UK forum members, BREXIT?

[Fraser]

The UK's greatest challenge today, post BREXIT, is to find a group of politicians worthy and capable of running the country as it should be run, in order to prosper. Decent high quality politicians can be a rare commodity these days !

Fraser

[Simon]

The UK's greatest challenge today, post BREXIT, is to find a group of politicians worthy and capable of running the country as it should be run, in order to prosper. Decent high quality politicians can be a rare commodity these days !

Fraser

the problem is we are stuck with this lot for another 4 years. Unless we have a snap election which I think is what we ahould have. We chose to leave, not which party will lead us in leaving or which dick head is prime minister.

[jancumps]

The UK's greatest challenge today, post BREXIT, is to find a group of politicians worthy and capable of running the country as it should be run, in order to prosper. Decent high quality politicians can be a rare commodity these days !

Fraser

the problem is we are stuck with this lot for another 4 years. Unless we have a snap election which I think is what we ahould have. We chose to leave, not which party will lead us in leaving or which dick head is prime minister.

e
You did, a good year ago.

[Simon]

the problem is we are stuck with this lot for another 4 years. Unless we have a snap election which I think is what we ahould have. We chose to leave, not which party will lead us in leaving or which dick head is prime minister.

e
You did, a good year ago.

I know, on a slim majority.

[Jeroen3]

Across the channel it looks like the united kingdoms are having a revolution.

[Fraser]

I note in a previous post concern regarding war or military conflict in Europe after BREXIT.

My last role in the Office was as a World threat analyst. I can say with some confidence that whilst the EU may fragment, NATO will not. People should not confuse EU membership with NATO membership. One revolves around money, the other around border security. I have no issues with the Russian people, but Mr Putin has ensured that many countries are currently fearful of him and his plans for expansion. NATO is as strong and bonded as it has ever been.

As to Britain and 'Ruling the Waves'....... Fair comment. Our Royal Navy has not been immune to the austerity measures that have been imposed due to poor financial decisions by the Banks etc. We are down, but not out.

I must be careful what I say but there is a bit of a surprise in store when our latest aircraft carrier sets sail on her maiden deployment.

What people need to realise is that, like myself, we Britons are not always money centric. We were/are a proud country that sometimes makes tough decisions and follows the more difficult path that is morally or nationally right, rather than financially lucrative. I am proud of that trait. Money can indeed be the root of all evil.

As to our special relationship with the USA, again I am careful what I say, but from first hand experience I can confirm that there is a VERY special relationship with us on the Diplomatic, Military and counter terrorism front. That is still rock solid as it is mutually beneficial.

Fraser

[nctnico]

What people need to realise is that, like myself, we Britons are not always money centric. We were/are a proud country that sometimes makes tough decisions and follows the more difficult path that is morally or nationally right, rather than financially lucrative. I am proud of that trait.

Just wait until the less fortunate get an empty stomage and see how they feel about taking the more difficult path. I still recall the massive riots during Thatcher's 'rule' because people lost their jobs. 
People have to eat and that takes a working economy to begin with. In this day & age a working economy for a small country (yes, the UK is a small country) means being part of economic aliances like the EU.

[Fraser]

Nctnico,

We shall agree to differ. I do not foresee the Armageddon that you seem to predict within the UK as a realistic view. We are a small but potent country, like it or not, we can be VERY resilient. The Thatcher years and Miners Strike etc, are not a good example of how the UK operates. I lived through those years.... It was a war between our Government and the Labour Unions. The Falkland Conflict was very controversial but our response caught the Argentinians completely by surprise. They expected us to roll over and accept their actions unchallenged. Never underestimate a Briton, we can often surprise our adversaries.

You describe us as a "small" country, true, but as I said we can be a potent country as well. It is all about the make up and attitude of the population, not the square metre area of the turf We are a centre of excellence in technology and engineering. If we are as insignificant as some would like to believe, why has our decision spread shock waves across the World markets and political arena ?

I welcome overseas workers in the UK, provided they have something to offer rather than just abusing our hospitality. We have enough problems without importing new ones ! I am a Briton to the heart and proud of it. I worked for my Government to advance our countries interests. I am a patriot but that does not make me narrow minded or wrong to want the UK to stand alone when it comes to its governance and leadership.

It is unrealistic to believe a small country must be part of the EU in order to prosper. The EU is not the panacea to success that some may think. Not all countries are the same or offer the same capabilities

Finally, In my job I worked closely with the EU in Brussels on specialist topics. We were seen as the experts in our field yet I was mortified at some of what I witnessed around the meeting table when there.

Fraser

[Galenbo]

EU members announced they'll hold the first meetings without UK on the summit next week.

And the French at least will be keen to punish the UK pour encourager les autres.

