UK forum members, BREXIT?

[donotdespisethesnake]

Yeah, piss off the entire EU by making them lose big money due to ongoing uncertainty. That's a good start for the UK to get really good conditions in the future negotiations 

The EU have repeatedly threatened the UK with "punitive measures" if we democratically decided to leave - and consistently refused to engage in real reform.

So, yeah, let's piss off the EU as much as possible. 

There's several other EU states that might follow the UK example - so the EU would do better to listen rather than threaten.

[grumpydoc]

Yeah, piss off the entire EU by making them lose big money due to ongoing uncertainty. That's a good start for the UK to get really good conditions in the future negotiations 

What is the "uncertainty"?  We are leaving the EU, that's that.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/14/investing/brexit-how-much-us-stocks-fall/index.html?iid=ob_quote_footer

Other governments in the European Union are also unhappy that Cameron jumped ship before signing the exit documents, leaving that job to his successor. Now there will be an extended period of uncertainty (if the UK are really leaving or not) and that will hurt the economy even more.

I can see Cameron's point of view: he was part of the campaign to remain in Europe, so he doesn't feel as though he should guide the UK through exiting the EU.

Cameron resigned to avoid a vote of no confidence which a) he won't want as the last thing on his record as prime minister and b) would not have been good for stability. He also won't want actually involving article 50 on his record either given that he is pretty pro Europe.

But the very fact that Europe is so keen for us to get on with it should give us cause to pause. We should get on with it, certainly, but we should concentrate on the best solution for the UK and this looks like a bargaining chip we should not squander. Especially as it is clear no one is keen on making it easy for us.

[doobedoobedo]

All the treateds ot trade that have Uk are with EU, when you had decided to exit EU all the trateds are nulls and have to negociate since 0, not only with EU else  with at all world(Usa,Canada, China).

Enjoy TTIP when the EU hands over your sovereignty to US corporations.

The EU has no deal with China   

I already have all the maple syrup I can eat

[apis]

So, yeah, let's piss off the EU as much as possible. 

Dude! Way to stick it to the man!

[DimitriP]

Here is the EU in slow motion.....

[jancumps]

What surprises me is that the British leadership is now starting to build a power transition and action plan.
You'd expect when you propose such a big change, there would be a roadmap ready for both outcomes.
The leaders of both camps are from the very same political party. Haven't they talked things trough?

They'd better start googling now how the process works.

[grumpydoc]

What surprises me is that the British leadership is now starting to build a power transition and action plan.
You'd expect when you propose such a big change, there would be a roadmap ready for both outcomes.
The leaders of both camps are from the very same political party. Haven't they talked things trough?

They'd better start googling now how the process works.

It is increasingly obvious that no one actually expected that the vote would be to leave the EU, it's flying by the seat of their pants time.

[Delta]

Enjoy TTIP when the EU hands over your sovereignty to US corporations.

Yip.  And there looks like there's going to be nothing the European people nor even EU elected politicians can do to stop it.  THAT is the arrogant autocratic shit from which we have voted to escape.

I do not take my mandate from the European people.

[wraper]

Yeah, piss off the entire EU by making them lose big money due to ongoing uncertainty. That's a good start for the UK to get really good conditions in the future negotiations 

What is the "uncertainty"?  We are leaving the EU, that's that.

Uncertainty is that Cameron and Boris Johnson too, told they are not in hurry to exit at all. Maybe will start to think about it "sometime". And that is f....g prickery in it's nature. If you decided you exit, then exit, don't put all of the EU in uncertain position for a decade. Otherwise it like standing in the door, refusing going out and closing it finally, but instead pissing in the room for owner's appreciation.

[MK14]

Yeah, piss off the entire EU by making them lose big money due to ongoing uncertainty. That's a good start for the UK to get really good conditions in the future negotiations 

What is the "uncertainty"?  We are leaving the EU, that's that.

