UK forum members, BREXIT?

[grumpydoc]

The UK will leave the Euro zone.

They never entered it.

I thought some smart Alec would pipe in. I said the Euro zone, not the Eurozone. Make that 'will cancel their EU membership', if you prefer.

I'm sure I've seen a few references to "leaving Europe" which would be difficult as, the last time I looked, we are still part of the continental plate .

Cameron's attempt to blame the EU for the mess by "not listening to him on immigration" was interesting, I wonder if things would have turned out differently if he had come back with agreement on curbing free movement earlier in the year. That said the whole referendum was his idea.

Farage did what he always does in the European Parliament - sneer and try to get up everyone's nose as much as possible. I quite liked Guy Verhofstadt's comment about Brexit meaning that they could save one of the biggest waste of funds in the EU - Nigel Farage's salary.

[grumpydoc]

This is the timeline

Exactly. So, the UK will be a full member of EU for at least next two years after UK files the Article 50 with full obligations to comply EU rules and pay the fees. If the extended period is requested and approved, UK can be a full member up to next 10 years with full obligations to comply EU rules and pay the fees.

In summary: Nothing will change in the UK regarding the EU for the next two ... ten years even if the UK files the Article 50 like today.

We only get an extension if all 27 remaining nations agree.

If not we are out on our ear with no agreement after two years.

The hope is that the EU perceive that getting an agreement with us is important enough to extend the negotiations if they take more than two years, whether they do/will is not clear.

[zapta]

To be more precise.
Currently the UK Gov has said that it accepts the vote to leave the EU.
That IS the official position of the UK GOV as stated to the UK parliament by David Cameron current Prime Minister of the UK.
GET IT NOW ?

Article 50 or it never happened. Remember Boaty McBoatface.

[Kalvin]

To be more precise.
Currently the UK Gov has said that it accepts the vote to leave the EU.
That IS the official position of the UK GOV as stated to the UK parliament by David Cameron current Prime Minister of the UK.
GET IT NOW ?

Article 50 or it never happened. Remember Boaty McBoatface.

Nice reading
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/05/boaty-mcboatface-parliament-lessons/482046/

[G7PSK]

[/quote]
I'm sure I've seen a few references to "leaving Europe" which would be difficult as, the last time I looked, we are still part of the continental plate .


[/quote]
That's why The CEO of JCB said leaving the EU would be good for JCB, it will take a lot of excavators to widen the channel and dig the UK free of the continental plate.

[zapta]

I'm sure I've seen a few references to "leaving Europe" which would be difficult as, the last time I looked, we are still part of the continental plate .

That's why The CEO of JCB said leaving the EU would be good for JCB, it will take a lot of excavators to widen the channel and dig the UK free of the continental plate.

Beware not to tip over your island.

[vodka]

Article 50 or it never happened. Remember Boaty McBoatface.

I remember that Blas de Lezo was at first the vote , and second was the Boaty McBoatface, but mysteriously the Blas de Lezo dissapered .

If the Uk don't request the art 50, i think that EU will change a few the laws and finally  they will sign by them. There are that to remember that the UK already  haven't  voice on EU

[steverino]

I'm sure I've seen a few references to "leaving Europe" which would be difficult as, the last time I looked, we are still part of the continental plate .

That's why The CEO of JCB said leaving the EU would be good for JCB, it will take a lot of excavators to widen the channel and dig the UK free of the continental plate.

Beware not to tip over your island.

Oh man, that was painful to watch.  As he was strugging to find the word for distance, I was praying he was having a bad day and was not the dumb f**k he appeared to be.  Then he removed all doubt with the island tipping concern (maybe this is a hoax - nobody can be that stupid!)

[Simon]

.
There are already rules laid down. if scotland leaves the UK it is a new state, yes it can bloody well mint it's own currency and according to EU rules  a country has to be a country for "x" years before being considered for membership. They can of course change the rules if they like after all they screwed the euro up good they can do as they please again.

They have minted their own currency for years------ Scottish notes are legal currency anywhere in the UK,just as Bank of England notes are.

The "country" status of Scotland,Wales,& Northern Ireland is a bit strange--They all compete as separate countries in the Commonwealth Games & other sporting contests,have a history of "separateness",& at least,in the case of Scotland,have their own legal system.

Also,Scotland was a country in its own right for hundreds of years before the formation of the UK.
If countries which were former victims of Soviet aggression can join the EU,surely that also applies to former victims of English aggression.

yes they mint the GBP, but we can't have two seperate counties using the pound. I think you will find former USSR countries were countries in their own right for some years before joining. I didn't say scotland can't join, I said they can't join immediately. The EU beleive it of not actually has "some" sund rules. You can't create a nation today and join the Eu tomorrow, the EU and euro has already taken a battering. Or maybe i mis remember and it's the euro they can't have until they have been around for a while. Either way they would need their own currency for a certain amount of years before they can join the euro. It's economic madness for them.

