Author Topic: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations  (Read 676349 times)

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Offline Jono434

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3700 on: November 11, 2023, 02:10:59 pm »
A 5W 220 Ohm resistor should work pretty well up to 90mA, which I doubt it consumes, more likely around 50mA.

Code: [Select]
I (mA) LDO ONLY PWR RES (W) PWR LDO (W)
10 0,21 0,02 0,19
20 0,41 0,09 0,33
30 0,62 0,20 0,42
40 0,83 0,35 0,48
50 1,04 0,55 0,49
60 1,24 0,79 0,45
70 1,45 1,08 0,37
80 1,66 1,41 0,25
90 1,86 1,78 0,08
I've tried to consider all options available and it's really good to have this information like this.

I saw some buck converters you mentioned earlier in the thread - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32768078949.html

Do you still recommend these, or are there better options now?  I could see two potential uses for these.  One for stepping down from 24V to 5V for the LDO.  But also.. if using an external 24V output for a Pinecil or TS101, to adjust the voltage from 24V to 20V for example.  The variable resistor faces upwards which would allow for easy adjustment.  Would it be fine for these applications?  It's so small!

I haven't read the whole thread yet because it's very long.  The journey of this firmware has been a long road of 5+ years!  Maybe I should read the latest pages first and work backwards.

Another confusing thing.. many pages back (somewhere in 2023 though) someone posted a pic of the green PCB for 2.1S, the one that I also posted.  A user said the STM32 chip was probably fake.  But the two boards are sold on KSGER's official store on AliExpress.  It was probably easier to buy a genuine controller board a few years ago and now it's hard to know.
 

Offline DavidAlfa

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3701 on: November 11, 2023, 02:13:03 pm »
Yeah these regulators are great, but not good for this application, meant for 24V max, you're pushing them to the limit.
Try finding similar ones rated for 30V or so.

Edit: The Mini560 Pro will do fine, capable of 32V (Take the 5V version).
Must be the "Pro" version, the "normal" one only handles 20V max!
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005986412127.html


Mosfet failure is 99.99% caused by damaged wiring or iron tips, I don't solder that much, yet already 3 tips have shorted.
While you're happily soldering, suddenly a loud ticking sound starts coming from the iron station.
Quickly turn it off, remove the tip, measure it... 0.3Ohms.
After tearing it down, saw the isolated wire had dettached and shorted to the tip case.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2023, 02:22:09 pm by DavidAlfa »
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Offline Jono434

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3702 on: November 11, 2023, 02:16:58 pm »
I can measure a consumption a bit later today. I'll give you know.
Thanks, that'd be interesting information to know.

Here is my Ksger consumption measured with Owon B41t+.
Really interesting information, thanks.

Is there any AliExpress link to the buck converter you used?  The way you mounted it was very interesting, in terms of vertically taking up such small amount of space.
 

Offline SIV

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3703 on: November 12, 2023, 07:46:53 am »
Yeah these regulators are great, but not good for this application, meant for 24V max, you're pushing them to the limit.
Try finding similar ones rated for 30V or so.


Here is a video where the MP2315 module is tested.
At documented 24 V, the module withstood 33 V, went into protection (turned off) at 40 V, and failed (burned) at 45 V.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2023, 07:48:58 am by SIV »
 
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Offline DavidAlfa

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3704 on: November 12, 2023, 01:31:16 pm »
40V? Well, that was just pushing the luck, not to be taken seriously. Just like running 200mph with shredded tyres. Still nice to know :).
The official datasheet states 24V, 28V absolute maximum, so it might me ok-ish with 24.5-25V.
But definitely not more! :-DD
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Offline Jono434

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3705 on: November 12, 2023, 01:35:11 pm »
Thanks guys, the controller issue seems mostly solved (in theory).

The controller board side of things seems more manageable now.  For example, regardless of which controller board is used.. there seems to be a way to make any of any of them work.  And to improvise depending on what each board requires.  I hope to get a real STM32 chip and not a fake chip.

In terms of the firmware I've been watching some videos people posted, and wanted to clarify some things.  The compatible tips are - Hakko T12, JBC C245, and JBC C210 or is there others?

