EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi group,

There is nothing new about the schematic. The application for battery life extension is stated on the LTC3526 datasheet published in 2007.

AAA implementation


I was successful in building a boost converter in the AA form factor. I wanted to see if the AAA form factor was possible.


(The PCB is 10mm diameter (2 Bs' D)

Here is my schematic:



And here is component placement for an AAA size boost converter:



It would be possible to route this arrangement without too much difficulty. I have reduced the size of the input and output capacitor to 0402. Digikey has 0402 4.7uF at 4V  X5R.

I used a 1.6mm x 1.6mm MAPI inductor from Wurth. This inductor has a DCR of 338m Ohms.

It is possible to build this circuit in the required space.

LTspice Model of the AAA solution

I constructed an LTspice model to see what kind of performance can be expected from this implementation.


Modelling Results

It works well enough to fool a VC monkey. The output is limited to 150mA with a 1.2V battery.



At 1.0V input.



Now I could probably squeeze a little more output with a larger inductor, but not much more.


 

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Unless they really have developed a new chip that does something special, this horse is on its knees and ready for a faceplant.

In that case, shouldn't there be a patent request specific to the chip itself?

Chip manufacturers' will typically patent the features of chip that allows it to function in a specific application. They don't typically patent the application. They want to allow people to use the chips in as many applications as possible. They want to prevent other chip manufacturers' offering competing products. An 'Application' patent would be too narrow to be useful.

The application to specific problem is typically patented by the purchaser of the chip.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[Jay_Diddy_B]

The LTC3400 can be ruled out.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

Jay_Diddy_B, can you do a constant power discharge of a fresh AA cell, plotting the discharge curve?

The Electrician,

What are you hoping to see? My HP load does not offer a constant power discharge mode. It could be done using the HPIB control to modify the current drawn as the voltage drops. I am not sure that it would have high enough resolution. It is a 300W load.

I have a accurate SPICE model of an AA battery that was made from measured data. This could be used to get a really good idea.

Have a look at this thread:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/modeling-an-alkaline-battery-in-ltspice/

in reply #4 I model a constant power discharge.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi,

I think I have earned a shot of 'Jolly Woker - Red Labia #1'. I have a copy of copy..

Jay_Diddy_B

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Meanwhile on the Batteriser Facebook page we have:



Lakshimi Narasimhan is listed as a campaigner on IGG.
https://www.indiegogo.com/individuals/11057878


Jay_Diddy_B

[g.lewarne]

but again, its vague meaningless non-info

"shipping dates are coming soon!" could mean than in a month they will tell you they are going to ship in October.....

[WN1X]

I sure wish they would hurry up and ship the damn things. I am almost out of pop corn 

[The Electrician]

Jay_Diddy_B, can you do a constant power discharge of a fresh AA cell, plotting the discharge curve?

The Electrician,

What are you hoping to see? My HP load does not offer a constant power discharge mode. It could be done using the HPIB control to modify the current drawn as the voltage drops. I am not sure that it would have high enough resolution. It is a 300W load.

I have a accurate SPICE model of an AA battery that was made from measured data. This could be used to get a really good idea.

Have a look at this thread:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/modeling-an-alkaline-battery-in-ltspice/

in reply #4 I model a constant power discharge.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

I was hoping to see exactly what your reply #4 shows in that other thread.  With a constant power load and high efficiency in the converter, the battery current rises rapidly as the battery life ends and there is no warning that the battery output is about to very rapidly collapse.  i gather that the Batteriser does allow the output voltage to drop a little as the battery is exhausted, but I don't think it is what typical devices will be expecting, and therefore their low battery indicator won't give a proper indication.

If the Batteriser people will have to come up with a new name, how about "Suck-it-dry"?

[PA0PBZ]

Meanwhile on the Batteriser Facebook page we have:

www.baterriser.com ?

[jippie]

Meanwhile on the Batteriser Facebook page we have:

<SNIP>

Jay_Diddy_B

Similar message on Twitter, but the communications department logged on with the right username.

Or maybe the guy on facebook is just enthusiastic and copied the message from Twitter.

[PA0PBZ]

Similar message on Twitter, but the communications department logged on with the right username.

But still the wrong url.

[jippie]

I mentioned it before: I just don't get it that news related to the campaign appears on secondary channels first.

[Nerull]

Batt=risfr? Baterriser?

"Your honor, we can't violate energizers trademark because we have no idea what our product is called."

I wonder if they're desperately trying to rebrand but no one is on the same page as to the new name.

[rrinker]

 Yes, that 9V design is just fail button worthy. The ONE place I actually could use a boost converter like that, it would never fit. The throttle unit for my model railroad DCC system was unfortunately designed to use a 9V battery AND it's very voltage sensitive. It doesn't actually draw a lot of power, but when the voltage falls to about 8.4V it gets flakey - which almost totally rules out using standard '9V' rechargeables. I would ne nice if they redesigned the thing to use a low voltage micro so it could run off a pair of AA batteries. There IS room inside if I build a small converter though....
 And of course the obvious DANGEROUS fail was already pointed out, when people whack them into smoke alarms and it defeats the low battery warning.

 Probably these latest notices are because they said March, and it's almost March now, thus "coming soon!" SO, what will be the next excuse? There needs to be a reworked Magic 8 Ball with potential Batteriser excuses on the faces so we can randomly generate one. Anything going on in China after the end of the New year celebration? More landslides? Will this be the time they trot out the "persecuted by Big Battery" excuse? Stay tuned for the next episode of "As the Battery Discharges"

"

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi,

Is just me or has this message on the Batteriser Facebook gone already?





If has gone, it would seem that Dr. Bob does not want any mention of a ship date.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[ChunkyPastaSauce]

Well they are promising to ship in 30 days batteriser.com for people ordering today
 

[ez24]

Well they are promising to ship in 30 days batteriser.com for people ordering today

Now we will see how many days "30 days" are, like 800 %

We should take bets.

[jippie]

Hi,

Is just me or has this message on the Batteriser Facebook gone already?

<SNIP>

Batteriser's Twitter entry is gonski too. Luckily we still have the pictures.

[EEVblog]

www.baterriser.com ?

Can't even get their own URL right 
Domain not even registered.

[Fungus]

www.baterriser.com ?

Can't even get their own URL right 
Domain not even registered.

Somebody register it, quick! We can can put our own message board up there.

[timb]

www.baterriser.com ?

Can't even get their own URL right 
Domain not even registered.

Somebody register it, quick! We can can put our own message board up there.

Done. (Seriously. I've got it for a year. One advantage of having a well funded account with eNom, from my days in the hosting business.)

Should I redirect it to Goatse, 2G1C or Lemon Party? Decisions, decisions...

Oh! Maybe I could photoshop Energizer batteries shooting out of the Goatse man's gaping chasm!

[Kean]

While tempting, those are all a bit childish.

Seems like the best thing to do is redirect it to EEVblog 751 on YT, or alternatively to this forum.

[jancumps]

Should we go back to electronics and stop these games? It makes the blog look like trollcentral.

[meeder]

While tempting, those are all a bit childish.

Seems like the best thing to do is redirect it to EEVblog 751 on YT, or alternatively to this forum.

Linking to the debunking video is the best option.

[Brumby]

Should we go back to electronics and stop these games? It makes the blog look like trollcentral.

An understandable sentiment, but we - and the rest of the world - are STILL WAITING for the electronics to make it's debut!

So what do we do while we wait ... ignore the matter???


I'm sure Bob would like us all to let it fade into a foggy memory.