Which part of being a nation don't you get ?
Like I said I'm Scottish and don't want to be in the EU.
If Scotland ends up in the EU then so be it.
That's DEMOCRACY.
Currently the UK is leaving the EU.
Get over it and go read a few books !!   

As a moderator I suggest you close this thread down.
It's going NOWHERE and has served its purpose.

3DB building up to go into full rant mode.

So you want me to close this thread because it's not going the way you want...... Now that I have laid down the relity to you you start on something else and attack me ignoring your original statements. If yo have had enough then GO AWAY!

[vodka]

I'm sure I've seen a few references to "leaving Europe" which would be difficult as, the last time I looked, we are still part of the continental plate .

That's why The CEO of JCB said leaving the EU would be good for JCB, it will take a lot of excavators to widen the channel and dig the UK free of the continental plate.

Beware not to tip over your island.

Oh man, that was painful to watch.  As he was strugging to find the word for distance, I was praying he was having a bad day and was not the dumb f**k he appeared to be.  Then he removed all doubt with the island tipping concern (maybe this is a hoax - nobody can be that stupid!)

Mariano Rajoy president of Spain: A glass is a glass and a plate is a plate   

https://youtu.be/CekhGPidKuM

And other :

We have to manufacture machines that allow us  to follow manufacturing machines because it doesn't go  never to make a machine is manufacture machines 

[rstofer]

Oh man, that was painful to watch.  As he was strugging to find the word for distance, I was praying he was having a bad day and was not the dumb f**k he appeared to be.  Then he removed all doubt with the island tipping concern (maybe this is a hoax - nobody can be that stupid!)

Actually, he was being facetious.  When I first heard about the comment I just groaned.  Only in the US...
Today I decided to read his bio on Wikipedia.  I'm not a Democrat but I like his positions on a lot of issues.  He's pretty effective in Congress.  Also, read the section "Personal life" and his battle with Hep C and its effects.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hank_Johnson

[Kjelt]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/28/brexit-great-news-eu-britain-sovereignty

[vodka]

The problem was bad faith and delusional thinking.

Without newness at the front, all that have been rivals from UK  known their bad faith and low blows.

A UK  has always bragged of all the world: Spain with the gibraltar and now the CEE. But the Junkers has already planned the vengeance and he's going to give the UK their own medicine.

https://www.rt.com/uk/348904-scotland-sturgeon-eu-brexit/

[rstofer]

The EU is going to take a minor incident, Brexit, and turn it into a catastrophe out of spite.  The EU needs the UK and its military a lot more than the UK needs the EU.  If the "Leave" voters get the feeling that the UK is being treated unfairly, watch for another referendum.  This tit-for-tar won't end well!

The EU needs to polish up on Game Theory.  You never leave your opponent in a position where every outcome is a maximum fail because sometimes the opponents act irrationally.  For example, what would the EU think if the UK withdraws from NATO?  Why should the UK defend an openly hostile EU?  Not their problem!  If I were a former Russian satellite state, I would get very nervous about the tone of these meetings!

The EU needs to accept the decision and move on in as equitable a manner as possible.  The decision HAS been made!

[rstofer]

Here's the solution!  Let the UK become the 51st state!

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/29/opinions/make-the-uk-the-51st-state/index.html

I know, stupid, right?  The thing is, the UK really is highly regarded in the US.  You would certainly be welcome!

[continuo]

Yeah, why not. China, India and Russia are also interested and North Korea too. Hey, why not put the UK up onto eBay and sell it to the highest bidder? Private seller, no warranty, no refunds 

[nrxnrx]

This thread is becoming more and more cartoonish.

[Corporate666]

That is the official position from UK Govt to UK people. Official position from UK Govt to EU is, as of today, UK is not leaving the EU. I am talking simply pure official facts.

Incorrect.

Not having invoked article 50 yet is not the same as not leaving.  You're confusing lack of action with intent not to take action.  They're different things. 

[Corporate666]

On the breaking eu news:

“What i don’t understand is that those who wanted to leave are totally unable to tell us what they want. But i hope that the notification by the next British government will arrive as soon as possible.”

Honestly, Juncker is an idiot.  A divisive idiot.  A drunkard idiot.

He's got a grudge against the UK for repudiating "his" baby and he's throwing his toys out of the pram.

For the EU to say the UK needs to leave immediately is foolish.  There are a LOT of logistical and legal issues that need resolved - and the UK has every right to take all the time they need (up to that prescribed in the treaty) to leave the EU. 

Name-calling the leave voters doesn't strengthen Junckers position at all, nor that of the EU.  Nor does it help create market confidence or indicate that this thing will be handled rationally and maturely. 

[xrunner]

After the Vote the market crashed out, and now (predictably) it's going up strong again.

Investors are so fickle, why do people over-react? 

[continuo]

This thread is becoming more and more cartoonish.