When the board powers up for the first time, it requires the selection of a profile.  Once the profile is chosen, you can dial in and change the settings, create a profile for each tip etc.  When the board is switched off and on, the previous profile is remembered.  But does it auto detect if you switch from T12 to C245 for example?  And if switching to C245, are there a separate set of tip profiles only for C245 tips?

I noticed there are power limits.  What are the recommend amps/wattage values for each handle type (for PSU specs).

At 24V:

Hakko T12 - 8 ohm  -    72W (but can be 78W if you run 25V for example)
JBC C245 - 2.5 ohm -  230W (160W JBC default firmware restriction?)
JBC C210 - 2 ohm    -  288W (160W JBC default firmware restriction?)

I've seen some C245 stations go as high as 200W, while others use lower values.  Is C210 supposed to run at 12V? I read something about adjusting PWM to 25% to run it at 24V, does this work ok?  I basically just want to know if it's ok to run all 3 of these at 24V and what the power limit range is.  And is it in increments of 10, or adjustable by 1?  50W, 60W, 70W etc.  And the range of adjustment, for example 40W-160W or 200W?
 

Offline DavidAlfa

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3706 on: November 12, 2023, 02:57:53 pm »
Forget all that, you only set the power the tip is rated for, and the heater resistance.
This is not for the PSU, but to protect the tip, if you could run 200W into a T12 it would burn in seconds.
The FW does this automatically based on the PSU voltage reading, so it doesn't mater if you're feeeding 18, 24 or 30V, the applied power will be the same.
I doubt C210 can hadle 160W continuously (More like 70-80W) without burning or greatly reducing the heater lifespan, though JBC "kicks" it with high power for short time to compensate temperature drop and/or heat up faster.
But this behaviour will be probably be limited and controlled in the firmware to prevent overloading it.
C245 is a lot more powerful and shoudl take 160W without a blink, still no way it can take 280W continuously.

Using 12V might cause the mosfet to conduct poorly, overheat and burn.

Following this request, I made some changes to the button handling.
- Release v1.10.6

Feedback will be appreciated, but don't enter frenzy request mode, I really can't spend much time there.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2023, 03:06:52 pm by DavidAlfa »
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Offline ricktendoTopic starter

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3707 on: November 12, 2023, 03:50:59 pm »
Forget all that, you only set the power the tip is rated for, and the heater resistance.
This is not for the PSU, but to protect the tip, if you could run 200W into a T12 it would burn in seconds.
The FW does this automatically based on the PSU voltage reading, so it doesn't mater if you're feeeding 18, 24 or 30V, the applied power will be the same.
I doubt C210 can hadle 160W continuously (More like 70-80W) without burning or greatly reducing the heater lifespan, though JBC "kicks" it with high power for short time to compensate temperature drop and/or heat up faster.
But this behaviour will be probably be limited and controlled in the firmware to prevent overloading it.
C245 is a lot more powerful and shoudl take 160W without a blink, still no way it can take 280W continuously.

Using 12V might cause the mosfet to conduct poorly, overheat and burn.

Following this request, I made some changes to the button handling.
- Release v1.10.6

Feedback will be appreciated, but don't enter frenzy request mode, I really can't spend much time there.
I approve and love the ease of the new feature; however, maybe you should rename "Btn wake" setting to some abbreviated form of "Rotary/Encoder wake"
 

Offline DavidAlfa

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3708 on: November 12, 2023, 03:55:44 pm »
C'mon, Btn ~= The user-activated thingy!

Now, which would be the easiest, most straightforward / self-explaining for most users? ;)
- BTN wake.
- ENC wake.
- ROT wake.

