Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown

[Warhawk]

Something also of note is that when you add the LA, the sample rate is halved again, so if you run 3 or four analogue channels and any number of LA channels. the maximum sample rate drops to 156.25MSa/s. Whether the trigger is on an analogue or digital channel didn't affect the maximum sample rate.

That's a bummer -- both, the sample rate restriction.....

I agree. Honestly, the scope is great value but after reading first user reports here I pass and go for a different option.

It cannot be a "great value" when you pass, though.. 

The prospective buyers (like you and me) .....

When I started building circuits as a boy, having an oscilloscope was out of the question. Even the first PIC programmer I had to build my own. Now, very useful tools and test equipment are available for the cost of a better cellphone that nearly every teenager has.
Unfortunately, I am not a kid anymore. I value my free time and want to use quality, frustration-free, tools if possible. Nevertheless, I believe there will be plenty of users just happy with the DHO8xx/DHO9xx. I had had DS1074z until recently. However, I will chip in slightly more and go for the other brand (for Christmas) that is believed to be more polished at time of the release.

[tautech]

Now, very useful tools and test equipment are available for the less than cost of a better cellphone that nearly every teenager has.

Correction made. 

[Antonio90]

Something also of note is that when you add the LA, the sample rate is halved again, so if you run 3 or four analogue channels and any number of LA channels. the maximum sample rate drops to 156.25MSa/s. Whether the trigger is on an analogue or digital channel didn't affect the maximum sample rate.

That's a bummer -- both, the sample rate restriction.....

I agree. Honestly, the scope is great value but after reading first user reports here I pass and go for a different option.

It cannot be a "great value" when you pass, though.. 

The prospective buyers (like you and me) should really wait a little bit till the first surge of "happiness" after the purchase of a new cute lovely gadget with VESA mount cools down (a buyer's psychology phenomenon) and people start to evaluate the stuff much more critically. I've seen only 1 statement in this forum the buyer indicated he will return the scope..

As I wrote before, this scope would be "a great value" when produced in 802/812/822 configuration only, at say $199/$249/$299, targeting explicitly the entry level segment (thus setting the expectation properly), moreover shipped without those most visible bugs (and I would perhaps tolerate the bugs knowing they will fix them soon). With adding another 2 channels and the LA and the AWG they simply overloaded the low cost tiny hw infrastructure of this scope, imho.

Even though it is a good value for the beginner, the people migrating from say their basic 2ch CRT scope to something more digital, and people requiring a 2nd, portable scope for occasional work battery powered, but - all the users here reviewing the scope are the advanced users - and it could easily be after a month or two many of them would consider this specific series a flop..

It can still be great value, at least for the 804 and 814. It works reasonably well AFAIK, and for les than 500€ after VAT you get a 4 channel scope, 12 bit resolution, and HDMI out.
I'm not sure about the 900 series though. The FRA (main use for the AWG) and the LA seem to have quite a few problems that prevent them from being truly useful.

Still, if the trigger, cursors, statistics, math, and FFT work alright, along with the 12 bits, the 800 series is a killer scope for the money, and great value for a beginner. Also, I think that with a new Rigol scope, the "flop" timeframe is longer than one or two months.

The 2 channel ones look pretty good for a second 12-bit basic scope too.

[Mechatrommer]

Now, very useful tools and test equipment are available for the less than cost of a better cellphone that nearly every teenager has.

Correction made. 

imho its useless to correct subjective matter. tools and TE are broad range from $50-50K, and same with smartphone can range $50-2K or 5K, so what is "useful" to anybody? kids can be more than happy with $50 tools but people on red carpet will only satisfy with $50K tools.

