UK forum members, BREXIT?

[zapta]

Brexit is definitely more profound decision than just selecting the President for the next 4 years. Brexit is a decision that will affect the country and its citizens for the next decades, so it should better be a good decision - not just f**k-you-government-statement.

But that really is how stupid people are.

the-people-that-disagree-with-are-stupid is a childish approach to politics.

[Simon]

Brexit is definitely more profound decision than just selecting the President for the next 4 years. Brexit is a decision that will affect the country and its citizens for the next decades, so it should better be a good decision - not just f**k-you-government-statement.

But that really is how stupid people are.

the-people-that-disagree-with-are-stupid is a childish approach to politics.

In the short time i have taken an instrest I have met plenty of stupid people who can only think about one little thing with the exclusion to everything else. Those that blame everything on immigration are stupid, and i have demonstrated that, I have a job far beyond my qualifications, why can't the lazy brits find a job ? but instead they blame immigrants instead of getting off their arses. They also don't see all the other apsects to this.

[nctnico]

In the short time i have taken an instrest I have met plenty of stupid people who can only think about one little thing with the exclusion to everything else. Those that blame everything on immigration are stupid, and i have demonstrated that, I have a job far beyond my qualifications, why can't the lazy brits find a job ? but instead they blame immigrants instead of getting off their arses. They also don't see all the other apsects to this.

I don't understand the whole problem with immigrants in the UK. At 5% the UK has the third lowest unemployment rate in Europe. I once read that a well running economy needs an unemployment rate of around 5%.

[zapta]

In the short time i have taken an instrest I have met plenty of stupid people who can only think about one little thing with the exclusion to everything else. Those that blame everything on immigration are stupid, and i have demonstrated that, I have a job far beyond my qualifications, why can't the lazy brits find a job ? but instead they blame immigrants instead of getting off their arses. They also don't see all the other apsects to this.

1. Your case is an anecdote.

2. They may have different values then you and prefer a different future for their culture and country.

Basically, your country surrendered it's sovereignty. It's a valid position for a rational citizen to object and to bring the decision making closer to the people.

The name calling is counter productive.

(we have a similar thing going here so this is not a we-are-better-than-you post).

[rch]

Corbyn's problem is that he is a bit too honest,

You are joking, aren't you?

I think Corbyn is a loony lefty, with completely idiotic policies.  BUT I did think he was a principled man, with the courage of his convictions - "This is what I believe in, and this is what I want to do."  He is also a lifelong Eurosceptic, and has voted against the EU at every turn.  Then somehow he was brow-beaten into pretending to be a remainer.  Just look at how half-arsed his campaigning was!
Had he stuck to his true feelings, he could have lead the Labour Leave campaign, and would be sitting pretty and in a position to try to enact some of his left-wing ideals in the exit process.

Honest democratic leaders follow party rules, which  in the Labour party said the policy set by the party (which was to remain in the EU) should be followed by the leader.   Corbyn could either support this or resign.   He chose to support it, and I suspect he can see dangers in leaving as well as the rest of us, so he may even have agreed this was the best policy for this referendum.  The EU has good points and bad points and he said so. Seems very principled, if not entirely in his own personal interest.

[vodka]

In the short time i have taken an instrest I have met plenty of stupid people who can only think about one little thing with the exclusion to everything else. Those that blame everything on immigration are stupid, and i have demonstrated that, I have a job far beyond my qualifications, why can't the lazy brits find a job ? but instead they blame immigrants instead of getting off their arses. They also don't see all the other apsects to this.

I don't understand the whole problem with immigrants in the UK. At 5% the UK has the third lowest unemployment rate in Europe. I once read that a well running economy needs an unemployment rate of around 5%.

Maybe will be that the immigrant haven't 30 english surnames or  like enough they don't talk with british genuine accent .

[rch]

Corbyn's problem is that he is a bit too honest,

You are joking, aren't you?

No.

I think Corbyn is a loony lefty, with completely idiotic policies.  BUT I did think he was a principled man, with the courage of his convictions - "This is what I believe in, and this is what I want to do."  He is also a lifelong Eurosceptic, and has voted against the EU at every turn.  Then somehow he was brow-beaten into pretending to be a remainer.  Just look at how half-arsed his campaigning was!
Had he stuck to his true feelings, he could have lead the Labour Leave campaign, and would be sitting pretty and in a position to try to enact some of his left-wing ideals in the exit process.

