Author Topic: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)  (Read 3087582 times)

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Offline Ice-Tea

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6175 on: November 18, 2016, 10:11:45 am »
Bob R devotes all of 30 seconds to a throwaway post, and then we waste hundreds of hours debating its meaning  :-//
Welcome to the wonderful world of engineering... It's what we do, we debate for hours on end determining the meaning of something that is so simple.  :horse:  :-DD
 
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Offline ccs46

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6176 on: November 18, 2016, 02:17:28 pm »


:-DD :-DD
« Last Edit: November 18, 2016, 02:20:32 pm by ccs46 »
Normal people... believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet. - Scott Adams
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6177 on: November 19, 2016, 06:39:46 am »
Maybe that's the plan all along.  dunno

I think this whole saga is bordering very close to "obtaining a benefit by deception" or whatever the equivalent offence is in the USA. Hardly anything/nothing Batteroo or the Roohparvar's have claimed in their communications can be verified to be true. I'm not a lawyer but as an "average/reasonable person" it stinks of fraud.

Rather than promising the world, they could have just as easily come out and said "The product was a failure. We were wrong, the engineers were right. We bit off more than we could chew and the product simply didn't work as we wanted". Yes, backers would have been disappointed, but at least they could have been somewhat truthful.

Instead, now they've committed to the story of a Batteriser actually existing and having shipped them to backers, which we can all assume is a lie.
 

Online EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6178 on: November 19, 2016, 06:42:43 am »
Instead, now they've committed to the story of a Batteriser actually existing and having shipped them to backers, which we can all assume is a lie.

I still don't get the angle here. If that is the case, why say you shipped? What's the upside?
 

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6179 on: November 19, 2016, 06:47:43 am »
I find it curious that Bob has been claiming actual shipping now for the last 3 weeks, when in reality we have not one single report of an actual product reaching a single verified backer.

To throw him a bone. When I shipped my uRulers it actually took 3 weeks before the first ones arrived. My mailing house used one of the world's worst drop shippers who sent them all to Sweden first for some ridiculous reason:
https://www.eevblog.com/2013/12/31/traps-for-even-simple-successful-crowd-funded-projects/

Quote
It seems strange.  Is this all just for show to get that "big" order, to please the VC investors....what?  Surely if you claim active shipping and after three weeks there is not one single verified report of delivery to an actual real person, the game is going to be up very, very, soon ?

When my uRulers didn't start showing up, I was panicking and keeping everyone updating on what I knew.
 

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6180 on: November 19, 2016, 06:51:32 am »
The first waves must have petered out before they reached the shore

 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6181 on: November 19, 2016, 07:14:49 am »
I find it curious that Bob has been claiming actual shipping now for the last 3 weeks, when in reality we have not one single report of an actual product reaching a single verified backer.

To throw him a bone. When I shipped my uRulers it actually took 3 weeks before the first ones arrived....

I bet you posted a few photos of the product though.

 

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6182 on: November 19, 2016, 07:19:26 am »
I bet you posted a few photos of the product though.

 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6183 on: November 19, 2016, 07:23:49 am »
I still don't get the angle here. If that is the case, why say you shipped? What's the upside?

The only explanation is that part of their VC money is dependent on shipping something.

They say they shipped them, grab the money, run...

 

Offline WN1X

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6184 on: November 19, 2016, 08:11:11 am »

I still don't get the angle here. If that is the case, why say you shipped? What's the upside?

Agreed. Up to that point, the story was open ended. Once they announced the product was shipping, the clock is started. Considering how much time has passed since that point without seeing a photo from at least one customer, I have to call "bullshit".
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Offline g.lewarne

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6185 on: November 19, 2016, 10:11:29 am »
I find it curious that Bob has been claiming actual shipping now for the last 3 weeks, when in reality we have not one single report of an actual product reaching a single verified backer.

To throw him a bone. When I shipped my uRulers it actually took 3 weeks before the first ones arrived. My mailing house used one of the world's worst drop shippers who sent them all to Sweden first for some ridiculous reason:
https://www.eevblog.com/2013/12/31/traps-for-even-simple-successful-crowd-funded-projects/

Quote
It seems strange.  Is this all just for show to get that "big" order, to please the VC investors....what?  Surely if you claim active shipping and after three weeks there is not one single verified report of delivery to an actual real person, the game is going to be up very, very, soon ?

When my uRulers didn't start showing up, I was panicking and keeping everyone updating on what I knew.

But, if you remember, their first shipping claim was in the beginning of august, and he said 4-8 weeks, which took him to the end of September.  That was 8 weeks at that point, and now we are nearing the end of November nearly 16 weeks after the first shipping claim.  I doubt even the worst shipping company in the world would take that long for even 1 to be verifiably shipped to someone
 

Offline johndoe123

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6186 on: November 19, 2016, 01:48:22 pm »
I bet you posted a few photos of the product though.



still dont get why you needed the tear proof envelopes, just tape the ruler onto a piece of cardboard.
 