I had had DS1074z until recently. However, I will chip in slightly more and go for the other brand (for Christmas) that is believed to be more polished at time of the release.

if you can live with ds1054z, i dont understand why you cant live with dho800. for the longest time i've mourned for its laggy UI and keep remembering how responsive my ds1052e was. now i have dho804, no more laggy UI again and its 12bit, touchscreen, sharp LCD, downloading data to PC multiple time faster, saving full memory CSV to USB drive only take seconds instead of ages in 1054z. so i dont understand what are you expecting. from my quick play, dho804 is every bits better than ds1054z, except, i'm going to miss "Mode" button in trigger section to switch to "Normal" trigger mode quickly. I think the "Default" button below the "Single" (triggering) button is going to be the most useless button for me.

btw, we master our tools, we find way around to make it work the way we want. not the other way around, fwiw...

[Martin72]

I haven't finished my tests by a long shot, but the DHO804 makes the DS1054Z look really old, like something from another era.
It is also from another time...
At the moment, I consider the DHO804 to be the legitimate and worthy successor to the DS1054Z.

[ebastler]

if you can live with ds1054z, i dont understand why you cant live with dho800. for the longest time i've mourned for its laggy UI and keep remembering how responsive my ds1052e was. now i have dho804, no more laggy UI again and its 12bit, touchscreen, sharp LCD, downloading data to PC multiple time faster, saving full memory CSV to USB drive only take seconds instead of ages in 1054z. so i dont understand what are you expecting. from my quick play, dho804 is every bits better than ds1054z [...]

From my perspective -- also a DS1054Z user since shortly after its introduction -- yes, of course the DHO800 is significantly better in many respects, and not significantly worse anywhere. So I would clearly recommend the DHO to someone looking for their first scope in this price range today.

But the improvements of the DHO800 over the DS1054Z are probably not enough to make me buy a new scope. (Just as the improvements in the Siglent SDS1000X did not make me replace the Rigol). It's the additional AWG and logic inputs in the DHO914S, neither of which I have in the DS1054Z, which would have made me pull the trigger. So it is disappointing that these two features were implemented so half-heartedly.

[ebastler]

I think the "Default" button below the "Single" (triggering) button is going to be the most useless button for me.

Yes, I have wondered what Rigol were thinking there. A bit like placing a "Reset" button right in the middle of a computer keyboard...

Maybe they are heavily targeting education with these models and wanted a quick way for the lab instructor to sort out a messed-up scope? (Or to restart the student exercise "and now set everything up properly for your use case!"  )

[Warhawk]

if you can live with ds1054z, i dont understand why you cant live with dho800. for the longest time i've mourned for its laggy UI and keep remembering how responsive my ds1052e was. now i have dho804, no more laggy UI again and its 12bit, touchscreen, sharp LCD, downloading data to PC multiple time faster, saving full memory CSV to USB drive only take seconds instead of ages in 1054z. so i dont understand what are you expecting. from my quick play, dho804 is every bits better than ds1054z, except, i'm going to miss "Mode" button in trigger section to switch to "Normal" trigger mode quickly. I think the "Default" button below the "Single" (triggering) button is going to be the most useless button for me.

btw, we master our tools, we find way around to make it work the way we want. not the other way around, fwiw...

I sold the scope after release of the DHO series. I expect that the residual value of DS1000z scopes drops significantly. Additionally, I've been looking for something "better" for a while. It was the right time to sell.
I believe I can't live with DHO800 or 900 series because of:

• hot-glued SD card in the system makes me uncomfortable
• the UI does not support keyboard although the system does
• sample memory significantly drops when multiple channels are enabled. I use SPI frequently.
• the bode-plot is half baked and only option for the 900 series. I wish it communicated with the external AWG that I already have
• the screen size and the font is too small for my poor eyesight. It was annoying with DS1000z too. The HDMI option is a workaround, not a solution.
• I hate touchscreens
• The product has the look and feel of a concept vehicle rather then the production one. The fiasco with type-C chargers just demonstrates pure amateurism.

This is very personalized list. I am sure it won't apply to everyone.

I am also sure that many things get better over time. The DS1000z series had also bugs. Still, I give SDS2000x plus or SDS1000x HD chance (if ever released  ).

