How to safely charge Lithium Ion & Lithium Polymer batteries with a bench power supply.
At 10:15 you say you can compensate for the voltage drop across the wires by tweaking the max voltage. But I think that is a bad idea.
Most charging is done in CC mode, at which point the set voltage doesn't matter. Once it goes in CV mode the current will drop quickly, and so will the voltage drop across the leads. If you had set your PS to 4.230 volt then by the time the cell is full you would in fact have charged it to 4.23V.
If you have the monitor option for the DP832, you can set the '<CURR' monitor to sound the buzzer and turn off the output once the charge current drops below the monitor's trigger current. No need for a timer...
And to those who want a longer lifetime out of your LiPos: Charge them only up to 4.100V.
This is what the product does and about 7 years after release the first and oldest ones started to trickle in for battery replacement. That is very good for Lithium based batteries. Only about 730mAh are used of the 850mAh but the longer lifetimes is worth it.
Looks like a big hassle over using a TP4056.
Looks like a big hassle over using a TP4056.
What about the issue that PSUs are two quadrant devices and can't sink current/voltage so connecting a battery to their ouput can damage them? I was always instructed to use a diode and to compensate his loss in voltage. Even Rigol suggest this with a safety note.
Why
WhyFor a couple of hours it was private. I received an email notification in the morning and only at noon was available
Can you charge it lower C rating? E.g. C/10?
Alexander.
Speaking about recharging batteries, I have these Ni Mh here:
I have to recharge them, but There's no datasheet so I'm not sure about what to do. However, it's known:
1. capacity 5300mAh
2. rated 1.2V
3. "standard charge" : 530mA 15 h
4. "rapid charge": 1500mA 5 h
I have a Sony battery charger but refuses to charge them as soon as I plug them in ( I still have to figure out why... Everything seems ok according to what's written on the charger datasheet), so I can't recharge them in any way. I do have a Power supply (Agilent U8002A)
Well, let's charge them... I'm setting up my fire extinguisher and a specific pot to see if they explode during the charging process..
Ok, it's better if I make some research before I try to charge them...
Ok, it's better if I make some research before I try to charge them...
Video thumbnail has UltraFire 18650 on it but in the video it's not explained that these are deathtraps and should never be used! People might get the wrong idea and start buying those unprotected/sand filled/reused laptop cells 6000mAh 18650's that may blow up at one point.
I have personally seen some of them overheat when charging to a point where my charger cut them off. With this bench supply setup there is no temperature monitoring. After taking the labels off those overheated batteries i saw they were just some old trash picked and very rusty unknown laptop cells that had new caps and UltraFire 4000 mAh label stuck onto them.
Video taken down? Can't seem to view it over here and it doesn't appear on the YouTube channel list either.
says privet
Video taken down? Can't seem to view it over here and it doesn't appear on the YouTube channel list either.
says privetMaybe some sort of government secrets were given away? Maybe it is possible to make H bombs with Rigol PS and 18650s, who knows (I do not understand Li ion chemistry). After all CC-CV sounds scary. So I assume only top secret officials can view the video now. Glad I saw it before it went black and I hope the end of life did not start with this video
ps - I would like someone to explain to me why 18650 batteries cannot
Here is a link to the video.
https://www.eevblog.com/podpress_trac/web/8062/0/EEVblog919-Li-IonBatteryPSUcharging-640x360.m4v
Here is a link to the video.
https://www.eevblog.com/podpress_trac/web/8062/0/EEVblog919-Li-IonBatteryPSUcharging-640x360.m4vHoly crap it is getting worse (see pic) OR is it part of the conspiracy? Or is it an alien video (ps my Firefox crashed also thus confirming the alien conspiracy theory)
I did not notice Dave's remark that you could just dial the PSU voltage up a bit to compensate for the cable voltage drop.
BTW, what do you think about parallel charging LiPo batteries? I have this extension
ps - I would like someone to explain to me why 18650 batteries cannot be used for H bombs. After all lithium is used for H bombs.
