Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown

[2N3055]

I am in the process of buying an scope within a few weeks, and was wondering why the Siglent SDS1104X-E suddenly got a 10% discount this month (both at Eleshop, Welectron and Batronix) and this may be the reason. (Or maybe Siglent is planning to release an upgrade in a few months?)

12 bit is a significant upgrade compared to 8-bit, but everything else seems to be so much "cost optimized" that I only briefly considered this Rigol scope. And also, when I look at the Batronix prices, It's EUR594 for the Rigol compared to EUR 460 for the Siglent (Both 4 channels 100MHz versions).

This Rigol would need a bunch of very serious reviews before I would even consider buying it.
One thing I really dislike on Rigol is their measurements are done from on-screen data. That is really crippling your 12-bit ADC. How good is FFT on this 12-bitter compared to Siglent? Other functions, wave capture rate, measurement functions etc. How much are those being hampered by the "cost optimization" efforts? (To be fair, I'm not sure if the Siglent uses real data or screen pictures for the on-screen measurements, because the Siglent SDS1104X-E is near the top of what I am willing to spend on a scope, and I would have to make do with whatever it delivers anyway. (Siglent / Keysight / R&S are out of my range).

And things like the first products being shipped wit such a crappy power supply (See start of this thread) does not give much confidence. If this goes on then the Rigols would be just as bad as the fnirsi crap in just a few more iterations.

Siglent uses full data for measurements. And also it does multiple measurements from same buffer..

[MikeInAlaska]

Someone needs to make a VESA mount large fan with a normal ?NEMA? style electrical socket on it, and built in high quality USBC jack for a tiny cable to go into this scope.

[Martin72]

Hi,

How good is FFT on this 12-bitter compared to Siglent? Other functions, wave capture rate, measurement functions etc.

FFT was pure disappointment as I´ve tested the DHO4204 - Hard to believe it will getting better on the very little brother...
But if you´ll have a little bit patience, I´ve ordered the DHO804 and will compare it to the SDS1104X-E.
Scope should arrive in the first october week.

Martin

[Warhawk]

I  teardown DHO914S The point is on the AFG module, if it is possible to copy it and install it to DHO900 or DHO800?
AFG core chip is AD9744.

Hmm, this is interesting. The LM339M has old National Semi logo on it. I need to ask if TI still sells old national parts with the national logo.

edit: It seems that genuine LM339M is quite expensive for what it is and does not satisfy REACH.

[TheAmmoniacal]

A bit of a crazy comparison maybe.. but I've been considering the R&S RTB2004 for a while, but now the DHO914S looks interesting instead. I'm sure the R&S is a far more polished product, but why would you pick it over the Rigol? Is is far more capable in any respects?

[Warhawk]

A bit of a crazy comparison maybe.. but I've been considering the R&S RTB2004 for a while, but now the DHO914S looks interesting instead. I'm sure the R&S is a far more polished product, but why would you pick it over the Rigol? Is is far more capable in any respects?

RTB2004 is a great scope. I use one frequently. I wish I could get my hands on DHO914s and compare them side by side.

[Dacian]

A bit of a crazy comparison maybe.. but I've been considering the R&S RTB2004 for a while, but now the DHO914S looks interesting instead. I'm sure the R&S is a far more polished product, but why would you pick it over the Rigol? Is is far more capable in any respects?

RTB2004 is nowhere near in the same price category with DHO800 or 900. If price is no issue then RTB2004 is sure superior but it can not be compared due to cost plus if you add all the options you may need like serial decode it gets even more crazy.
I was also considering spending the excessive amount for the RTB2004 but after I seen that a lot of functionality required even more money I quickly changed my mind.
I ordered the DHO804 as the main thing I need is the 12bit resolution and I do not need the signal generator nor do I need the digital channels as for that a dedicated computer based setup is way better (more usable).

[balnazzar]

So, as some of you perhaps remember, I have a Sig 2K+ that works reasonably well (for the price).. I'm now tempted to buy the DHO800 for the sheer fun of owning one.. Little quasi-portable scope with usb-c power, vesa mounting... And hey! It's 12 bit!
Questions:

- Is it reasonably silent?
- Is the FFT on par with its Siglent competitor?
- Can it bodeplot with a Rigol gen?
- Is the 12-bit mode really something more than the Eres mode on my 2K+?
- Can I find it for less than the 474 bucks asked by Bartronix?
- Severe bugs I should be aware of?

Thanks!

[Fungus]

- Is the FFT on par with its Siglent competitor?
- Can it bodeplot with a Rigol gen?
- Is the 12-bit mode really something more than the Eres mode on my 2K+?
- Can I find it for less than the 474 bucks asked by Bartronix?
- Severe bugs I should be aware of?

Try reading the thread. Most of this has been discussed in the last few pages.

You can get it cheaper from Batterfly in Italy.

[Martin72]

- Is it reasonably silent?
- Is the FFT on par with its Siglent competitor?
- Can it bodeplot with a Rigol gen?
- Is the 12-bit mode really something more than the Eres mode on my 2K+?
- Can I find it for less than the 474 bucks asked by Bartronix?
- Severe bugs I should be aware of?

- ***
- No(SDS1104X-E).
- No.
- There is no 12 bit mode on the rigol, the rigol is a 12 bit scope..
- 14€ less when ordering by batterfly
- ***

***) Only a very few have this scope, more to come in october I guess.

[StillTrying]

I hate to ask, but has anyone found the 12 bits yet?