Please note that I am just sharing my thoughts. This is not an attempt to start a flame. I would still recommend DHO800 for someone with <500Eur budget.

[Mechatrommer]

It's the additional AWG and logic inputs in the DHO914S, neither of which I have in the DS1054Z, which would have made me pull the trigger. So it is disappointing that these two features were implemented so half-heartedly.

i'm guessing Bode plot is your butter and bread. reading forumers for the long time i have an impression Siglent is ahead in this area, as long as "built-in" AWG and Bode plot is concerned, or even descent FFT. but i choosed Rigol brand and nothing else mainly due to its PC Programmability through VISA driver. since ds1052e i've made a Bode plotter using external FG and DS1052E, but it proved that Bode plotting is not my area, so i never have a real need for it. but in case i need it, i know Rigol DSO is up for the task due to its programmability. Your Mileage May Vary.

hot-glued SD card in the system makes me uncomfortable

man this is a feature that i've been waiting for ages... there is no way to backup FW easily on previous Rigol's. some old but quality branded TE using this technique using CF card. i can agree with your other points. yes different people different needs.

[Fungus]

As I wrote before, this scope would be "a great value" when produced in 802/812/822 configuration only, at say $199/$249/$299

It's easily worth more than that compared to current 'scopes on the market.

The hardware is definitely there.

The 900-series seems to need a few fixes in the LA and bode areas but I don't think there's any showstoppers in the 800-series.

Nobody's forcing anybody to be an early adopter. Even the 'S' brand had some big problems on launch day. Tektronix recently launched an MSO but they didn't enable the logic analyzer yet because it wasn't finished. If you bought one you had to wait for the firmware to catch up.

With adding another 2 channels and the LA and the AWG they simply overloaded the low cost tiny hw infrastructure of this scope, imho.

That's just an opinion and not many other people are sharing it.

Feel free not to buy one if it's beneath you as a grown-up. I hear there's some nice ones in the $1500 range.

[Fungus]

Still, if the trigger, cursors, statistics, math, and FFT work alright, along with the 12 bits

I've had mine less than a week and all that seems to work nicely, plus the serial decoders, etc.

the 800 series is a killer scope for the money, and great value for a beginner.

Yep.

[Fungus]

I think the "Default" button below the "Single" (triggering) button is going to be the most useless button for me.

Yes, I have wondered what Rigol were thinking there. A bit like placing a "Reset" button right in the middle of a computer keyboard...

You have to confirm that's what you really want to do, so... 

Maybe they are heavily targeting education with these models and wanted a quick way for the lab instructor to sort out a messed-up scope? (Or to restart the student exercise "and now set everything up properly for your use case!"  )

Yep. Or in any environment where 'scopes are shared and you have no idea what state the previous user left it in.

It's probably very useful for telephone support, too.

nb. Other 'scopes have that button too (in green so it stands out and invites people to press it):

[Fungus]

I believe I can't live with DHO800 or 900 series because of:

* hot-glued SD card in the system makes me uncomfortable

You're imagining a scenario which will probably never happen. There's a LOT of devices out there that do this.

It makes me more comfortable knowing I own an unbrickable 'scope, one that I can hack to my heart's content with zero risk.

* the UI does not support keyboard although the system does

Huh? That's something you've never had and you reject a new 'scope because it doesn't have it?

You'd prefer a 'scope that only has a twisty knob for everything?? An on-screen keyboard is a major step up from that.

sample memory significantly drops when multiple channels are enabled. I use SPI frequently.

Yeah, that's weird. I'm holding out for a hack to give the DHO800 the memory sizes of the DHO900 which will then beat everything else in this price range (10MPts per channel with all 4 channels on)

The screen size and the font is too small for my poor eyesight. It was annoying with DS1000z too. The HDMI option is a workaround, not a solution.

At least you have a workaround where you didn't have one before. 