Ok, if you are desperate you can use your power supply to charge a LiPo battery, but I prefer my iMAX lipo balance charger.
Ok, it's better if I make some research before I try to charge them...
Ok, it's better if I make some research before I try to charge them...Yes, more research is required. NiMh batteries charge differently from what Dave shows.
!MAJOR WARNING!
What Dave shows here is really dangerous! Never ever connect a battery to a generic power supply without a series diode! If something goes wrong in the power supply excessive currents may flow back into the power supply. Worse, some power supplies have a crow-bar (thyristor) across their output which gets activated in case of an error (overheating for example) and short the battery. I've seen the damage it can do first hand.
The voltage across the series diode can be compensated by setting the voltage a bit higher but don't overdo it. There is not much extra charge going into the battery near the maximum charging voltage anyway.
Also: when using Lithium batteries always use a UN38 certified pack with an integrated protection circuit against overcharge, undervoltage and current limits.
!MAJOR WARNING!
What Dave shows here is really dangerous! Never ever connect a battery to a generic power supply without a series diode! If something goes wrong in the power supply excessive currents may flow back into the power supply. Worse, some power supplies have a crow-bar (thyristor) across their output which gets activated in case of an error (overheating for example) and short the battery. I've seen the damage it can do first hand.
The voltage across the series diode can be compensated by setting the voltage a bit higher but don't overdo it. There is not much extra charge going into the battery near the maximum charging voltage anyway.
Also: when using Lithium batteries always use a UN38 certified pack with an integrated protection circuit against overcharge, undervoltage and current limits.
Always, Never. Typical EU type thinking.
!MAJOR WARNING!
What Dave shows here is really dangerous! ....
Also: when using Lithium batteries always use a UN38 certified pack with an integrated protection circuit against overcharge, undervoltage and current limits.
!MAJOR WARNING!
What Dave shows here is really dangerous! Never ever connect a battery to a generic power supply without a series diode! If something goes wrong in the power supply excessive currents may flow back into the power supply. Worse, some power supplies have a crow-bar (thyristor) across their output which gets activated in case of an error (overheating for example) and short the battery. I've seen the damage it can do first hand.
The voltage across the series diode can be compensated by setting the voltage a bit higher but don't overdo it. There is not much extra charge going into the battery near the maximum charging voltage anyway.
Also: when using Lithium batteries always use a UN38 certified pack with an integrated protection circuit against overcharge, undervoltage and current limits.
Always, Never. Typical EU type thinking.Is it typical US type thinking to sort people into boxes? And am I an error because I don't follow these concerns?
(note: don't try to extinguish a LiPo battery fire with water, better have a bucket of sand available when doing such tests, and when charging)
To see charge/discharge curves from many chargers and batteries check here: http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/indexBatteriesAndChargers%20UK.html
For some reason I like the look of that PSU
On a power supply especially the less buttons and the cleaner the readouts of values the better.
I will not agree to that, I prefer to have a numeric keyboard and a rotary encoder, this way I can either key the voltage/current in or use the encoder to adjust it. This makes this close to ideal for me:
I think it's typical everywhere thinking to classify/group people together for a majority of people.
For some reason I like the look of that PSU
There's definitely something to admire about having a minimalist purpose-built appliance
I really like how there are arrows between the numbers presumably for easy fine adjustment of the voltage and current.
On a power supply especially the less buttons and the cleaner the readouts of values the better.
Doing a quick search online doesn't yield many results however. Going to look into this a little further. Have actually been shopping for a new bench-top PSU.
there is not much lithium in metallic form in those 18650 batteries, lithium is present there in a form of salt (it's the electrolyte).
What could be the green wire?
No need to be embarrassed by those Sony, Panasonic, Samsung or LG cells you use any more. Make any battery an UltraFireTM, just think of the capacity gains alone!
!MAJOR WARNING!
What Dave shows here is really dangerous! Never ever connect a battery to a generic power supply without a series diode! If something goes wrong in the power supply excessive currents may flow back into the power supply. Worse, some power supplies have a crow-bar (thyristor) across their output which gets activated in case of an error (overheating for example) and short the battery. I've seen the damage it can do first hand.