Absolute correctness it's not always the best!
I don't have a 4K display to show "Rotation-triggered wake source activation".
Still wrong, someone will think it has to rotate the station itself, or the table, or rotate the tip 180°.
Or better π/2, just in case someone tries heating the station to 180°C to wake it up... :-DD

Jokes apart, as per the manual that everyone should read:
Quote
Button Wake
Selects what modes can be waken with encoder activity.
[None] [Standby only] [Sleep only] [All]
This option is disabled when Wake mode is set to Stand.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2023, 04:10:21 pm by DavidAlfa »
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Offline Jono434

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3709 on: November 13, 2023, 05:50:50 am »
Forget all that, you only set the power the tip is rated for, and the heater resistance.
This is not for the PSU, but to protect the tip, if you could run 200W into a T12 it would burn in seconds.
The FW does this automatically based on the PSU voltage reading, so it doesn't mater if you're feeeding 18, 24 or 30V, the applied power will be the same.
I doubt C210 can hadle 160W continuously (More like 70-80W) without burning or greatly reducing the heater lifespan, though JBC "kicks" it with high power for short time to compensate temperature drop and/or heat up faster.
But this behaviour will be probably be limited and controlled in the firmware to prevent overloading it.
C245 is a lot more powerful and shoudl take 160W without a blink, still no way it can take 280W continuously.

Using 12V might cause the mosfet to conduct poorly, overheat and burn.

Following this request, I made some changes to the button handling.
- Release v1.10.6

Feedback will be appreciated, but don't enter frenzy request mode, I really can't spend much time there.

Oh, so input voltage into the controller doesn't matter and the current is adjusted automatically.  That's good to know.

I understand that I may have been over complicating things, but it's mainly because I'm trying to decide chassis size, and PSU specs.  A part of me thinks that it might be better to start a DIY thread, but also a lot of this does relate to the firmware.  In terms of what the options can be.

I'm exploring the possibility of using two irons at once from the same chassis.  Keep in mind, similar to yourself, I don't solder that often but for specs, it might be nice to have for those rare times where I want two different tips for example.  And having one enclosure and mains cable instead of two makes it easier.  For example a heavy tip with higher power to solder a larger electrolytic cap, and a smaller iron with a smaller tip for fine PCB work.

Option A, a larger chassis than the standard size.. enough headroom in the PSU that it never reaches the limit (200W).  Restricting power levels in the firmware doesn't matter much in this case.

Option B, the standard size chassis (maybe 160mm long instead of 130mm).. but with only 140W power capability.  This should be enough power for C245 to work ok.  Using C245 with a Pinecil/TS101 would not be an option.  But T12 and C210 could work quite well in combination with external 24V port.  The PSU has 3 X 24V outputs.  For example, one for controller board, one for buck converter and one for rear output.  But if the two combined are nearing the wattage of 140W, could I power limit T12 to 60W for example, or C210 to 40W if a situation required it?  The way the irons draw current for a few seconds after wakeup, this is probably a non issue but I like to always have a little bit of extra headroom for long term reliability.

C245 140W
T12   80W
C210 60W

Those are the wattages I would like to use, but with the ability to set the T12 to 60W or 40W.  And the C210 to 40W.  Just wondering if this is possible.  For example.. using T12 at 80W.  Plug a second iron in the back for 5 mins.. set the T12 to 40W.  Use the second iron for a few mins and then unplug it.  Set the T12 back to 80W.  I'm not really looking to request a bunch of firmware features, I understand that this is frustrating to have too many requests, but more to understand what it is already capable of.  Also, sometimes simplicity is better than having a menu with 100 options.  But this new feature does seem useful.

A vote here for ENC Wake, but it's a preference thing and all 3 are ok.  There is only one button, so BTN Wake works.  If I were in your position, I'd name it one thing and see how many people care.  If it's the majority change it, if it's just one or two people.. leave it as is.
 

Offline DavidAlfa

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3710 on: November 13, 2023, 07:51:59 pm »
It's so sad that after 2 years only one person found the small easter egg!
* sigh *
Hint: Double click SYSTEM / HW. Then enter sleep mode.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2023, 07:53:40 pm by DavidAlfa »
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Offline Kryderr

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3711 on: November 14, 2023, 07:05:45 am »
Hello DavidAlfa - thanks for great firmware! Need some help for improving station - I installed firmware (controller KSGER v3.0s, I will also flash a second one with v2.0s hardware in the near future) - via UART, everything is fine - except for "self-resets" at the slighty filling of the screen (for example when adjusting temperature), lowering the brightness did not help much. The power supply produces about 25.6V, the stock LDO at 3.3V was installed "SE8533" - which heated up like a beast.