[Fungus]

some old but quality branded TE using this technique using CF card.

Or even internal hard disks.

[ebastler]

I think the "Default" button below the "Single" (triggering) button is going to be the most useless button for me.

Yes, I have wondered what Rigol were thinking there. A bit like placing a "Reset" button right in the middle of a computer keyboard...

You have to confirm that's what you really want to do, so... 

Agree, there is not a high risk of creating havoc unintentionally. But it feels like wasted real estate, on a crammed front panel where they already had to sacrifice some buttons. (E.g. Horizontal Zoom and Vernier share the same, and toggling between normal/auto triggering does not have a direct button I understand.)

As mentioned earlier by HowardLong, it would be nice if Rigol could make this a configurable "User Default" -- so you can define it to reset to 10x probes on all channels, for example.

[ebastler]

The 900-series seems to need a few fixes in the LA and bode areas

Let's hope the Bode plot wiggles can be fixed in software (rather being due to the crosstalk (?) issue from AWG into the channels which I saw described somewhere here). Enabling SPI decoding on the digital channels should clearly be a software fix.

I am still on the fence regarding the reduced sample rate when digital + analog are combined. How often will I need large bandwidth on multiple analog channels while using the logic analyzer? I think what annoys me most is the dishonesty of not disclosing this in the datasheet. (Which specifies the sampling rate vs. number of analog channels in detail.)

But I am really disappointed with the ridiculous fallback to 1 Mpts memory per analog channel when digital + analog are combined. Why, Rigol ?!? 

[asmi]

I am still on the fence regarding the reduced sample rate when digital + analog are combined. How often will I need large bandwidth on multiple analog channels while using the logic analyzer? I think what annoys me most is the dishonesty of not disclosing this in the datasheet. (Which specifies the sampling rate vs. number of analog channels in detail.)

From the practical standpoint, I have a suspicion that you will run into signal intergity problems with LA way before you run into sample rate limit. PC-based LAs are still far superior to anything I've seen in scopes, even though I do have a mixed-mode scope, it was years ago last time I used LA.

[ebastler]

From the practical standpoint, I have a suspicion that you will run into signal intergity problems with LA way before you run into sample rate limit. PC-based LAs are still far superior to anything I've seen in scopes, even though I do have a mixed-mode scope, it was years ago last time I used LA.

You mean limitations on the digital decoding due to sampling rate limits on those channels? I understand that the digital part can always sample at 625 MSa/s in the DHO900, while the analog channels drop down to 156 MSa/s when all channels are used. Having said that, I do remember discussions about other (Rigol?) scopes which required a surprisingly high sampling rate, relative to the signal clock, to do a decent decoding job.

Memory size and GUI aside, why would PC-based LAs be better than those in MSOs when it comes to signal integrity and decoding? Is it "just" because the designers spent more thought on decoding data streams with relatively low sampling rates?

[asmi]

Memory size and GUI aside, why would PC-based LAs be better than those in MSOs when it comes to signal integrity and decoding? Is it "just" because the designers spent more thought on decoding data streams with relatively low sampling rates?

They are not, SI issues are an end-user problem, nothing designers can do about it. But they are better at other aspects (higher-quality and more convenient software, larger screen, better controls, secondary processing abilities due to virtually infinite memory/software, etc.), which is why on balance I prefer PC-based LAs, and LA in my MSO hasn't been in use for years.

[Fungus]

I got one of those $1 phone stylus things yesterday to try with the 'scope.

It works really well, much more accurate than a finger. Also ideal for people who are paranoid about fingerprints.

[Warhawk]

I believe I can't live with DHO800 or 900 series because of:

* hot-glued SD card in the system makes me uncomfortable

You're imagining a scenario which will probably never happen. There's a LOT of devices out there that do this.

It makes me more comfortable knowing I own an unbrickable 'scope, one that I can hack to my heart's content with zero risk.

* the UI does not support keyboard although the system does

Huh? That's something you've never had and you reject a new 'scope because it doesn't have it?

