NEW Next Gen 2 Series Tektronix Oscilloscope

[jjoonathan]

I dunno, it looks like RF relays are $15 in low quantity. For a $10k list price... that's a pretty close shave.

[Someone]

I dunno, it looks like RF relays are $15 in low quantity. For a $10k list price... that's a pretty close shave.

x4 channels then x5 to cover gross margin
10% of the cost of the bottom end model!

[jjoonathan]

Yeah, and I suppose they have to design them to the prices they are going to sell at, rather than the prices listed before they start playing the bulk / educational / Tektronix Tuesday discount game 

Besides, if they are targeting education, kids are just going to burn out the 50 ohm termination anyway. Might as well have it in an awkward replaceable dongle.

[free_electron]

If I had to chose I'd rather have x10 probe detection than 50 ohm input.

are you saying this thing cannot detect a 1:10 probe ? that would be another colossal mistake

[EEVblog]

I measured the update rate for a 1MHz input.
18.8k/sec faster than 40ns/div, that's as good as it gets.
7.5K/sec to 100ns/div
3.8k/sec at 400ns/div
762/sec as the timebase slows down
380/sec
190/sec
dropping to 12/sec below 10us/div

And it's very bursty, up too a few dozen acquisitions before a gap anywhere from 50ms to 100's of ms. And it gets worse if you turn on various stuff.
Completely stops if you move waveforms or triger level around.

So yeah, it's disappointingly poor for a supposedly new architecture (Lexington it's called) that's been 15 years or so since the last one.

Forgot to mention that those updates do not include the dead time which drops it down drastically.
Best I was able to measure actually pers second rather than maximum burst rate was 1.4k/sec.
Video coming shortly.
Majority of people said they want it on the main channel:
https://twitter.com/eevblog/status/1534740699819933696

[tautech]

I dunno, it looks like RF relays are $15 in low quantity. For a $10k list price... that's a pretty close shave.

Yep, EE's expect better, hell go price up 4 quality 50 Ohm BNC feed throughs and good luck finding them at $15.

[goaty]

Surely they will half the price in a special bundle like the RTB2k-COM4 ?

[EEVblog]

[EEVblog]

If I had to chose I'd rather have x10 probe detection than 50 ohm input.

are you saying this thing cannot detect a 1:10 probe ? that would be another colossal mistake

Yep, no detection ring around the BNC. Same as the R&S RTB2000.

[Fungus]

Anybody have a price list...? 

Pick your preferred/local seller and search for MSO22 or MSO24 ?
https://www.tequipment.net/search/?F_Keyword=MSO24

They're even tidy enough to make a table out of the models:

It's not just the price of the bare machine, it's the extras.

$4000 for 100MHz+serial decoders? I'm definitely not the demographic. I can't imagine the software or experience is that awesome.

If it's hackable and I can get edu-pricing on the base model? I'd have to think about it. It's still a lot more than eg. a Siglent 2000 and Micsig just announced three new high-end models.

[EEVblog]

Surely they will half the price in a special bundle like the RTB2k-COM4 ?

Tek aren't exactly famous for bundling stuff, let alone a half price intro.
The R&S half price intro was genius marketing.

[Fungus]

Tek aren't exactly famous for bundling stuff, let alone a half price intro.

When's the Tek-hacking video? 

[tggzzz]

It's just a marketing decision so not to damage the sales of other models in a manufacturers lineup.
In my time SDS2000, SDS2000X, SDS2000X Plus, SDS2000X-E and one further but now discontinued outlier SDS1000X+ all had/have 50 Ohm and 1M inputs.
As others also have mentioned, any scope capable of 200+ MHz should have them IF the design engineers are listened to.

In my experiments I showed that a pass through 50-Ohm termination can get around the lack of input termination. It is not the most convenient solution, but it works.

Doesn't the 14pF input capacitance cause VSWR issues, or did you insert a 3dB pad to minimise them?

[nctnico]

If I had to chose I'd rather have x10 probe detection than 50 ohm input.

are you saying this thing cannot detect a 1:10 probe ? that would be another colossal mistake

Yep, no detection ring around the BNC. Same as the R&S RTB2000.

Personally I don't see probe detection by means of a ring around the BNC as a big thing. In my experience it gets in the way rather than being useful. If you -like me- have a whole bunch of special probes with various attenuations, the simple probe detection doesn't serve any purpose. In some cases it even gets in the way because it doesn't recognise the vendor specific resistances.

If you insist on having probes being detected automatically, then you need to buy vendor specific probes which an extra interface next to the BNC to provide power and communication with the probe.

