Yet another cheap thermal imager incoming.. Seek Thermal

[Sensor Geek]

Works well with Samsung S4 (stock, not rooted or unlocked), same with Samsung Nexus 10 tablet (reversed connection).

Adapter cable below worked on both the S4 and the Nexus 10, although it was only needed on the tablet due to reversed connector. I couldn't locate a 180 adapter. It's difficult holding at the end of a cable and doing so likely effects the image quality due to heating from my hand.

YCS Basics 6 inch USB Micro male to female OTG extension cable ($5.39 shipped)

Images have a surprising amount of noise unless there's a wide thermal rage in the image and I'm not convinced that the calibration shutter is working correctly. It clicks every few seconds and the image pauses, but there is a persistent gradient over the image at times that doesn't correlate at all with the scene. I see no improvement in the image after each calibration. Maybe it's too subtle of a change for my old eyes.

For example, after viewing a coffee cup from about 20cm distant, then place the camera face-down against any surface, or viewing anything that's thermally consistent, I get these two images. The gradient is ever present unless I again view something with a lot of thermal variation.

[sacherjj]

I see the calibration sensor clicking more often in a very little temperature difference scene.  I'm guessing that it is what gain is pulled out of the sensor, to find differences in temps.  I don't get frequent shutter action with a widely varying scene.

It was interesting to see a 4 degree temperature difference in the main conduit feeding our server room. 

[Fraser]

Thermal gradient across the microbolometer may be as a result of less than good calibration by teh OEM. Microbolometer design issues (non temperature stabilised remember) or even localised heat sources on the PCB. One of the issues of mounting the microbolometer die on the same PCB as other heat producing components is thermal creep along the PCB ground plane to the sensor caused 'plumes' on one or more sides of the image.  As has already been eluded to, the temperature span setting of the camera has a significant effect on the noise content visible. Noise is most noticeable at small thermal spans. Even my $56K cameras show noise at a 2C span. This is why many sample images use quite large spans to make the images more pleasing to the eye. From a thermography perspective detail is better than pretty pictures and noise is a fact of life that is accepted. Over processed noise filtered, 'soft' images are often less useful to a thermographer but good fro artistic purposes !

It would be interesting to know how SEEK calibrate these cameras or whether they are using some form of manufacturing/processing technique to avoid this time hungry element of the normal  manufacturing process. We could be seeing a pretty course calibration table in the images that needs regular NUC/FPC operations in order to provide acceptable images. I am surprised that the shutter is operating so regularly. That is not great news and seems to suggest a VERY unstable microbolometer that needs regular FPC events to maintain a reasonably equalised pixel output.

For Mike and those with a SEEK that has been taken apart.... it would be interesting to see a thermal image of the SEEK PCB (front and rear) when running to see if the PCB is suffering significant thermal creep towards the microbolometer.

Aurora

[callipso]

For quite some time I've been hoping this day - the one Aurora shows off his TICs will come 

[callipso]

For Mike and those with a SEEK that has been taken apart.... it would be interesting to see a thermal image of the SEEK PCB (front and rear) when running to see if the PCB is suffering significant thermal creep towards the microbolometer.

Oh yeah, Mike, could you FireFlir it in the teardown video?

[mikeselectricstuff]

There is a break in the groundplane which could be partly for thermal reasons, but if they were serious I'd have expected to see a slot or line of holes as well.
However solid copper on an inner layer under the sensor may also be a good way to avoid too much of a thermal gradient across the sensor

[eneuro]

...just received a Moto G which works

Not so bad phone... it has Motorola Moto G

"Radio   FM radio"

 

More serious it looks like it has autofocus in its 5MP builtin camera Photo Quality Comparison

5 MP, 2592 ? 1944 pixels, autofocus, LED flash

Display:

720 x 1280 pixels, 4.5 inches (~326 ppi pixel density)

We'll see what this crappy Seek Thermal app will allow to save for futher analysis 

It has USB:

microUSB v2.0, USB Host

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_On-The-Go

USB OTG is a part of a supplement[1] to the Universal Serial Bus (USB) 2.0 specification originally agreed upon in late 2001 and later revised

This microUSB v.20 is the key that that this thermal camera can work, or this is also Android version issue?

Just trying to figure out how to ensure before buying Android tablet or phone that this Seek Thermal dongle will work?

BTW:
They says that Moto G has

GPS     Yes, with A-GPS, GLONASS

It has builtin one or this is some kind of external device?