Fascist/Nazi regimes are known for punishing their unfollowers very hard, cant stand their loss, even if minor, like a true psychopath, and can only answer this kind of situations with more oppression and control.
I hope the whole construction collapses fast, and I don't care witch fabricated "amount" of worthless "money" my house will be worth.

[jitter]

One thing is for sure, whether one agrees with leaving the EU or not, taking such a decision took balls, and I respect that.
It is time for change, and there's no way around that now, not just for the UK, for the EU and the rest of the world as well.

[nctnico]

You describe us as a "small" country, true, but as I said we can be a potent country as well. It is all about the make up and attitude of the population, not the square metre area of the turf We are a centre of excellence in technology and engineering. If we are as insignificant as some would like to believe, why has our decision spread shock waves across the World markets and political arena ?

Well the situation in Greece send similar shock waves through the world markets and political arena.
BTW I used to work for a company in the NL which obliterated an entire branch of the telecom industry in the UK within a couple of years. So how does that work for excellence in technology and engineering?

Edit: name one thing the UK is better at nowadays than all the other countries in the EU! Englisch breakfast and oldest Queen don't count 

[Galenbo]

I bet that in ten years time Germany and Turkey are the only ones remaining in the EU.

That is the best post in this whole thread! 

Together with some ghettos hellholes like Brussels, London and Paris.

[Galenbo]

... why has our decision spread shock waves across the World markets and political arena ?...

It's only the self-serving BIGSTATE political arena with their ever-growing bureaucracy, their controlled globalist World marked and their subsidized Media that is shook up.
For the rest, nobody cares.

I just did a real-de-facto-purchase of real-de-facto-goods in a real-de-facto company in the UK for +-3K euro.
Just like I did last year, and just like I did in the Eighties, before EU became TOTALCONTROLL.

[Fraser]

Nctnico,

Greece is not in any way the same situation as UK. Surely you can see that ? Even our Greek friends on this forum say that their Government squandered their money and they needed to be bailed out with massive loans. Of course that would send shock waves through the financial world. A country was on the brink of financial implosion........and it used the Euro. This was an unheard of situation caused by mismanagement at Government level and being locked into the Euro.

Last time I checked, the U.K. Was not asking for bail out funds from the EU due to being bankrupt, or using the locked in Euro see the difference

With regard to the telecoms industry...... I was not aware that the UK was a technological leader in that particular industry. NOKIA was the main player for some time. The U.K. Invents products, that does not always mean it is the biggest player in that technologies deployment. It is a major centre of excellence, but it is not the only one, far from it. I am pleased that your previous employer did well with their technology. Being patriotic towards your own country does not make me hostile or anti another's success. That would be a very silly attitude.

It is really  good to have these discussions and please do not take anything I write as an attack on your views. They are just my viewpoint and thankfully we are able to air such views without fear as we live in a region of free speech where all views are welcome. At the end of the day none of us individuals can change the current situation but it is still interesting to hear the opinions of those who either opposed BREXIT or who live in the rest of Europe.

Fear not, your names will not be entered into my 'little black book' for a visit by the goon squad. That is the world that I would fear, not the EU. When you compare our situation to those living in North Korea, we are so lucky, and have little to complain about. For that I am grateful.

Best Wishes

Fraser

[jancumps]

I bet that in ten years time Germany and Turkey are the only ones remaining in the EU.

That is the best post in this whole thread! 

Together with some ghettos hellholes like Brussels, London and Paris.

Excuse me. I live in Brussels (Schaarbeek yes).  And I stay in Paris and London often. We aren't ghettos hellholes. Get real.

[Galenbo]

Obama basically said the US cares more about a trade agreement with all of EU than a single country since the EU-market is so much bigger, which makes sense. Why they (Obama and Cameron) supposedly believed that saying that would make more people vote for remain I'm not sure.

The Obamist should better keep his mouth shut. His country chose an UsExit from Britain in 1776, they are the separatists.

we have allegedly gotten trade offers from Russia

EDIT: for the record, I wish the EU could be better friends with Russia as well, every one benefits from peace and better relations.
[/quote]
USA chose the fascist religious regime Turkey as an ally, to keep provoking trouble between imperialist-EU and Russia.

I wonder how the subsidized Media will portrey Scotland now (not really)
They are like Crimea, that chose to separate from the country Ukraine and reattach to Russia again.

[Galenbo]

Excuse me. I live in Brussels (Schaarbeek yes).  And I stay in Paris and London often. We aren't ghettos hellholes. Get real.

So you are used to it. I had to work in Schaarbeek, sometimes in Paris, and it was a shock on a daily basis.
Or do you live in the eastern rich part of it, and are your travels to london in the elitarian "bankers city"?

[jancumps]

Excuse me. I live in Brussels (Schaarbeek yes).  And I stay in Paris and London often. We aren't ghettos hellholes. Get real.

