DSOX2000 and 3000 series - licence , have anyone tried to hack that scope ?

[MarkL]

Why do you think the Teledyne part is an attenuator?  I see that physically it looks like an A150 and the pinout looks right, but I'm not figuring how it could be used in this circuit.

Referring to the picture Scope-07.jpg here:

  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dsox2000-and-3000-series-licence-have-anyone-tried-to-hack-that-scope/msg985356/#msg985356

And attached below is the underside of that area.  It looks to me like it's only switching the terminator resistor in and out of circuit.

On the <=500MHz, it would seem K203 and R218 do this task but they are unpopulated in the 1GHz.  500MHz photos here:

  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dsox2000-and-3000-series-licence-have-anyone-tried-to-hack-that-scope/msg983501/#msg983501


Perhaps the Teledyne relay is based on the A150 part, but it's been customized with no attenuator section.  I think it's just a relay.

Opening a MSO/DSO3104A and checking when the coil is engaged could confirm this theory (no need to take off the shield can).


EDIT: This is wrong.  It is an attenuator.  Read on...

[Howardlong]

If you look at this post from Mike https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dsox2000-and-3000-series-licence-have-anyone-tried-to-hack-that-scope/msg1111386/#msg1111386

You'll see this pic:



and in another pic showing the underside, and the following post showing the unpopulated version, it's a six pinner: I was expecting to see an eight pin device, i.e., dpdt relay.



Being only a six pinner got my head scratching, but then looking through the Teledyne catalogue I came across the A150 series, and the part number on the side of the part links in with the data sheet part numbers.

http://www.teledynerelays.com/pdf/electromechanical/a150.pdf

This is for the 3000T though, not the 3000A

How does that sound?

[memset]

Why do you think the Teledyne part is an attenuator?

That's definitely an attenuator. In 1GHz model 50Ohm terminated DC path completely bypasses default R-L-C attenuation network and switches to this Teledyne relay for -20dB and to direct path for zero attenuation). Also, alternative input pins are used in frontend ASIC. That's why datasheet max vertical range is different for <1Ghz and 1GHz models at 50Ohm.

Also true what this 1GHz path could be tested without Teledynes on high vertical gains only (there will be loss of signal for attenuated path). I was too lazy to test all of this. I also need this scope to be assembled and ready for use.

[PlainName]

and in another pic showing the underside, and the following post showing the unpopulated version, it's a six pinner

I don't think it is showing the underside - looks to me like it's showing the top, just not populated.

If you check the two vias, no matter how you turn the board over they can't migrate from bottom left to top right. Just a small point of order

[memset]

Small note: K501 relay is used to switch between 50 Ohm DC path and anything else on 1 GHz version. That's why K501 is missing (short in predefined position) on lower BW models. K503 is not used in 1GHz because K501 already switches input path to 50Ohm termination (directly or via Teledyne). Big termination resistor is also replaced to sit at the end of signal path.

[MarkL]

How does that sound?

Sounds right.  I'm sure they used the same relay for the A and T.  And the photo with the part number is particularly telling.  I looked for a photo with the number but I missed it.

I'm wrong.  Thanks everyone for the explanations.

[Howardlong]

and in another pic showing the underside, and the following post showing the unpopulated version, it's a six pinner

I don't think it is showing the underside - looks to me like it's showing the top, just not populated.

If you check the two vias, no matter how you turn the board over they can't migrate from bottom left to top right. Just a small point of order

There were two pics I referred to (in addition to the top pic) only the second one I showed. If you follow the link I gave to Mike's post you'll see it, but here it is for completeness.

[TheSteve]

So who has a DSOX/MSOX3104A/T and is brave enough to measure a few critical parts for the greater good?
What if I throw in a bribe to make it happen?

[PlainName]

only the second one I showed

OK. Sorry for misreading it.

[HighVoltage]

So who has a DSOX/MSOX3104A/T and is brave enough to measure a few critical parts for the greater good?
What if I throw in a bribe to make it happen?

Do you have a list of values you need and a picture of where they are located?