[Fraser]

I am no Android 'fan boy' and the MOTO G is my first smart phone. I bought it because it offered great build quality combined with superb capabilities for a very reasonable price. Far cheaper than Samsung or Apple products of similar spec. A mobile phone geek recently told me it won awards for best budget mobile phone in 2013 AND 2014.... thats a long reign in modern mobile technology terms.

My Motorola MOTO G comes with a decent auto focus camera (confirmed in tests) and a GPS that tells the OS where the camera is and interacts with apps. It is super responsive to screen inputs and apps run smoothly due to the powerful quad (?) processor.

I heard rumours that the MOTO G is a Google flagship product as they develipoed it with Motorola to impress the market. No idea if true though but it does seem to be an awful lot of phone for the asking price of around GBP150 without contract. I am paying GBP12.50 for 24 months on contract (with TESCO) and receive the phone at no additional cost + 500Mb free data + 500 free texts + 500 minutes free talk time per month. I barely use any of the allowance as I tend to use a phone as just a phone or data via Wi-Fi AP's, but that is changing with time and I have plenty of allowance to play with.

Most importantly to this discussion..... SEEK state that the camera is compatible withe the MOTO G phone.

Aurora

[mikeselectricstuff]

Worked first time on Moto G - all I had to do was copy the .apt by plugging into PC, download a file manager from Google Play so I could find it (there may be another way but I don't know Android), and change a setting to allow apps from untrusted sources.

What I  don't really understand is why Seek want you to register - at least you can do 'later..' - hope this doesn't get naggy!
 

[eneuro]

My Motorola MOTO G comes with a decent auto focus camera (confirmed in tests) and a GPS that tells the OS where the camera is and interacts with apps.

From link above to gsmarena.com

Sensors    Accelerometer, proximity, compass

it has also accelerometer and compass, so with GPS live data, probably it is possible to make those Google street view images and send directly via internet to their website 

But when we go into conspiracy theory this device is also perfect for NSA to spy its owners while they know where you are and what are you doing based on accelerometer data and GSM voice and 5MP camera for live coverage in NSA 

Maybe worth to buy one-with custom DIY solar cells to charge without wires it could be quite nity 

It could be nice hack its builtin camera and add edges to Seek Thermal images (this thing is powerfull so easy task), but this autofocus sounds strange for the first time-maybe it is possible control it via Android interface?

[callipso]

What I  don't really understand is why Seek want you to register - at least you can do 'later..' - hope this doesn't get naggy!

That unfortunately is quite simple. When you buy consumer "smart-device", you're not simply buying a piece of equipment. You are buying the manufacturer's way of getting closer to your personal info, be it your email address, your physical location, your personal comms, browsing history or your brand preferences. This data is then sold in bulk.

This is the very same thing - you buy a cheap TIC and they get to place their closed-source code into something you carry 24/7 with you.

I'm not saying it's not possible for tyrian to be an exception (though that would be unlikely), all I'm saying is that this is a common industry practice.

[Fraser]

@ Callipso,

I wasn't aware that you wanted sample pictures from my various thermal cameras.

Have you any particular preferences i.e target type, temp span etc. A kettle is an easy target that makes most TIC's look pretty decent. Harder targets are those with small temperature gradients across their surfaces or against background.

I will be happy to produce images from examples of the following: 

1. FLIR PM570 (1st Gen Microbolometer) 320x240
2. FLIR PM695 (3rd Gen Microbolometer) 320x240
3. FLIR E4 320x240
4. NEC TH7102 (Boeing Microbolometer) 320x240
5. NEC/Mikron F30S 160x120
6. Testo 880-1 160x120

I have other camera models but some share the same imager hardware as those above and are just in different cases, and some do not offer digital image storage for upload here (firefighting cameras).
I now own 26 TIC's with a 27th (A Bosch MIC 412) coming to me next week from Cornwall. It will be 28 when the SEEK arrives. A pretty good reference collection for comparison work 

Let me know what you want to see and I will sort it out this weekend after I return from my Cruise.

Aurora

[miguelvp]

What I  don't really understand is why Seek want you to register - at least you can do 'later..' - hope this doesn't get naggy!

That unfortunately is quite simple. When you buy consumer "smart-device", you're not simply buying a piece of equipment. You are buying the manufacturer's way of getting closer to your personal info, be it your email address, your physical location, your personal comms, browsing history or your brand preferences. This data is then sold in bulk.

This is the very same thing - you buy a cheap TIC and they get to place their closed-source code into something you carry 24/7 with you.

I'm not saying it's not possible for tyrian to be an exception (though that would be unlikely), all I'm saying is that this is a common industry practice.