Uncertainty is that Cameron and Boris Johnson too, told they are not in hurry to exit at all. Maybe will start to think about it "sometime". And that is f....g prickery in it's nature. If you decided you exit, then exit, don't put all of the EU in uncertain position for a decade. Otherwise it like standing in the door, refusing going out and closing it finally, but instead pissing in the room for owner's appreciation.

My understanding is that making all the arrangements is going to be a very long and complicated process. Perhaps taking many, many years to complete.
Given all the DIFFICULT negotiations, I'm not going to be at all surprised at it taking a long time.

I also understand that (quietly) behind closed doors, the negotiations, discussions and details are already taking place (soon).
E.g. There are various meetings, both in the UK and EU, discussing what is going on, and planned to happen.

Since we are the first BIG EU exiting country (if I understand things correctly, but there was the odd, small thing here and there before, ages ago), it will probably take even longer.

[jancumps]

We 'll know on day one of this week's EU summit when the article50 will be announced.
Talks will also commence immediately.

I think that the background diplomatic negotiations are already full speed at this very moment.

[wraper]

The only real quantifiable detail in the article is a provision that gives negotiators two years from the date of article 50 notification to conclude new arrangements. Failure to do so results in the exiting state falling out of the EU with no new provisions in place, unless every one of the remaining EU states agrees to extend the negotiations.

No country has ever invoked article 50 – yet.

[rstofer]

It's odd that the founding members of the EU want to expedite the UK's exit while at the same time addressing the issues that caused it.  Like once the UK is gone, they'll fix things.  It's almost like they intended to drive the UK out before they made changes.

This is going to be a challenging time.  I wonder what Parliament is going to do about the petition for a 'do-over' referendum?  Are they going to take it up?  Are they just going to talk about it on Tuesday and leave it lie?  Should there be a 'do-over'?  How many 'do-overs' are allowed under UK law?  Is there a EU law that regulates 'do-overs'?

[TimFox]

Some of the discussion about election demographics (younger voters want to remain, older voters want to leave) and "voter remorse" that have appeared on this side of the ocean remind me of the opinion I have about painting brickwork.
It's like killing your spouse:
1.  It's not really a good idea.
2.  Before you do, make sure you really want to do it, since you can't reverse the process.

[MK14]

It's odd that the founding members of the EU want to expedite the UK's exit while at the same time addressing the issues that caused it.  Like once the UK is gone, they'll fix things.  It's almost like they intended to drive the UK out before they made changes.

This is going to be a challenging time.  I wonder what Parliament is going to do about the petition for a 'do-over' referendum?  Are they going to take it up?  Are they just going to talk about it on Tuesday and leave it lie?  Should there be a 'do-over'?  How many 'do-overs' are allowed under UK law?  Is there a EU law that regulates 'do-overs'?

Unless there is a REALLY BIG change in circumstances, there will almost certainly be NO repeat of the referendum, in the next few years.

The votes happened officially, so that's it!
Done and dusted.

EDIT:
If the EU try and fix things AFTER we have left. It is probably because they are worried that other EU countries may also hold referendums, with similar results. Resulting in many exiting EU countries, and perhaps the end of the existing EU organisation.

[jancumps]

It's odd that the founding members of the EU want to expedite the UK's exit while at the same time addressing the issues that caused it.  Like once the UK is gone, they'll fix things.  It's almost like they intended to drive the UK out before they made changes.

If you follow that logic, you could also say that UK intentionally tried to weaken the EU for years while they where in, because they knew they were going to leave.
Neither of the two happened.

[jancumps]

It's odd that the founding members of the EU want to expedite the UK's exit while at the same time addressing the issues that caused it.  Like once the UK is gone, they'll fix things.  It's almost like they intended to drive the UK out before they made changes.

This is going to be a challenging time.  I wonder what Parliament is going to do about the petition for a 'do-over' referendum?  Are they going to take it up?  Are they just going to talk about it on Tuesday and leave it lie?  Should there be a 'do-over'?  How many 'do-overs' are allowed under UK law?  Is there a EU law that regulates 'do-overs'?

Unless there is a REALLY BIG change in circumstances, there will almost certainly be NO repeat of the referendum.