So you are used to it. I had to work in Schaarbeek, sometimes in Paris, and it was a shock on a daily basis.
Or do you live in the rich part of it, and are your travels to london in the elitarian "bankers city"?

no and no

[Galenbo]

Excuse me. I live in Brussels (Schaarbeek yes).  And I stay in Paris and London often. We aren't ghettos hellholes. Get real.

So you are used to it. I had to work in Schaarbeek, sometimes in Paris, and it was a shock on a daily basis.
Or do you live in the rich part of it, and are your travels to london in the elitarian "bankers city"?

no and no

So ok, glad for you, that you are happy with that kind of environment.
I had nasty experiences enough there, and compared to the environment of my preferences, I call that a hellhole. Without stating that worse is impossible.
(rue d''anethan, FJ Navez, Rue Masui,..)

[MT]

do actually believe what you read from the bbc? theguardian? and then propagate those as facts? 

You cant be that simple minded!?!   Why not read the "whole thread" and the ongoing debate rather fetching for ad hominem and his friends.

[jancumps]

my hope is that we can now negotiate the trade that we originally thought we were buying into without all the other crap. My hope is that now we have to debate stuff in our own government instead of argue it in europe poeple will hear about what is going on and take an interest.

I believe that the negotiations will be run in a normal diplomatic spirit of two befriended entities that know each other for centuries. With the best possible common outcome.
Diplomats are used to do these talks with rationality and common sense.

[Galenbo]

Well I voted leave ...well now we are out we have only ourselves to blame...The euro was the biggest fucking disaster ever... and had a British passport yet she was denied benefit so I sure hope migrants aren't getting a better deal than this.

What a surprise. I previously saw you as somebody from the top-3 PolCo guys/girls/trans/... of this forum, and in my simplification of the happening they al vote Remain.

And not a lot of people seem to realise that the Chinese put 100% import duty on everything they buy in so what are we playing at? No doubt somebody is gaining let me guess some big businessman that are importing this crap and then selling it to us for inflated prices that is why the government is weak on these things because big business speaks louder than those who elect them.

Sounds like you suddenly even prefer the self-proclaimed strong-negotiator that promises to make his country great again :-)

[MT]

We are part of Europe, but we don't belong in the EU. It is the EU we have rejected, not the ordinary people of Europe.

The EU is fundamentally opposite to us culturally. As a German, I don't expect you to understand. I know a lot of Germans, mostly we get on, and we can have a drink and a laugh, but none actually understand English culture, just as I don't understand some of the things I've come across in Germany ('being the father' - culturally acceptable bullying from my point of view), we have very different history and geography and have made our way to where we are now separately.

My kids aren't facing a grimmer future now we've released ourselves from the EU. There may be some temporary
pain, but we'll get past it to hopefully a brighter future where we aren't tied to the failing EU experiment.

English culture? Your right, no one understands the English love for English eccentricity. Whom do you define as ordinary people of EU who's not part of EU? From when in time do you consider you braked away and formed a particularly English culture? After the demise of Romans? House of Plantagenet?The Vikings?

[Fraser]

Nctnico,

I see you asked for an example of what the UK does better in terms of technology than all EU countries.

Simple...... Four words. ...... Rolls Royce Aero engines

My father was production engineering manager at RR Aero Engines. As a result I know a thing or two about advanced technology gas turbine engines The amazing Pegasus power plant powered the much revered and feared Harrier AV8B 'Jump Jet' that the USA Marines still use and love. Their US designed replacement is still in development.

Sadly our stupid Government scrapped our refurbished AV8B squadrons on poor advice from an old Tornado pilot who wanted knackered old Tornado's to survive the cuts. The USA were livid as they very much liked the airframe and it's reliable power plant.

You asked, so I answered

Fraser

[Brumby]

Well, let's assume that the BREXIT decision and the UK breaks away.... What next?

Since the concept of an international union seems to have offered benefits, then I can see the possibility of an alternative union being considered.  Initial potential parties could be the UK and the USA - and if other EU members exercise their right to leave, they might also be interested.  There would be one major advantage to any such discussion, particularly in regard to potential problems - the EU example.  If it gains traction, the EU might find more countries jump ship.  Since there are issues some (if not most) countries have with the current EU setup, this does not seem too far fetched.

I might wonder what you would call it, though.  Trans Atlantic Union? 

Maybe we should avoid a geographical definition - there's been enough griping about the definition of 'Europe'.  Since China seems to be thinking independently, perhaps we could look at it representing the "Western Hemisphere".

Hmmm..... "Western Union" ...... There might be some trademark problems there.

Then again, one must also be aware that there could be further problems which develop.  There might be a clash within the USA and you could find some states wanting to go down a different path.  We could then end up with a Southern Union.  (The confederate flag might live again.)


Nevertheless, by the time this process goes through a sufficient number of iterations and we find ourselves with a truly effective, functional and democratic model, we could find ourselves stepping up to the plate and establishing the United Federation of Planets.

We'll have mastered intergalactic travel by then.