NEW Next Gen 2 Series Tektronix Oscilloscope

[free_electron]

Look at MicSig. Doesn't need those encoders.

well , the newest micsig ADDED the encoders because all the users were asking for it !

https://www.micsig.com/product/
https://www.micsig.com/product2/

even their latest true tablet has a tactic ui
https://www.micsig.com/product5/

[bdunham7]

I want to know how long before that white plastic turns yellow.

[james_s]

I watched Shahriar's video, and my first thought was, here is a TDS210 for the 2020's. It's even fanless! Priced like a Tek, of course, but then it is a Tek. Not a scope I have a use for personally, but I think they will probably sell a lot of them.

Seems like the sort of thing they might sell a lot of to universities. They're compact, relatively inexpensive, and a reasonable way to get a bunch of budding engineers familiar with the Tek user interface.

[free_electron]

I watched Shahriar's video, and my first thought was, here is a TDS210 for the 2020's. It's even fanless! Priced like a Tek, of course, but then it is a Tek. Not a scope I have a use for personally, but I think they will probably sell a lot of them.

Seems like the sort of thing they might sell a lot of to universities. They're compact, relatively inexpensive, and a reasonable way to get a bunch of budding engineers familiar with the Tek user interface.

student engineers ? don't give them anything over 200$ .. those hantek things will do nicely.

[KaneTW]

I watched Shahriar's video, and my first thought was, here is a TDS210 for the 2020's. It's even fanless! Priced like a Tek, of course, but then it is a Tek. Not a scope I have a use for personally, but I think they will probably sell a lot of them.

Seems like the sort of thing they might sell a lot of to universities. They're compact, relatively inexpensive, and a reasonable way to get a bunch of budding engineers familiar with the Tek user interface.

student engineers ? don't give them anything over 200$ .. those hantek things will do nicely.

My uni had Tek scopes for the physics practicals, so I'd imagine they'd consider the 2 series at least. It's been a good decade though, so who knows how it is now.

[free_electron]

I want to know how long before that white plastic turns yellow.

hey, you can retrobrite your 1 year old Tek... for that 'old school look"

[coppice]

I want to know how long before that white plastic turns yellow.

Warranty period plus a few weeks, of course.

[rsjsouza]

Weird to see National Semi branded chips ... that logo went defunct when TI bought them. old stock ? it is a prototype ... could be.

TI does not ditch logos that easily, especially on sime specialized parts - you can still get new parts with the Burr Brown logo these days...

The pinch to zoom seems to react pretty slow. is it the UI or the actual redraw that is slow ...
1280x800 resolution is a bit weak these days. They could have used a better display. The price difference is not that high. If you look what tablet displays do in terms of resolution.

To increase the screen you need to increase the raw computing power of the graphics adapter, especially when there are layers upon layers of OSes and frameworks under it (we talked about this either earlier on this thread or in another one). That can explain why the pinch zoom is on the slow side as well.

To anyone complaining about the membrane keypad: you are not going to use it. It is stupid to put knobs & buttons on a touchscreen based instrument which has a proper touchscreen interface. The knobs & buttons are redundant relics from a past.

The rotary encoder brings a level of selection accuracy versus screen realstate that is unparalleled by a touch interface and its large buttons hiding the signal or other information behind. Side menus and their various side buttons are better for the smaller screens these types of equipment feature - I am spoiled by my Rigol and its buttons on both sides of the screen.

I watched Shahriar's video, and my first thought was, here is a TDS210 for the 2020's. It's even fanless! Priced like a Tek, of course, but then it is a Tek. Not a scope I have a use for personally, but I think they will probably sell a lot of them.

Seems like the sort of thing they might sell a lot of to universities. They're compact, relatively inexpensive, and a reasonable way to get a bunch of budding engineers familiar with the Tek user interface.

student engineers ? don't give them anything over 200$ .. those hantek things will do nicely.

My uni had Tek scopes for the physics practicals, so I'd imagine they'd consider the 2 series at least. It's been a good decade though, so who knows how it is now.

To be fair, a decade ago Rigol was still becoming a household name with their popular DS1052E - nowadays any lab that does not belong to the first world countries and/or has no interest from such manufacturers will fall back to the chinese, even the bottom of the barrel Fnirsi.

[tunk]

It's even fanless!

According to Dave's teardown video, it has two small fans.
And small fans tends to be noisier than larger fans.

[bd139]

Also small fans fuck up quicker in lab environments. Have had to ungunk a number of them over the years.

[EEVblog]

rotary encoders without detents ? so if you want to change the attenuator or timebase you have to guess when it will switch ?

The Horz and Vert knobs DO have detents, the others don't.

[EEVblog]

It's even fanless!