The voltage across the series diode can be compensated by setting the voltage a bit higher but don't overdo it. There is not much extra charge going into the battery near the maximum charging voltage anyway.
Also: when using Lithium batteries always use a UN38 certified pack with an integrated protection circuit against overcharge, undervoltage and current limits.Always, Never. Typical EU type thinking.
With a series diode, it gets tricky to set the maximum voltage right. Even with an R+D parallel combination the charging will turn to reduced current quite early and take longer.
With a series diode, it gets tricky to set the maximum voltage right. Even with an R+D parallel combination the charging will turn to reduced current quite early and take longer.With an 4-Terminal measurement of the cell, a diode should not be a problem
A fuse at the output of a PSU is a bad idea because it increases the PSU's output impedance which may be bad for other purposes.
A fuse at the output of a PSU is a bad idea because it increases the PSU's output impedance which may be bad for other purposes.Err, just put it in series with the battery. No need to permanently modify your supply.
chez never would have thought charging one battery would be so controversial. Dave get the shit flying [...]
A fuse at the output of a PSU is a bad idea because it increases the PSU's output impedance which may be bad for other purposes.Err, just put it in series with the battery. No need to permanently modify your supply.
Especially that impedance thing would become a never ending story haunting both, forum and YT comments for eternity
i don't know what it is about batteries...
Especially that impedance thing would become a never ending story haunting both, forum and YT comments for eternityi don't know what it is about batteries...
i don't know what it is about batteries...batteries, religion, and politics - what can you do
I know - lets talk about religious politician's cell phones batteries.
Especially that impedance thing would become a never ending story haunting both, forum and YT comments for eternity
I've noticed this on my previous battery videos (and I have a lot of them). I still get email from 5 year old videos.
i don't know what it is about batteries...
A fuse at the output of a PSU is a bad idea because it increases the PSU's output impedance which may be bad for other purposes.Err, just put it in series with the battery. No need to permanently modify your supply.That is not what Chipguy and Kleinstein suggested in their earlier posts!
The picture from the bench filled with -appearantly- Li-ion cells and heaps of lose wires just makes me cringe. But maybe I'm too old and no longer thrilled by the idea that something I do could set the house on fire and kill the inhabitants. Think about someone who enters the room and somehow causes a short circuit (bumping the table while cleaning, knocking something over, pulling a wire, etc).
A fuse at the output of a PSU is a bad idea because it increases the PSU's output impedance which may be bad for other purposes.Err, just put it in series with the battery. No need to permanently modify your supply.That is not what Chipguy and Kleinstein suggested in their earlier posts!
The picture from the bench filled with -appearantly- Li-ion cells and heaps of lose wires just makes me cringe. But maybe I'm too old and no longer thrilled by the idea that something I do could set the house on fire and kill the inhabitants. Think about someone who enters the room and somehow causes a short circuit (bumping the table while cleaning, knocking something over, pulling a wire, etc).
Lets face it, different people have different attitudes about their personal risk aversions with the actions they take with the hobbies and work they do. I know that probably driving is the biggest personal risk I face but I accept the randomness of the universe I find myself in.
Lets face it, different people have different attitudes about their personal risk aversions with the actions they take with the hobbies and work they do. I know that probably driving is the biggest personal risk I face but I accept the randomness of the universe I find myself in.
Especially that impedance thing would become a never ending story haunting both, forum and YT comments for eternity
I've noticed this on my previous battery videos (and I have a lot of them). I still get email from 5 year old videos.
i don't know what it is about batteries...its not about batteries, its about Lipo/LiIon. From my RC hobby, I already had two Lipos on fire personally, one of them almost burning up my house (ehmmm, should I mention not to charge them unattended...). Teslas on fire, burning iPhones and other gear hurting people, Segways in flames, airplane's possibly going down. A known of mine is selling Lipos, and he told me that he had a brand new Kokam in his stock, never touched or charged it, and it just caught fire in the shelf. Probably manufacturing defect.