You'd prefer a 'scope that only has a twisty knob for everything?? An on-screen keyboard is a major step up from that.

sample memory significantly drops when multiple channels are enabled. I use SPI frequently.

Yeah, that's weird. I'm holding out for a hack to give the DHO800 the memory sizes of the DHO900 which will then beat everything else in this price range (10MPts per channel with all 4 channels on)

The screen size and the font is too small for my poor eyesight. It was annoying with DS1000z too. The HDMI option is a workaround, not a solution.

At least you have a workaround where you didn't have one before. 

Look, the only person that knows better what I want is my spouse.

[Mechatrommer]

I think the "Default" button below the "Single" (triggering) button is going to be the most useless button for me.

Yes, I have wondered what Rigol were thinking there. A bit like placing a "Reset" button right in the middle of a computer keyboard...

not just that one, there is also reset switch on quick menu on top right of the screen at least give me "Normal" mode triggering on that quick menu.. and those tiny scrolling window, i think i can accidentally click the default while trying to scroll to other functions.

Maybe they are heavily targeting education with these models and wanted a quick way for the lab instructor to sort out a messed-up scope? (Or to restart the student exercise "and now set everything up properly for your use case!"  )

default to the smallest vertical scale (50mV/div iirc) is not wise anyway imho... what if student come and probe mains, something may irreversibly overloaded if unlucky... who knows what china's metric (i mean QC or the sort) cant do?

Also ideal for people who are paranoid about fingerprints.

if they cannot deal with IPA to clean LCD, cross stitch is a better hobby. but yeah, large thumbprint is an issue causing inaccurate clicking..

[Howardlong]

PC-based LAs are still far superior to anything I've seen in scopes, even though I do have a mixed-mode scope, it was years ago last time I used LA.

It's horses for courses: they are different beasts. I use both, and frankly I'm more likely to find myself using the scope.

PC based LAs typically have very limited triggering facilities and lower sample rates than scopes offer. The benefit of having direct time correlation also should not be forgotten.

However, PC based LA tend to have much deeper memory, but this, compared with their limited triggering facilities, means that analysis often done in a more offline fashion, rather than interactively as you'd do with a scope.

With advanced triggering techniques and segmented memory offered on a scope, the need for an unlimited supply of memory for post processing is diminished.

[Howardlong]

From the practical standpoint, I have a suspicion that you will run into signal intergity problems with LA way before you run into sample rate limit. PC-based LAs are still far superior to anything I've seen in scopes, even though I do have a mixed-mode scope, it was years ago last time I used LA.

I use the Magnivu feature on the MDO3000/4000 series fairly often. It's a feature of the digital channels that goes down to 121.2ns resolution on the 3000, and 60.6ps on the 4000, but limited to 10k points. I believe it's implemented in a high speed shift register. It's implemented with a set of latches hooked up to a long delay line of buffers. This is particularly useful for rapidly assessing setup and hold timings.

If you're concerned about signal integrity problems, an LA is an especially blunt tool.

[asmi]

PC based LAs typically have very limited triggering facilities and lower sample rates than scopes offer.

Modern PC-based LA have UNLIMITED triggering capabilities because they can stream data to software in real time. The only limitation is software, but that is an easy problem to solve.

The benefit of having direct time correlation also should not be forgotten.

I can't remember ever needing this in like 10 years I have an MSO. I'm not interested in theory, I'm looking at it strictly from practical standpoint. I thought it would be useful (which is why I bought an MSO), but in 10 years I never needed it, and if I ever will need it, I'm sure I will come up with some solution that does not involve paying a ton of extra money for MSO.

With advanced triggering techniques and segmented memory offered on a scope, the need for an unlimited supply of memory for post processing is diminished.

Nothing beats real-time data streaming, no segmented memory not any triggering is going to replace grep. Or Python. Or C#. Or <insert your favourite data analysis language>.