According to Dave's teardown video, it has two small fans.
And small fans tends to be noisier than larger fans.

You onl yhear the fan on power-up, after that it's almost completely silent, I have to put my ear on it to actually hear they are spinning. On par with the little Hameg that I thought didn't have a fan but did.

[EEVblog]

During the event I asked them multiple times about the waveform update rate and they didn't answer that question. When watching Dave's first impression video, I found out why, the Tek person talking to Dave in that video said it was something like 5k waveforms per second, then followed with something like "it's not a fast scope" 
for 2k$    their competition being the RTB2000, which can do 300k, why is Tektronix so far behind in this regard? how fast do their 3 and up series update?

I'll be doing that measurement today hopefully. I don't know how fast the 3 series is, if anyone does please let me know, as this is a fundamentally different architecture than the 3 and up series.
It's quite responsive to use in general though.

[Someone]

Just seen this today.
MSO242-BW-500 4 Analog Channels, 2.5GS/s sample rate, 10Mpts record length 500MHz Bandwidth (It's unclear if Logic analyzer is included or not) €9760
MSOX3054T MSO / MDO Oscilloscope, InfiniiVision 3000T X, 4+16 Channel, 500 MHz, 5 GSPS, 4 Mpts, 700 ps € 13160
Seems to be competitively priced. Though it comes with 1 year warranty 

A noticable/sizable jump in price between those two, the comparison in Keysight 3000 would probably be their recently released DSOX3054G ($14,000 vs comparable tek with licenses and probes $15,000). Closer would be Lecroy T3DSO3000 (Siglent) or 3000z. Like the Tek 2, the Lecroy 3000z is their lowest/cheapest model with their "full" UI, but retains active probe interface. A big step up over the Tek 2 in scope features/performance/options. Very few of these scope segments/tiers directly compare/overlap.

The vesa mount is a good idea, I can totally see this wall mounted, taking zero space from the bench. Did anyone see a picture of the power brick?

Its a nice thing to have, but the power and network/usb stick out the sides for bench use (no wifi?) making it more like a hack than a well designed addition. Direct into the plastic case? no internal frame might be a bit sloppy (not that monitor arms are known for their stiffness!).

This Tek is just that. More form than substance.
And if this scope is good enough for your work, than a Micsig that costs 5-6x less is also good enough. And for the difference in money you buy something else you need. A "any moment to be released" new Siglent SDS2000X HD will be in price range (actually much cheaper as you go up the range) , and has 12Bit resolution, for instance..

As you say this looks to be targeting/matching the R&S RTB2000 pricing with almost perfect overlap on channels and bandwidth, except forgetting that had 10bit ADCs as its headline/banner/key/special feature. Existing Siglent model are very competitive alternative already, anything newer/improved from them will probably be compelling.

The Tek 2 seems to be middling/behind on actual scope functions/specifications/performance. Disappointing for a brand new product, usually new models (from any brand) have something to push ahead in at least one key specification. Instead its only the periphery characteristics that makes the Tek 2 unique:
Hot-swappable batteries
VESA mount
Tek name/UI

Given the old Tek 3000 battery version was kept around a long time, there must be a big enough market in battery scopes.

[EEVblog]

This Tek is just that. More form than substance.
And if this scope is good enough for your work, than a Micsig that costs 5-6x less is also good enough. And for the difference in money you buy something else you need. A "any moment to be released" new Siglent SDS2000X HD will be in price range (actually much cheaper as you go up the range) , and has 12Bit resolution, for instance..

As you say this looks to be targeting/matching the R&S RTB2000 pricing with almost perfect overlap on channels and bandwidth, except forgetting that had 10bit ADCs as its headline/banner/key/special feature. Existing Siglent model are very competitive alternative already, anything newer/improved from them will probably be compelling.

The Tek 2 seems to be middling/behind on actual scope functions/specifications/performance. Disappointing for a brand new product, usually new models (from any brand) have something to push ahead in at least one key specification. Instead its only the periphery characteristics that makes the Tek 2 unique:
Hot-swappable batteries
VESA mount
Tek name/UI

Given the old Tek 3000 battery version was kept around a long time, there must be a big enough market in battery scopes.

Tek aren't releasing this to compete directly with models from others brands, that marketing is just incidental.
What they have done is complete the roadmap they had for the new next gen series of scopes. The 2 series was inevitable and actually discussed on this forum coincidently back when they started development in 2019.
Tek have a huge existing customer base, so the goal wouldn't have been to win huge numbers of new customers from competing models. For example, I doubt they spend a single minute sitting around brainstorming how they could kill the R&S RTB2000.