[TheSteve]

So who has a DSOX/MSOX3104A/T and is brave enough to measure a few critical parts for the greater good?
What if I throw in a bribe to make it happen?

Do you have a list of values you need and a picture of where they are located?

I will confirm the list we need with memset and post when we're done.

[arlvaljr]

Does anyone stil can provide the original update file "3000XSeries.01.10.2011031600.cab?

I want an opportunity to check its contents.

Thanks

[memset]

Do you have a list of values you need and a picture of where they are located?

Hello! I'll prepare some pictures on this weekend.

[memset]

Here is a list of unknown AFE caps for 1 GHz AFE.
Look for red dots on pictures to find them.

Where are 3 on bottom layer, two near Teledyne (of the same value, suspected to be like 0.1uF) and one near 50 Ohm termination resistor. I suspect it to be 0.01 - 0.1 uF.

On the top layer there are 5 unknown caps. 4 of them are on the anti-aliasing filter. I suspect them to be in single picofarad range so a very good cap meter is required to measure them). Also I think they are two pairs of equal value, but that's not necessary true. 5th cap is near big relays. It should be in ~100 pF range, but maybe anything around 1pF - 1000pF.

[memset]

Among other parts required for 1GHz upgrade are:
1. 3x inductors, suspected to be 6.8nH Coilcraft - from 0603CS or 0603HP series.
2. 1x BAV99 diode.
3. 1x HSMP-3892 RF pin diode.
4. 1x MMBF0201NL N-channel logic FET (replace with anything in SOT-23 with 300mA / 20V, 1.7V Gth and <1 Ohm Rds_on). Like IRLML2402, etc.
5. 1x A150-20-12 Teledyne attenuator relay.
6. Caps
7. Resistors

Not included are strapping resistors and a subset of parts originally required for 200Mhz to 500 MHz upgrade.

[adranp]

I have added some points of interest on my front-end pictures among others :memset already highlighted.

:memset - From your list of other components can you place them on my image and see if what I highlighted might be of interest ?

[adranp]

Also there are plenty of resistors changed or which should be added.

:Memset Do you think we can easily find their values or should we think about highlighting them for measurement also?

[adranp]

Also I'm able to report now that the 350Mhz/500Mhz works as previously reported for 3000A.

I have modded one of my channels and here are some tests. Haven't been able to close the scope or user calibrate it though.

Images are after strapping and two tests at 350Mhz one on an unmodded channel and one on the modded channel.

[memset]

:Memset Do you think we can easily find their values or should we think about highlighting them for measurement also?

All resistors are directly marked, nothing but a good photo is required to identify them. And the photos are already here.

[adranp]

There is a resistor (??) missing in the lower bandwidth configs near the AD8034 and it has no marking (I've highlighted it in my pic).
Or is it another component there?

Thanks.

[memset]

There is a resistor (??) missing in the lower bandwidth configs near the AD8034 and it has no marking (I've highlighted it in my pic).

I can't see the pic but I've got your point. It's the same part as two on other side of afe block (near two big caps). Could be power inductor for relay.
This component is not required to be tested on 1 GHz model because its present on all models.

[adranp]

In my 3014T this component I'm talking about is missing (not-populated). I've reattached the image maybe you can see it now.

[memset]

Yes, that's the part I was talking about.
BTW, do you have a good picture of the bottom layer of your AFE zone?
I've browsed a pile of photos and I see there are no good close up pic of the back side of <1GHz T-model.

[adranp]

Here's a high-res back AFE zone. I have more in different lighting angles. Let me know if this suits your needs or I'll prepare an archive with few of them and put it online.

[memset]

Here's a high-res back AFE zone. I have more in different lighting angles. Let me know if this suits your needs or I'll prepare an archive with few of them and put it online.

Good enough, but somewhat worse than your superb photo of the top layer. The interesting part is readable, but being on the periphery its blurred and causes some dizziness while looked at narrowly.
Do you have a better (not blurred) photo of this zone (to be consistent with your top layer photo):