I agree with pretty much all you just said.

I know that Corbyn was vehemently Euroskeptic in the past but even principled politicians sometimes change their views.

BUT it doesn't actually matter whether he had some sort of epiphany over Europe or just agreed to toe the party line. Once the decision had been made that he would back the Remain campaign he should have done so wholeheartedly. His famous "I'm seven-and-a-half out of ten on Europe" comment did not inspire confidence. In fact the BBC is reporting that about half of Labour supporters were unsure what the official stance of the party was. It might be more honest for him to admit that he had come around to supporting our membership of the EU but with reservations (it also might not, but let's give the benefit of the doubt) but it did not help the campaign.

Maybe it is a new idea to treat the voters as intelligent human beings?   Instead of a lying propaganda campaign by two polarised sides of liers issuing simple-minded advertising soundbites, why not tell people the facts for and against and encourage them to think for themselves?   Blaming Corbyn for treating them as adults seems a bit perverse.

[doobedoobedo]

Name calling by those who backed the losing side is not doing anyone any good. Calling everyone who voted leave a stupid racist is being heavily promoted in our media though, so go figure.

[rstofer]

In the short time i have taken an instrest I have met plenty of stupid people who can only think about one little thing with the exclusion to everything else. Those that blame everything on immigration are stupid, and i have demonstrated that, I have a job far beyond my qualifications, why can't the lazy brits find a job ? but instead they blame immigrants instead of getting off their arses. They also don't see all the other apsects to this.

I don't understand the whole problem with immigrants in the UK. At 5% the UK has the third lowest unemployment rate in Europe. I once read that a well running economy needs an unemployment rate of around 5%.

I don't know if the UK cooks its books on unemployment like the US but around here, the unemployment rate is wildly understated simply because people who are not actively looking for a job aren't counted.  People who are significantly underemployed are not counted.  The labor participation rate is miserable.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/02/04/myth-56-unemployment-why-us-official-rate-is-big-fat-lie.html
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Labor-Force-Participation-Rate.png

One thing to watch out for on the Labor Force Participation Rate chart is the compressed scale of the Y axis.  The graph makes things look a lot worse than they are but they're still not good.

[Cerebus]

Honest democratic leaders follow party rules, which  in the Labour party said the policy set by the party (which was to remain in the EU) should be followed by the leader

As a point of information, the Labour party has traditionally worked on the lines of 'collective responsibility' for policy, so once party policy is set by member's votes at the annual conference the front bench is expected to follow it. It's a practice recently largely ignored by the presidential style of 'New Labour' but with Corbyn being a bit more old school it seems to be coming back.

[grumpydoc]

Maybe it is a new idea to treat the voters as intelligent human beings?   Instead of a lying propaganda campaign by two polarised sides of liers issuing simple-minded advertising soundbites, why not tell people the facts for and against and encourage them to think for themselves?   Blaming Corbyn for treating them as adults seems a bit perverse.

Nothing would please me more than living in a society where intelligent debate were possible in an election. But it comes over as indecisive and weak - Gordon Brown tended to have the same "fault".

[mtdoc]

Interesting interview with Mark Blyth. He discusses Brexit and puts it in context of the EU, EMU, globalization.  Why it's not about immigration.

[3db]

Quality is my problem with the EU. why did we admit countries like poland ? and no I am not saying that I don't want them to immigrate here, I am saying why do they feel the urge to emmigrate from poland ? so much for the EU being made up of equal countries, this was replicated with the euro.

Poland has a quite an educated workforce.
The Polish workers in the UK aren't just labourers there are lots of skilled trades too.
I would rather pay a Polish worker in the UK than most of our indigenous lazy bastards.
IMHO the real question/issue is why aren't we and educating and training out native population.
This is a problem that ALL UK governments have failed to address for decades.

[3db]

Have you heard of Rolls Royce

The motorcars division is a german company? (Bought by BMW if I am not mistaken).

The airplane division is not doing well

Rolls-Royce has issued five profit warnings in less than two years, and its share price has fallen by almost half since last April.