So when you decide to start on the 2 series, what do you do? You go to your existing key high value customers and ask them what they want and you try and filter those reponses and see if there's something new that you can come up with to offer them. They decided to focus on the form factor, the VESA mount, and the hot swappable batteries. The rest just came out in the wash and would have been a combination of price and not doing harm to the higher end 3+ series, whilst offering the same UI experience.

And you can bet that thir isn't the end of this type of form factor either, I'd expect to see other typses of gear get the same slim bench/portable treatment if this one does well.

[CRTbrain]

anyone know pricing on SW maintenance with the new Tek MSO 2?  I know it's required yearly, but I haven't seen a price.

[jeremy]

Not really a scope for me, I suspect the target market is a company/University that needs to buy 200 low end but solid devices and don’t want to take risks with their investment on an “unknown” brand like Rigol. They probably also want a supplier they can ring up and yell at. It does seem like a neat device though, I wouldn’t be mad if someone asked me to use one.

I am definitely looking forward to the day where mice and ethernet/VNC are standard on all oscilloscopes though.

PS: happy Rigol user here.

[EEVblog]

anyone know pricing on SW maintenance with the new Tek MSO 2?  I know it's required yearly, but I haven't seen a price.

I have been told they have dropped the software maintenance option, they will no longer charge for firmware updates for the life of the instrument. They said they removed this from the datasheet.
They listened to the complaints here and acted 

[Someone]

This Tek is just that. More form than substance.
And if this scope is good enough for your work, than a Micsig that costs 5-6x less is also good enough. And for the difference in money you buy something else you need. A "any moment to be released" new Siglent SDS2000X HD will be in price range (actually much cheaper as you go up the range) , and has 12Bit resolution, for instance..

As you say this looks to be targeting/matching the R&S RTB2000 pricing with almost perfect overlap on channels and bandwidth, except forgetting that had 10bit ADCs as its headline/banner/key/special feature. Existing Siglent model are very competitive alternative already, anything newer/improved from them will probably be compelling.

The Tek 2 seems to be middling/behind on actual scope functions/specifications/performance. Disappointing for a brand new product, usually new models (from any brand) have something to push ahead in at least one key specification. Instead its only the periphery characteristics that makes the Tek 2 unique:
Hot-swappable batteries
VESA mount
Tek name/UI

Given the old Tek 3000 battery version was kept around a long time, there must be a big enough market in battery scopes.

Tek aren't releasing this to compete directly with models from others brands, that marketing is just incidental.
What they have done is complete the roadmap they had for the new next gen series of scopes. The 2 series was inevitable and actually discussed on this forum coincidently back when they started development in 2019.
Tek have a huge existing customer base, so the goal wouldn't have been to win huge numbers of new customers from competing models. For example, I doubt they spend a single minute sitting around brainstorming how they could kill the R&S RTB2000.

So when you decide to start on the 2 series, what do you do? You go to your existing key high value customers and ask them what they want and you try and filter those reponses and see if there's something new that you can come up with to offer them. They decided to focus on the form factor, the VESA mount, and the hot swappable batteries. The rest just came out in the wash and would have been a combination of price and not doing harm to the higher end 3+ series, whilst offering the same UI experience.

And you can bet that thir isn't the end of this type of form factor either, I'd expect to see other typses of gear get the same slim bench/portable treatment if this one does well.

A company not even trying to compete in the market isnt going to last.

Tek got there first with compact low cost bench scopes (LCD screens), but this new form factor doesnt seem to have any wide appeal over "lunchbox" shapes/sizes already around. Sure, someone carrying it around as a portable will like it being 60% of the size and weight compared to the TDS3000, but that is pretending like there arent other portable or tablet scopes available. Blinkered Tek buyers is a shrinking market. Its completely valid to compare this to other realistic compeitors rather than letting you simultaneously push misleading comparisons while saying:

Tek aren't releasing this to compete directly with models from others brands, that marketing is just incidental.

"incidental" marketing

[Anthocyanina]

During the event I asked them multiple times about the waveform update rate and they didn't answer that question. When watching Dave's first impression video, I found out why, the Tek person talking to Dave in that video said it was something like 5k waveforms per second, then followed with something like "it's not a fast scope" 
for 2k$    their competition being the RTB2000, which can do 300k, why is Tektronix so far behind in this regard? how fast do their 3 and up series update?

I'll be doing that measurement today hopefully. I don't know how fast the 3 series is, if anyone does please let me know, as this is a fundamentally different architecture than the 3 and up series.
It's quite responsive to use in general though.

I went to see in the datasheets for the 3 and up series, they are all above 280k waveforms per second. That the 2 series can't even do 2% of the wfm/s of the 3 series is odd and disappointing. At uni we have some Tek analog ones, and when i first started to read about oscilloscopes and test equipment a few years ago, being exposed to Tek at uni and seeing the price and looks of their recent DSOs had led me to think they were the best out there. Now being more informed I don't think I would consider Tek for personal use, as nice as they may look!