The German word for it is "Galgenhumor", gallows humour (?) don't know if that is making any sense in English 

[rch]

On the breaking eu news:

“What i don’t understand is that those who wanted to leave are totally unable to tell us what they want. But i hope that the notification by the next British government will arrive as soon as possible.”

Honestly, Juncker is an idiot.  A divisive idiot.  A drunkard idiot.

He's got a grudge against the UK for repudiating "his" baby and he's throwing his toys out of the pram.



For the EU to say the UK needs to leave immediately is foolish.  There are a LOT of logistical and legal issues that need resolved - and the UK has every right to take all the time they need (up to that prescribed in the treaty) to leave the EU. 

Name-calling the leave voters doesn't strengthen Junckers position at all, nor that of the EU.  Nor does it help create market confidence or indicate that this thing will be handled rationally and maturely.

Two points;   firstly, he is not asking the UK to leave straight away, he is asking them to start the two year process straight away.  And secondly it is not *his* baby, it is the project of the founders of the EU, and one the UK has always resisted.  I am not necessarily disagreeing with your conclusions, just correcting the details.

[grumpydoc]

..... and the UK has every right to take all the time they need (up to that prescribed in the treaty) to leave the EU......

We aren't into the time period prescribed by the treaty yet because we have not invoked Article 50 (yet)

I'm not sure whether Europe is just behaving like a jilted lover or trying to take advantage of the fact that the UK political system is in turmoil at the moment but they do need to back off and let us sort out our end. No-one expected this result and it has rocked the boat rather a lot.

My main worry is that there will be a General Election - not unreasonable as there is the potential for new leaders of both Labour and the Tories and the view of Parliament - where most MPs favour Remain - is at odds with the views of the people.
The problem is that Labour are unelectable, certainly with Corbyn as leader and probably with anyone who might replace him and I am a little worried that UKIP could step into that void. BoJo as PM is one thing but Farage is quite another. FWIW I don't think it would come to that but the prospect is alarming.

The other problem is that they appear to be unmoveable on the free movement thing which might make negotiations difficult. Whatever you feel about the outpouring of sentiment over the issue it is clear that unless those that voted Leave can see a clear policy in place that will reduce the attractiveness of the UK to economic migrants from the poorer parts of Europe the electorate will get even more angry. Perhaps we could allow free movement of labour without free movement of people - i.e can come if you have already fixed up a job, perhaps if we allow free movement of people but no benefits, I don't know.

[apis]

On the breaking eu news:

“What i don’t understand is that those who wanted to leave are totally unable to tell us what they want. But i hope that the notification by the next British government will arrive as soon as possible.”

For the EU to say the UK needs to leave immediately is foolish.  There are a LOT of logistical and legal issues that need resolved - and the UK has every right to take all the time they need (up to that prescribed in the treaty) to leave the EU. 

Name-calling the leave voters doesn't strengthen Junckers position at all, nor that of the EU.  Nor does it help create market confidence or indicate that this thing will be handled rationally and maturely.

1. The referendum result is not legally binding, the UK parliament makes the final decision.
2. EU can't begin planing an exit before the UK activates article 50, after that there will be a minimum of 2 years to plan all the logistical and legal issues (and more) before formally leaving.

The UK government is currently stalling, holding the rest of Europe hostage. They should make their intentions clear to dispel as much uncertainty as possible and let people begin planing for the future. The UK government deciding to ignore the referendum would not be very democratic. Everyone in EU, except nationalists, are unhappy to see the UK leave, but if the people of Britain voted for a Brexit that should be respected and the UK government should therefore activate article 50.

This is Johnson's and Cameron's fault, they keep blaming their own failings on the EU. Cameron wanted the referendum to save his own party from splitting, gambling that the British would be smart enough not to shoot themselves in the foot. Unfortunately the people decided this was a good time to give the establishment the finger and everyone lost. Well, at least the UK, it might not be so bad for the rest of EU after all. Some are afraid of a domino effect but I suspect the Brexit might actually make it less likely for other member states to leave now that they see what is happening in the UK. No other EU government is going to try exit referendums any time soon, that's for sure.

[rstofer]

After the Vote the market crashed out, and now (predictably) it's going up strong again.

Investors are so fickle, why do people over-react? 

Friday was breathtaking and who could know what Monday would bring.  Another dive to the bottom?  Well, no, it was fairly modest as falls go.  Then two days of recovery but we're still not quite back.

As a trader, going into the weekend was a huge risk.  Friday's are like that!

Markets like certainty and every trader in the world was certain the UK would remain.  Then they counted the votes...

I stayed in primarily because my managed funds are a little harder to dump.  I stayed in back in 2008 as well.  I could have gotten out earlier if I was actively trading and bought back lower but it's very hard to time the market.  I have recovered everything I 'lost' during that debacle and I suspect I will recover from this one as well.

When you live on a fixed income, these disturbances can be troubling.