It still has about 50% of the global commercial aircraft jet engine market.

[3db]

Do we even need 1940's post war organisations like the EU in this century of globalisation, I think not. Most things can be sold any where in the world as long as they comply with ISO and other standards such as IEE, most things are available online as well. So to a large extent the EU could be considered redundant in the greater scheme of things.

There's a bit more to this than harmonized standards for goods. I'll wager that you're too young to have had a father that fought in the 2nd World War and we're both too young to have a father that fought in the 1st World War. Both wars started in Europe. Prior to the end of 2nd World War there was almost always a war going on somewhere in Europe. Since the formation of the various post war pan-European organizations there hasn't been a war in Europe - I doubt that is coincidence.

A lot of other things have changed as well, we are globalized, we trade it's no longer us and them unless your ignorant and/or live under a rock.

Exactly !!
SO the EU continues to spend most of it's pissing about rather than make the continent MORE competitive.
DO you think Asia gives a shit about EU regulations ?
Chinese CE mark   

[Corporate666]

The best form of government is a benign dictatorship by someone sufficiently wise.

The real problem with that is that dictators are rarely benign and tend to have a very idealized view of their own talent to ego ratio.

I sincerely hope the first sentence is a joke.


The problem is that there is no objective right and wrong when it comes to governance.  The idea (which is rearing it's ugly head on this site) that someone knows better what is best for someone else isn't even close to being true.  Nobody can know what other leaders, other countries and other governments will do, so the idea that someone can possess enough wisdom to be a better leader than the people can lead themselves is incorrect from the start.

[dexters_lab]

...first post in this 50 page thread 

so is it safe in here or is there a shitstorm happening like everywhere else? 

[3db]

...first post in this 50 page thread 

so is it safe in here or is there a shitstorm happening like everywhere else? 

Could be heading towards shitstorm .

[jancumps]

it's safe

[3db]

it's safe

Hello ZELL !!
I do hope you've left your drill at home.   

 
EDIT
Forget this one. I read the comment as " is it safe". 

[nctnico]

DO you think Asia gives a shit about EU regulations ?

Asia has to give a shit about the regulations otherwise their stuff goes straight into the trash. In Rotterdam there used to be (or still is) a whole ship load of brand new Chinese SUVs rotting away because they are BMW X5 copies and are therefore not allowed to be sold in the EU.

[jitter]

Quality is my problem with the EU. why did we admit countries like poland ? and no I am not saying that I don't want them to immigrate here, I am saying why do they feel the urge to emmigrate from poland ? so much for the EU being made up of equal countries, this was replicated with the euro.

Poland has a quite an educated workforce.
The Polish workers in the UK aren't just labourers there are lots of skilled trades too.
I would rather pay a Polish worker in the UK than most of our indigenous lazy bastards.
IMHO the real question/issue is why aren't we and educating and training out native population.
This is a problem that ALL UK governments have failed to address for decades.

When the company I work for was taken over by another company, all of a sudden I found myself having lots of Polish colleagues. Over the years I found more or less the same thing you're saying.
When my brother was quite negative about the Poles in the building trade (which is what he is in), I told him I was grateful for their presence, for they were willing to do the overtime I wasn't and that meant I could go home after a full 40 hours workweek and actually have a life.

[grumpydoc]

Interesting interview with Mark Blyth. He discusses Brexit and puts it in context of the EU, EMU, globalization.  Why it's not about immigration.

Well, he's sure as hell right on the fact that the funds which went to Greece just wound up with their creditors.

[Dr. Frank]

BREXIT....  realized.. NOW
England is out, against Iceland, 1:2

Frank

[nctnico]

Well, he's sure as hell right on the fact that the funds which went to Greece just wound up with their creditors.

What would you have expected? And the mechanism is simple. The Greeks have (had) to pay a high interest rate on the short term loans because they could no longer borrow from the internal market. The short term loans caused the Greeks economy to stabilise so the interest rates can go down and the Greeks could borrow for lower interest rates. IOW: the short term high interest rate loans have become low interest rate long term loans; it would not have made sense for the Greek to go for high interest long term loans. Either way the Greeks will probably be paying back the loans they got for the next half century if not longer.

http://graphics.wsj.com/greece-debt-timeline/