Resolution of the auto measurements? 3200 'steps' vs. 200 'steps' over the screen height should be noticable.

Anyone Stopped a 1 to 1.5 Div. sine wave, and then tried to Y expand the stopped waveform to see if any more resolution appears, rather than just some of the original 200 screen pixels Y stretched.

[EEVblog]

I hate to ask, but has anyone found the 12 bits yet?
Resolution of the auto measurements? 3200 'steps' vs. 200 'steps' over the screen height should be noticable.
Anyone Stopped a 1 to 1.5 Div. sine wave, and then tried to Y expand the stopped waveform to see if any more resolution appears, rather than just some of the original 200 screen pixels Y stretched.

A higher resolution ADC does not auotmatically mean any more measurement headhead outside of the display area. It all depends on how the range scaling works.

[StillTrying]

I definitely mean Y auto measurements within the screen area, such as the peak, or peak to peak amplitude.

Assuming 0.5V/Div. 4V over the whole screen...

8 bit resolution
1.00 V
1.02
1.04
1.06

12-bit resolution - about 1 more decimal place, which will be noise.
1.000 V
1.00125
1.0025
1.00373
1.005

I'm not sure if the Siglent uses real data or screen pictures for the on-screen measurements,

It uses the 0-255 values for the Y auto measurements, values 13-243 (1/2 Div off the top or bottom of the screen) are useable.

[balnazzar]

- There is no 12 bit mode on the rigol, the rigol is a 12 bit scope..

Right.

Anyhow.. Bugger. A weak FFT and no bode plots kinda break the deal. Let's wait and see what a statistically significant population of new owners say; particularly about bugs.

[VK3DRB]

They don't specifically want someone to hack it, because all the component designators are missing. I don't know why, because there is plenty of space for them. The debug people would be peeved. Speaking of which the board lacks test points. Clearly they don't do ICT and probably do minimal testing.

The track layout seems really good, with length tuning and differential pair impedance control.

Their pin 1 markers are inconsistent. Some are missing from IC's. I almost always use triangles as pin 1 markers. Much better than round dots for a number of reasons: Readability, prevent ambiguity, distinguishes from fly vomit and test points and vias.

[EEVblog]

I hate to ask, but has anyone found the 12 bits yet?
Resolution of the auto measurements? 3200 'steps' vs. 200 'steps' over the screen height should be noticable.
Anyone Stopped a 1 to 1.5 Div. sine wave, and then tried to Y expand the stopped waveform to see if any more resolution appears, rather than just some of the original 200 screen pixels Y stretched.

Here is 1 division and 1/2 division 5Vpp sine wave stopped and expanded.

[EEVblog]

0.5Vpp signal captured on 2V/div range and expanded.
The scope stop at 20mV/div expansion, it won't let you select lower than that. So looks like it's smart enough to know there is no extra data beyond that, so no point looking blocky like you showed above. Very nice.

[tautech]

Here is 1 division and 1/2 division 5Vpp sine wave stopped and expanded.

Really ?

Prerelease SDS1204X HD
1 Mhz, 5V p-p, Stop and zoom in.

[EEVblog]

Here is 1 division and 1/2 division 5Vpp sine wave stopped and expanded.

Really ?
Prerelease SDS1204X HD
1 Mhz, 5V p-p, Stop and zoom in.

Yes, showing the extra resolution available on the vertical from 1 div high capture as requested.
If you are talking about the noise, it's from a Siglent sig gen, straight coax, no 50ohm termination.
Can experiment more tomorrow, the point is to show the 12bit resolution is indeed available.

And a brief headroom check with an off-screen sine showed it doesn't have much headroom, not even one vertical setting.

[tautech]

Some more for comparison...now at 1V p-p

[Dacian]

Some more for comparison...now at 1V p-p

How was the second photo produced ?
An 8-bit oscilloscope will not have had the info to create what you have in the second image from the information captured in the first image.
 

[Dacian]

And a brief headroom check with an off-screen sine showed it doesn't have much headroom, not even one vertical setting.

That is as expected as the 12bit (4096) resolution is divided by 10 and displayed on 400 pixels so there is very little that will not fit on the screen rounded to 10 pixels.
You can do a 10x vertical zoom and you still have 1:1 pixel mapping.
Edit: actually looking at the image it seems they have 412 pixels for the waveform so there should be nothing outside the display area.

 Not sure what that not released SDS1204X-HD is but  it will need to be a 12bit oscilloscope to work as it is claimed in the above posts.  The second photo can of course be generated by changing the vertical resolution while in run mode then stop and take the photo.
So is either a 12bit oscilloscope or image was captured incorrectly.

[StillTrying]

The DHO814's x20 of a stopped waveform looks better than I was expecting.

The SDS1204XHD's screen plotting is higher resolution, might be better, diffcult to tell with the different speeds and rendering.

DHO814's waveform plotting area is 1000 x 412 pixels, the SDS1204XHD's is 844 x 480.

Don't know the SDS1204XHD's price.
I can't see the dark green.

[switchabl]

Timebase seems to be 200µs/div in one screenshot and 200ns/div in the other. Hard to compare in any meaningful way.

[Martin72]

Regarding the last posts here about the 12 bit resolution and what role the screen plays in this:
Can you read about this somewhere, is there some kind of "white paper" ?