Offline kalleboo

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6187 on: November 19, 2016, 03:25:18 pm »
still dont get why you needed the tear proof envelopes, just tape the ruler onto a piece of cardboard.
When you're sending out thousands of something (and want to stay in the black), you can't take enough precautions
 

Offline Sonny_Jim

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6188 on: November 19, 2016, 05:44:31 pm »
I still don't get the angle here. If that is the case, why say you shipped? What's the upside?

The only explanation is that part of their VC money is dependent on shipping something.

They say they shipped them, grab the money, run...
Yeah I think this is the likely reason, part of a contract said that they had to ship to receive X more money, they ran out of money so simply said they had started shipping.  I've seen a very similar thing with a particular pinball company, they had terms that specified 50% payment on start of production and the rest when machine was ready to be shipped.  They ran out of money and simply announced they had 'started production', even though they aren't actually building the darn things yet.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6189 on: November 19, 2016, 11:57:06 pm »
still dont get why you needed the tear proof envelopes, just tape the ruler onto a piece of cardboard.

Cost.

1. You are going to need an envelope and someone to stuff it - no matter what sort of envelope you use.

2. Taping to a piece of cardboard requires additional materials and labour - a piece of carboard, a piece of tape and someone to actually put it together.  Not to mention the steps of procuring the tape and cardboard as well as handling of the 'assembled' insert.  Also, there is the potential for sticky residue to end up on the product.

So a few extra cents on an envelope which avoids all that could easily be cheaper overall.


Edit: Just watched the video   :-[
« Last Edit: November 20, 2016, 01:24:30 am by Brumby »
 

Offline ez24

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6190 on: November 20, 2016, 01:02:56 am »
Also, there is the potential for sticky residue to end up on the product.
Glue was used as per the video.  I assume hot glue, but some kind of glue that can be rubbed off the ruler.  Rubber glue?
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Offline PeterL

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6191 on: November 20, 2016, 10:57:19 am »
IMHO the nr of comments on IGG for this project is surprisingly low. And so just because I can I did some statistical analysis on these comments. Here are the results:

According to IGG 1352 comments were made, but only 1101 were still visible. -> so approx 250 seem to be deleted?
Those 1101 comments were made by 395 unique persons.
Since the campaign ended 275 unique persons have posted a comment.

I have not looked at the content of these comments, but if you subtract the answers by Bob and Ali, the positive comments, and the neutral questions, I think at most 200 people have raised some kind of complaint. That's less than 3%, and ~7000 people just gave money($53 on average), and let it be. I find that amazing.

One recurring questions is "How to change the shipping address?". The answer use to be: "sent an us email, and we handle it for you". But the last 9 months they have not responded to that question. Now let's dig into that a little bit further:

Some statistic say that people change address on average every 5 year. I'll go a little bit more conservative: say every 7.5 year. That means that every year 1000 of their backers move to a new address, or roughly 3 a day. Now of course most people will forget about notifying batteroo about this change, but after a new shipment announcement by Bob they should be reminded. And in fact we can see that, right after bob's last update 10 people have made comments about their changed address.
So address changes are a big issue, and Bob must realize that, especially since he should be getting mails about this on a weekly or even daily basis. And yet he just started shipping(or so he says) without even a reminder to make sure the addresses are right.

So from all of this I can only conclude that 90% of their backers have totally accepted the fact that they will never see a return on their investment.
 

Online edavid

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6192 on: November 20, 2016, 08:15:01 pm »
Well, for scampaigns I always wonder how many of the orders are shills.
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6193 on: November 21, 2016, 12:40:29 pm »
I am still waiting for the excuse: over time we lost the shipping addresses of our clients ....................
 

Offline PeterL

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6194 on: November 21, 2016, 01:50:06 pm »
Well I'll be darned...
« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 01:52:12 pm by PeterL »
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6195 on: November 21, 2016, 01:55:34 pm »
Hmmm...

The packaging and sleeve are branded 'Batteriser'.

Looks like an invitation for a lawsuit - if it's fair dinkum.
 

Offline Kean

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6196 on: November 21, 2016, 01:57:38 pm »
Well I'll be darned...


A photo of packaging is a good start, but where is the product?  Could be an empty box  :-DD
 

Offline madires

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6197 on: November 21, 2016, 02:03:24 pm »
I am still waiting for the excuse: over time we lost the shipping addresses of our clients ....................

While testing the Batteroo Generation 2 prototype with 25000% increase in battery lifetime Probes the monkey had too much energy left and fell over on to the keyboard hitting the delete key.
 

Offline PA0PBZ

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6198 on: November 21, 2016, 02:10:18 pm »
Here's the full res picture:

Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 

Offline firewalker

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #6199 on: November 21, 2016, 02:17:57 pm »
He is from Athens. I will try to contact him.

Alexander.
Become a realist, stay a dreamer.

 
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