As a result, I found a 100 ohm - 5 W resistor - I soldered it between the diode output and Vin of the LDO. The unit is also heating up - but resets when adjusting the temperature are generally completely gone, BUT with some glitchy T12 tips (with some voltage surges/drops in the power supply) - the station still resets when attempting to fully heat up (or a minute after successful warm-up).

Is it worth the trouble of installing a DC>DC module 30V>3.3V\5V? (here I also don’t understand why some people use 5V? Will this speed up the burnout of the OLED) - and will there be any advantages and improvements in performance? And will it help with the operation of “buggy tips” (I soldered the pins under the hood, it didn’t help - BUT these tips work perfectly on a simple T12 soldering station without full thermal control), also - i have also 100nF capacitor with FX9501 handle clone kit - is it necessary to install this cap on the NTC resistor or another line?
 

Offline Jono434

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3712 on: November 14, 2023, 07:57:27 am »
Is power limit adjustable on the firmware, I haven't seen a video showing that.  If it is, I just want to know the range of adjustment.

I'm going to create a DIY thread, so that I don't derail this firmware thread with parts that don't relate to it directly.

Is it worth the trouble of installing a DC>DC module 30V>3.3V\5V? (here I also don’t understand why some people use 5V? Will this speed up the burnout of the OLED) - and will there be any advantages and improvements in performance?
Hopefully someone more informed can address this, but I believe it's all about making the regulator on the controller board behave correctly.  It's designed to step the voltage down and dissipates the excessive heat in doing so.  If feeding the LDO 2V for example, I don't believe it would function correctly, although some designs might.  There are other factors as well, like noise.  For example.. you could get a buck converter that outputs 3.3V and feed that straight into the STM32 and but this isn't optimal and would most likely be very noisey.  The PCB is designed with this in mind.   The LDO needs to be as close to the STM32 as possible, and the other resistors and capacitors are in the circuit also filter noise, based on the datasheet requirements of that specific regulator.

So it seems the best situation.. use the buck converter elsewhere, and then feed it into the LDO on the controller board.  A value 4V could probably be used but isn't a common number, 5V is common and easy to find and the heat generated is very small.  6V, 7V, 8V they all work but generate unnecessary heat.  I could be wrong but I think the main goal is to feed the STM32 with a line of DC that has as low ripple and noise as possible.  For overall good stability and performance of the controller chip and display.
 

Offline DavidAlfa

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3713 on: November 14, 2023, 08:04:34 am »
No, you feed the 3.3v regulator with 5V instead from 24V, everything is still powered with 3.3V.
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Offline trisonic

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3714 on: November 20, 2023, 01:21:26 pm »
Hello

I have a Lafayette SDD-9 (ZD-931A), which is working properly but which I no longer use (it is slow to heat up).
I would like to upgrade to use it again and would like to replace it with one of these T12 boards.
Since it has a wide transparent window, I would like to use the whole thing.
What is the version on the market with the largest possible screen?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: November 20, 2023, 02:14:03 pm by trisonic »
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Offline DavidAlfa

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3715 on: November 20, 2023, 02:17:28 pm »
Largest is 1.3" but you can replace the screen with a 2.4" ssd1309 oled.
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Offline Jono434

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3716 on: November 23, 2023, 12:45:41 pm »
After doing more reading, I've realised that T245 is not interchangeable, and that auto detect is not possible with the firmware.  Choosing profile is required when switching handles but that is no problem.  For CFW,  C210 + T12 can be interchangable or T245 by itself.  T245 requires a mod on the PCB.  I've found some screenshots of what the PCB mod is but I'm not still not sure 100% what the mod is doing.  Or how to wire the T245 handle vs T12 and T210, but that is not important for now.  I'm mainly focused on T12 and T210.  I might do a T245 station later.