The votes happened officially, so that's it!
Done and dusted.

I also think this. Neither the UK citizens nor the EU citizens would accept that the outcome would be ignored or challenged.

In the UK, I'd expect big protests if the governement wouldn't decide for leave now.

In EU, I'd expect them to refuse if the UK wants to stay.

[rstofer]

It's odd that the founding members of the EU want to expedite the UK's exit while at the same time addressing the issues that caused it.  Like once the UK is gone, they'll fix things.  It's almost like they intended to drive the UK out before they made changes.

If you follow that logic, you could also say that UK intentionally tried to weaken the EU for years while they where in, because they knew they were going to leave.
Neither of the two happened.

I don't think that 'free movement' was ever a best seller with the UK.  Clearly they wanted to keep control of their currency.  It's like having your feet on opposite sides of a stream.  You're going to get wet!

[jancumps]

...  It's like having your feet on opposite sides of a stream.  ...

of the channel, you mean

[apis]

It's odd that the founding members of the EU want to expedite the UK's exit

Everyone just want to dispel any uncertainty in order to limit the damage to the economy, so things stabilize as quickly as possible. It's common sense that the UK helps with this since it's also in their best interest.

[apis]

It's odd that the founding members of the EU want to expedite the UK's exit while at the same time addressing the issues that caused it.  Like once the UK is gone, they'll fix things.  It's almost like they intended to drive the UK out before they made changes.

This is going to be a challenging time.  I wonder what Parliament is going to do about the petition for a 'do-over' referendum?  Are they going to take it up?  Are they just going to talk about it on Tuesday and leave it lie?  Should there be a 'do-over'?  How many 'do-overs' are allowed under UK law?  Is there a EU law that regulates 'do-overs'?

Unless there is a REALLY BIG change in circumstances, there will almost certainly be NO repeat of the referendum.

The votes happened officially, so that's it!
Done and dusted.

I also think this. Neither the UK citizens nor the EU citizens would accept that the outcome would be ignored or challenged.

In the UK, I'd expect big protests if the governement wouldn't decide for leave now.

In EU, I'd expect them to refuse if the UK wants to stay.

Yes, I believe so as well.

[Augustus]

But the very fact that Europe is so keen for us to get on with it should give us cause to pause. We should get on with it, certainly, but we should concentrate on the best solution for the UK and this looks like a bargaining chip we should not squander. Especially as it is clear no one is keen on making it easy for us.

Sorry Mr. Grumpydoc, it was the wish of the UK people to leave, the EU wanted you to stay. Now, *poof*, congratulations, your wish was granted. Now, please, leave us asap to minimize any hassle on either side. There is already a lot of money burned by your action, not only in the EU but all around the world. Any further delay wont make you any friends.

[rch]

Enjoy TTIP when the EU hands over your sovereignty to US corporations.

Yip.  And there looks like there's going to be nothing the European people nor even EU elected politicians can do to stop it.  THAT is the arrogant autocratic shit from which we have voted to escape.

I do not take my mandate from the European people.

Like our Brexit voters you do not seem to realise that TTIP is exactly what the majority of EU state government, most especially the UK government, want.   The reason the EU appears anti-democratic is because it is doing exactly what national governments want, and national governments find it convenient to use the EU as an alibi for doing the neo-liberals'  bidding.  Either because they think it is a good idea or simply for bribes.  In this country most government ministers and top civil servants get hugely overpaid 'consultancy' jobs with big corporations after they leave office.  The EU doesn't 'dictate' anything (except perhaps to small or poor countries), it does exactly what the big states want it to do. 

[Augustus]

There's several other EU states that might follow the UK example - so the EU would do better to listen rather than threaten.

Well, that's understandable from your side of view. Hoping that others follow to make your own move look less foolish. It certainly is a possibility. But I wouldn't hold my breath. The divorce will be painful for the UK, for all others to see. Best of luck.

[jancumps]

The government should be ready anyways. It's not that this vote was an unscheduled event.