]

Maybe, although I doubt that is the case WRT the FPGA. I recall seeing photos of both boards, and they were the same except for the ADC chip. (EDIT: the missing second ADC)
The $300 is wrong, it is actually 350 for a "donor" DHO802.

There's a new firmware out there that mentions an "edu" version so maybe there might be a cheaper one soon.

It's not something I'd attempt though. That sort of mod is for tough guys only.

[Antonio90]

It's quite risky indeed. I wouldn't either, as I have no clue about reballing or PCB rework, nor suitable equipment for that matter.
A professional service would make the affair quite a bit more expensive, and, of course, you would have to forfeit the 3 years warranty.

[ebastler]

It's quite risky indeed. I wouldn't either, as I have no clue about reballing or PCB rework, nor suitable equipment for that matter.
A professional service would make the affair quite a bit more expensive, and, of course, you would have to forfeit the 3 years warranty.

Wait for the big discounts on the DHO4000 then. 

I think they might come, as Rigol must follow up with a model that supports AWG and LA options. It seems a bit absurd in this price class to have a "bare oscilloscope" model only. And the front panel looks half-empty too...

[Antonio90]

It would have to be a really big discount. The above "shenanigans" would already be at the top of my price range, and I don't really need 800MHz nor have any active probes.

[TomKatt]

It would have to be a really big discount. The above "shenanigans" would already be at the top of my price range, and I don't really need 800MHz nor have any active probes.

I would suspect that anyone really needing 800mhz equipment is just going to buy a device properly rated for the task.  Seems like those frequencies are well outside the average hobbyist's need.

Getting a base model 70mhz scope and being able to upgrade it to 200mhz (knowing the front end is amply capable) is a pretty good deal itself.

[Fungus]

I don't really need 800MHz nor have any active probes.

You can't probe anything close to 800Mhz without them.

I would suspect that anyone really needing 800mhz equipment is just going to buy a device properly rated for the task.  Seems like those frequencies are well outside the average hobbyist's need.

The DHO4000 is really an "active probes only" scope. It's cheap for people who need that but very overpriced for everybody else.

Getting a base model 70mhz scope and being able to upgrade it to 200mhz (knowing the front end is amply capable) is a pretty good deal itself.

Get a DHO800 for that :-)

[tszaboo]

I don't really need 800MHz nor have any active probes.

You can't probe anything close to 800Mhz without them.

I would suspect that anyone really needing 800mhz equipment is just going to buy a device properly rated for the task.  Seems like those frequencies are well outside the average hobbyist's need.

The DHO4000 is really an "active probes only" scope. It's cheap for people who need that but very overpriced for everybody else.

Getting a base model 70mhz scope and being able to upgrade it to 200mhz (knowing the front end is amply capable) is a pretty good deal itself.

Get a DHO800 for that :-)

Z0 probe will go to a GHz easy. And the high speed is not only for probing signals. You could use the FFT with EMC probes, connect it to all kinds of RF systems with 50 Ohm output or use it as a timer/counter.

[Martin72]

Rigol shop is selling the 1072 for 486€, the 1074 for 700€ on amazon.de incl. VAT and shipping.
That's incredibly cheap, but I don't think it means anything except that you probably get an HDO instead of a DHO.
This will just be a sale of leftover stock with the old designation.

https://www.amazon.de/HDO1072-Digitaloszilloskop-EXT-Kanal-1-500-000-Touch-Display/dp/B0BJ2NYKNL?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1

[skander36]

Rigol shop is selling the 1072 for 486€, the 1074 for 700€ on amazon.de incl. VAT and shipping.
That's incredibly cheap, but I don't think it means anything except that you probably get an HDO instead of a DHO.
This will just be a sale of leftover stock with the old designation.

https://www.amazon.de/HDO1072-Digitaloszilloskop-EXT-Kanal-1-500-000-Touch-Display/dp/B0BJ2NYKNL?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1

Yes, 486 E for a scope with 12 bit, 10' touch screen, 200 MHz, 2GSa/s, 100 mpts, is a bargain.

[Antonio90]

I don't really need 800MHz nor have any active probes.

You can't probe anything close to 800Mhz without them.

I would suspect that anyone really needing 800mhz equipment is just going to buy a device properly rated for the task.  Seems like those frequencies are well outside the average hobbyist's need.

The DHO4000 is really an "active probes only" scope. It's cheap for people who need that but very overpriced for everybody else.

Getting a base model 70mhz scope and being able to upgrade it to 200mhz (knowing the front end is amply capable) is a pretty good deal itself.

Get a DHO800 for that :-)

Z0 probe will go to a GHz easy. And the high speed is not only for probing signals. You could use the FFT with EMC probes, connect it to all kinds of RF systems with 50 Ohm output or use it as a timer/counter.

You are right. There are also a few reasonably low cost/DIY active FET probes, and having a 50 Ohm termination one can always use the "transmission line" probe. Still, realistically, noobs like me won't be able to pull the hack, even assuming there are no further firmware-related setbacks. Populating the missing components, modifying the frontend (even if it's only a slight modification), and desoldering/resoldering the custom ADC...
There are so many things that can go wrong, and even if they don't, you might not be able to calibrate it correctly.