I ordered some Sugon handles for T12, T210 and T245, but they haven't arrived yet.  The main reason I chose Sugon is because the front part of the T12 handle fits into the Aixun T3A stand properly is the same size as T245.  They come with a 6 pin connector but after rewiring they will be compatible with Aixun T3A station. But mainly, I want them to work with KSGER CFW but I realised that there are some other differences.

For example JBC style handles like Aixun and Sugon use 3 core soldering cable.  There is no NTC wired in the handle and no shake switch.  No shake switch is fine because I want to use Stand Mode.

Is NTC required to be wired into the handle for the CFW to work properly?  I saw that in the firmware, there is NTC MENU section but I am not sure what the settings mean.  Can I make adjustments in the firmware so that T12 and T210 works with no NTC in the handle?  I assume that it can work this way but I haven't yet found the information about this.  I'm not even sure why there is NTC in the handle, because the tip is supposed to have one already inside of it?

If I need to, I can order some NTC MF58 3950F 1% and some 4 or 5 core wire.  But is it required for these Sugon handles to function properly with CFW?
 

Offline DavidAlfa

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3717 on: November 23, 2023, 02:53:47 pm »
Please first read the user manual at GitHub, ask later!
The mod is required because C245 has independent TC sensor, while in T12 and C210 it's in series with the heater.
After the mod, you'll use a new pin for TC, so it won't work with T12 / C210 anymore, that pin must be joined to T+ in the connector of C210 and T12 handles to make them work.
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Offline Jono434

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3718 on: November 23, 2023, 03:45:23 pm »
Thanks for your reply.  I don't fully understand how these soldering irons work, so I need to learn the basics of what that means, in terms of why one unit wires it one way and why the other handle wires things a different way.  The positives and negatives of each approach and how it changes things.

I thought I had read the manual when I read this.  But a few days ago I was downloading ST-LINK and trying to understand the firmware, and then found this and felt stupid, and realised I haven't seen it.  Is this what I need to read?  I might have already read it when I found it, but I was tired and might have forgot something.

I've been trying to juggle too many different things lately.  But there is also no rush because it will take two weeks for ordered things to arrive.  I've downloaded and installed all of the software for ST-LINK, but I'm new to all of this stuff and there is only so much time in the day.  I was drawing some handle/PCB wiring diagrams but then I realized I don't know if I need NTC or not.  Or if 3 core cable is enough to work with KSGER firmware.

I will have a nights sleep and read the manual again with a fresh mind.
 

Offline DavidAlfa

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3719 on: November 23, 2023, 03:58:32 pm »
Yes, the operation manual..there you will see what NTC settings do.
But yeah it'll work without a NTC, but might have some temperature drift as the handle heats up.
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Offline sdouze

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3720 on: November 23, 2023, 08:55:05 pm »
None of these, they're the worst ones, with the linear regulator running off 24V, often overheating or failing.
This one is better made.
The green has a buck regulator, the blue con is not shown.
Ask for pictures before buying!
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005590057638.html

But I would avoid the DIY part and buy the full thing dor just $15 more.

Personal advice for the handle: The cheap, blue plastic one.
The others are just stupid, containing aluminium, a great heat conductor, so the entire handle will be burning hot after 10 minutes.

Mini vs full is the same thing, the only difference is the PSU.

Hello ,
do you have a link for a compatible station?

Thank you in advance.
 

Offline ohmware

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3721 on: November 24, 2023, 05:22:58 am »
Then follow this connection.
Edit: Also added pcb picture just to annoy Wickated :D



hi i have the same station which is mm32, is this the only modification so that i can use c245hanle and tips?.
 

Offline DavidAlfa

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3722 on: November 24, 2023, 06:34:44 am »
Yes
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Offline sdouze

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3723 on: November 24, 2023, 10:03:04 am »
« Last Edit: November 24, 2023, 10:05:23 am by sdouze »
 

Offline ohmware

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Re: CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations
« Reply #3724 on: November 24, 2023, 12:00:30 pm »
Yes

hi david, thanks for the reply, so with stock firmware, the c245 tips will work? and the handle is the same on the socket?
 


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