Lets face it, different people have different attitudes about their personal risk aversions with the actions they take with the hobbies and work they do. I know that probably driving is the biggest personal risk I face but I accept the randomness of the universe I find myself in.I had a feeling someone would come up with this comparison but it doesn't hold up because (in most countries) you need a license to operate a car (or any motorised vehicle) in order to become aware of the dangers and (re)act accordingly.
If it's just battery then the company should have a list of serial numbers affected and not have to recall every phone.
(And they're probably doing some ass-covering as well, just in case. You know how the press loves these stories)
True, I think Samsung mobile sit started to turn a profit again and now this.
I did notice some countries had the Panasonic cell, and then they changed it to some other cell for other country releases. I guess it wasn't tested enough. I also noticed the top charge voltage was 4.4V and not 4.2V, and the nominal voltage was 3.85V and not 3.6V. I guess companies are under pressure to provide the most battery life because that as what people want. They want something to run all day and not have to charge it. I've only seen one like this were they are trying to push the capacity further in Li-Ion cells. You can see this on the iFixit tear down.
A fuse at the output of a PSU is a bad idea because it increases the PSU's output impedance which may be bad for other purposes.Err, just put it in series with the battery. No need to permanently modify your supply.That is not what Chipguy and Kleinstein suggested in their earlier posts!
The picture from the bench filled with -appearantly- Li-ion cells and heaps of lose wires just makes me cringe. But maybe I'm too old and no longer thrilled by the idea that something I do could set the house on fire and kill the inhabitants. Think about someone who enters the room and somehow causes a short circuit (bumping the table while cleaning, knocking something over, pulling a wire, etc).
Lets face it, different people have different attitudes about their personal risk aversions with the actions they take with the hobbies and work they do. I know that probably driving is the biggest personal risk I face but I accept the randomness of the universe I find myself in.
I'd prefer a choice of charging options in the phone config menu:
1) Charge to 4.2V - get maximum time between charges
2) Charge to 4.1V - get maximum battery longevity
Especially that impedance thing would become a never ending story haunting both, forum and YT comments for eternity
I've noticed this on my previous battery videos (and I have a lot of them). I still get email from 5 year old videos.
i don't know what it is about batteries...
I think this is the reason there's so much bad info on batteries that has persisted for so long, such as desulfation or the "memory effect".
I think this is the reason there's so much bad info on batteries that has persisted for so long, such as desulfation or the "memory effect".NiCd memory effect is not bad info, it was like that at the time (15 yrs ago (?)).
I think this is the reason there's so much bad info on batteries that has persisted for so long, such as desulfation or the "memory effect".NiCd memory effect is not bad info, it was like that at the time (15 yrs ago (?)).
The memory effect would emerge only after a set of several, very specific conditions were met.
It was very hard to reproduce in a lab and practically impossible to arise on a consumer device.
What people would atribute to the memory effect was in fact the normal battery degradation due to exceeding maximum charge cycles or otherwise mishandling the battery.
The current on the mains side is much lower, therefore the losses are much lower.
Well, i guess certain people forget Ohms law with power losses. But you can better have a fuse in front of the mains than in front of your battery. Assuming the fuse has the same resistance P=I^2*R.
Obviously. But why are we talking about fuses anyway?
I never said it would be a good solution to 'protect' your circuit?
The usb charge modules were already posted, but heres a ready made solution: https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10001919/5310300-miller-ml-101-v6-0-smart-18650-li-ion-battery
Compact, simple, cheap. You can also get a powerbank style that provides 5V usb output.
its not about batteries, its about Lipo/LiIon. From my RC hobby, I already had two Lipos on fire personally, one of them almost burning up my house (ehmmm, should I mention not to charge them unattended...). Teslas on fire, burning iPhones and other gear hurting people, Segways in flames, airplane's possibly going down. A known of mine is selling Lipos, and he told me that he had a brand new Kokam in his stock, never touched or charged it, and it just caught fire in the shelf. Probably manufacturing defect.