[Fungus]

Personally I don't see probe detection by means of a ring around the BNC as a big thing.

Yep. With a touch screen 'scope it's really fast to change the setting*. No twisty knobs or digging through menus.

(*) Hopefully.

[Black Phoenix]

If you insist on having probes being detected automatically, then you need to buy vendor specific probes which an extra interface next to the BNC to provide power and communication with the probe.

Whose this equipment also don't support since such interface is not present as in the R&S RTB2000.

[snoopy]

Just watched this and must say I am both surprised and disappointed with this performance. My old Tek TDS784 from the 90's would leave this in the dust LOL

Must have been specced by bean counters

[adam4521]

I'm wondering if the 2 series puts up a better show on wfm/s in segmented ("FastFrame") mode? And what the 3 series "run mode" performance is if ">280000 wfm/s" is in fact a segmented mode specification?

[bd139]

Just watched this and must say I am both surprised and disappointed with this performance. My old Tek TDS784 from the 90's would leave this in the dust LOL

Must have been specced by bean counters

No chance. It was specified by engineers. Then software engineers came and ruined it.

[nctnico]

Maybe they realised that having advanced triggers that catch a glitch 100% is better than any waveform update rate figure. Remember that high waveform update rates is something that has been hyped by Keysight. IMHO it is not an important number at all.

[adam4521]

No chance. It was specified by engineers. Then software engineers came and ruined it.

Perhaps that's why Keysight seem to be struggling to get a replacement for their existing Megazoom design? Product manager to test engineer -- "Did you just say the dev prototype is updating slower than our existing model?"

[2N3055]

So it doesn't have manual memory control if I understood Dave right?
That's gonna open the old wounds...

Cheap SDS1104X-E outperforms it in refresh rate...

If you want a brand name scope that has basic functions for general simple scope use, get DSOX1204G.
It actually does that job really well.

If you want simple touchscreen handheld scope with battery in tablet format get the Micsig.

If you want up to 500MHz touch screen scope that is small and powerful get new Siglent SDS2000X HD. It has 2 Math channels. It is 12 Bit..

Or get R&S RTB2000. Decent scope.

On all of these options you'll get better scope for less or same money...

[2N3055]

No chance. It was specified by engineers. Then software engineers came and ruined it.

Perhaps that's why Keysight seem to be struggling to get a replacement for their existing Megazoom design? Product manager to test engineer -- "Did you just say the dev prototype is updating slower than our existing model?"

They are not struggling anything. They have several new asics designed for higher end range..
Low end range is running on Fluke 87V principle.. Customers want more of the same.. You only refresh design to account for parts availability and open few more licenses free...

There will not be upgrade to Infiniivision range with Megazoom IV chipset.
They would need to introduce new midrange scope line between Infiniivision and Infiniium line, and then discontinue Infiniivision 4000/6000 and replace it with that new line. They could use 2 EXR input modules for 4 CH, basically make EXR -lite. But there is allready lots of overlap between 6000 and EXR in pricing, and EXR is much more capable..

[nctnico]

So it doesn't have manual memory control if I understood Dave right?

As I wrote before: it is a Tektronix so it has manual memory control by definition. Just check the manual.

And there is something else which is very interesting that you'll find there: there is no limit on the number of math, reference and bus decoding traces! Say again that other choices are always better... 

[JPortici]

So it doesn't have manual memory control if I understood Dave right?
That's gonna open the old wounds...

Cheap SDS1104X-E outperforms it in refresh rate...

If you want a brand name scope that has basic functions for general simple scope use, get DSOX1204G.
It actually does that job really well.

If you want simple touchscreen handheld scope with battery in tablet format get the Micsig.

If you want up to 500MHz touch screen scope that is small and powerful get new Siglent SDS2000X HD. It has 2 Math channels. It is 12 Bit..

Or get R&S RTB2000. Decent scope.

On all of these options you'll get better scope for less or same money...

but this is not a tablet (and i don't want a tablet scope nor an handheld scope) this is a bench scope thin enough that can be held in your lap with your laptop (there is a photo in the marketing material that is litterally me but instead i have a tek TPS on my lap over the laptop keyboard)

this scope has specific use cases in which there is no real competitor, and could sell real good. In those cases the poor wfm/s doesn't matter, the memory management doesn't matter, the membrane pad are just the right thing. let's see how long it will take for siglent to make one, that will be interesting.

BTW #1 i commented about the dead horse in the introduction video posted above, though it didn't gain traction
BTW #2 performance is just what i would expect from this scope seeing what's going to replace, that is still sold at equal or higher prices, 15 y/o architecture with abysmal wfm/s and 2.5kS memory per channel...