[Bud]

Anyone else noticed if you connect the power supply and Ethernet or USB cables, the device footprint increases x1.5 on the bench with the cables sticking out to the sides. Poor design choice for placement of periferal and PS connectors.

[EEVblog]

Blinkered Tek buyers is a shrinking market. Its completely valid to compare this to other realistic compeitors rather than letting you simultaneously push misleading comparisons while saying:

I'm not saying it's not valid to compare them, especially given that Tek do on their own website with the Keysight 2000 and R&S RTB2000.
But you can't seriously think that they came up with the 2 Series to compete directly head to head with those models. That's just silly, they are very different product focusses.
Tek marketing put together the comparison because that's what marketing does, and because some percentage of the market expect to see such a comparison. But that doesn't mean it was the focus of the design effort, because it clearly wasn't.

Please, tell me how you go into a product design effort to compete directly against the RTB2000 or Keysight 2000 and come out with a product that is entirely different in form factor and usability, doesn't have 10bit to match the R&S, and is an order of magnitude less update rate than the Keysight 2000X?

[Someone]

Blinkered Tek buyers is a shrinking market. Its completely valid to compare this to other realistic compeitors rather than letting you simultaneously push misleading comparisons while saying:

Tek aren't releasing this to compete directly with models from others brands, that marketing is just incidental.

I'm not saying it's not valid to compare them, especially given that Tek do on their own website with the Keysight 2000 and R&S RTB2000.
But you can't seriously think that they came up with the 2 Series to compete directly head to head with those models. That's just silly, they are very different product focusses.
Tek marketing put together the comparison because that's what marketing does, and because some percentage of the market expect to see such a comparison. But that doesn't mean it was the focus of the design effort, because it clearly wasn't.

Please, tell me how you go into a product design effort to compete directly against the RTB2000 or Keysight 2000 and come out with a product that is entirely different in form factor and usability, doesn't have 10bit to match the R&S, and is an order of magnitude less update rate than the Keysight 2000X?

Tek marketing choose to compare it, fine, their call. But you keep bringing up the comparison to a 12 year old scope (again as some obnoxious "challenge" here) so I'll keep pointing out that its off the mark and clutching at straws.

The pricing and features of the Tek 2 series is a very very close alignment to the R&S RTB2000, suspiciously so when so much of the value in these scopes is now software that has almost zero marginal cost. But that is lagging behind competitive specifications of all sorts of other scopes in the same pricing. Yet you keep coming back with a cherry picked flattering "comparison". Like I said, who exactly would consider a Keysight 2000 series as an alternative? Only marketing noodles! and apparently you. Are you stupid? probably not, so there must be some other motivation.

Going to keep trying the exact same behavior of willfully ignoring competitors? You'll keep getting called out as a marketing puppet.

[EEVblog]

I measured the update rate for a 1MHz input.
18.8k/sec faster than 40ns/div, that's as good as it gets.
7.5K/sec to 100ns/div
3.8k/sec at 400ns/div
762/sec as the timebase slows down
380/sec
190/sec
dropping to 12/sec below 10us/div

And it's very bursty, up too a few dozen acquisitions before a gap anywhere from 50ms to 100's of ms. And it gets worse if you turn on various stuff.
Completely stops if you move waveforms or triger level around.

So yeah, it's disappointingly poor for a supposedly new architecture (Lexington it's called) that's been 15 years or so since the last one.

[EEVblog]

Tek marketing choose to compare it, fine, their call. But you keep bringing up the comparison to a 12 year old scope (again as some obnoxious "challenge" here) so I'll keep pointing out that its off the mark and clutching at straws.

Show me where I have ever compared this to the Keysight 2000.
I have specifically said I personally wouldn't compare it to either of these scopes like Tek did. But I said I have no problem if anyone wants to because that's the way they see it.

The pricing and features of the Tek 2 series is a very very close alignment to the R&S RTB2000, suspiciously so when so much of the value in these scopes is now software that has almost zero marginal cost. But that is lagging behind competitive specifications of all sorts of other scopes in the same pricing. Yet you keep coming back with a cherry picked flattering "comparison".

I am NOT the one making such comparisons! Quite the opposite in fact.

Like I said, who exactly would consider a Keysight 2000 series as an alternative? Only marketing noodles! and apparently you. Are you stupid? probably not, so there must be some other motivation.
Going to keep trying the exact same behavior of willfully ignoring competitors? You'll keep getting called out as a marketing puppet.

You are either willfully ignorant, or a deliberate troll who likes attacking me. Given your previous history in this regard, it's obvious.