The good thing about the app is that once you dismiss it, it doesn't ask you again, at least not right away that I can tell. But if you clear the application cache then it will ask you again when you relaunch the application.

[callipso]

@Aurora,

I don't want you to do it, I'm just VERY curious, as I know you have an impressive collection...

If it wouldn't be much of a bother, I think a fresh new thread with some sample pics from some of them would be nice, like a low contrast scene, high contrast scene, tele, wide, etc....

[Fraser]

@Callipso,

Thanks for clarifying 

I had thought of starting a separate thread with some reference thermal images from a range of my thermal cameras so that people could see how the technology has evolved plus the good, the bad and the ugly of the technology (even at over $50K). I was afraid it could be seen as bragging though so did not do it. I collect and repair thermal imaging technology so have quite a collection as a result. My collection includes the first truly portable thermal cameras through to the FLIR E4. Some are designed for industry, others for fire fighting or specialist scientific/R&D use. I also own some nice auxiliary lenses 

If members of this forum wish me to show pictures of my cameras and images taken with them, I am more than happy to do so if it is taken i n the spirit in which it is provided and not seen as me bragging about how many thermal cameras I own !

Aurora

[Fraser]

Mike,

You made mention of registering your SEEK app and from what you said this seemed to be an issue. Do you think SEEK will refuse to register the app for UK users as they have not released it here yet ? It would be very petty for SEEK to refuse registration of a personal import unit. It would lower my view of a company that claims that it wishes to bring affordable thermal cameras to the masses.

Aurora

[mikeselectricstuff]

Mike,

You made mention of registering your SEEK app and from what you said this seemed to be an issue. Do you think SEEK will refuse to register the app for UK users as they have not released it here yet ? It would be very petty for SEEK to refuse registration of a personal import unit. It would lower my view of a company that claims that it wishes to bring affordable thermal cameras to the masses.

Aurora

No idea - I don't see any reason to register it so can't see it being a problem. My guess is they'll start EU shipping once they clear the US backlog.

[eneuro]

Just played with this Seek Thermal "oryginal sensor" image provided by @marshallh and resized down to 208x156 pixels size without any interpolation, since this include at post had resolution 3x bigger (624x468).

Than programmed my old school CITIZEN SRP-75 to calculate distances between those closest 3 triangle black dots, which looked like hexagon vertexes and bingo, it looks like distance between those dots is around: 4.1-4.2 pixels (squared is exactly 17-18, sqrt gives around 4 pixels distance)

So, when we know this it is easy to find in this image another black pixels which do not fit into this hexagon pattern-dead pixels marked them in red there as example?


Update: Another part of this sensor image: marked with yellow pixel with only 28 value, but red was black (0).
Distance between other "good black" pixels around 4.1-4.2 so normal.

Probably will write software to detect and mark to red those "dead black pixels " just by passing file name in program argument at command line of course 

BTW: Do you know how do they convert this 208x156 image to this 4x times bigger (832x624) shown in a few posts above, eg, those dog and coffe cup thermal shots?

[callipso]

@eneuro,

nice to see a fellow Linux user...

[eneuro]

@callipso
Yep, still using http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FVWM X windows manager 

[callipso]

Hardcore stuff man, I use just fluxbox...

[mikeselectricstuff]

[Stigaard]

Nice video Mike
I assume that since you ended up going through the soldermask that the relevant sensor signals was not available on any test points?
You seem to have been looking quite a bit at different lenses for pcb inspection if I remember correctly you were also looking in to it for the Flir E4.
Which focal length were you using for testing in this video and did that seem like a good fit?

[iRad]

Excellent video Mike! 
I'm still waiting for my iOS version of the camera... 
I have an early order number, so hope to get it soon and can verify the Apple ID chip. I plan to break out a USB from the board on mine so I can have a dual use version of the camera... 

[eneuro]

@Mike 

Made some small development and trying to teardown this Seek Thermal sensor image 

$ file libseekthermal.so.1.0.1
libseekthermal.so.1.0.1: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, x86-64, version 1 (GNU/Linux), dynamically linked, not stripped

For the moment automated software marked those black sensor data pixels with RGB green and now will try to output my own version of thermal imaginery using simple image processing tools to fill those black pixels with some usefull values  and detect bad pixels and mark them red

It is interesting how Seek Thermal deals with those black pixels on his output thermal images 4x bigger
Do not care to much about it for yhe moment while will try to make my own version od thermal image based on this input data...and it so close