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33210A does have one very nice feature compared to the other AWG's mentioned - the output is isolated.
Thank you for that info!
I hadn't noticed the difference on the other AWG's.
In my (very limited) experience with function generators, I haven't encountered situations where output isolation was needed, but I can see that coming in handy in some scenarios. -
Well you could have done a few minutes research to find out what these have been selling for in similar condition, most buyers will do the same... except here they discover your price is unrealistic and then possibly never come back to check/consider it again.
I thought I had done my research but, obviously, not well enough.
To my defense, the listings I could find on eBay were at a similar price with mine, but I am aware eBay pricing is not necessarily indicative of market value (i.e. sellers listing items with silly price tags).
What I should have done more is look for Rigol & Siglent equivalent products and compared specs and prices.
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Don't feel bad about it, I think you're taking this pretty well.
I find the best way to price common test equipment is to search for it on eBay, and apply a filter by "sold". You'll then see what price they really go for (rather than what somebody wants).
Taking the 33210A as an example, none have sold in europe recently but one went in the US for $350 last month. The US is the land of milk and honey though when it comes to cheap second hand test equipment...
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IMHO, the 33210A is completely overpriced. For 350€ you get
- a new RIGOL DG1022Z (25MHz) instead of 10MHz with the Keysight
- 2 Channels instead of one
- Much more modulations, waveforms, arb, external reference and whatnot
- 3 years warranty
- If really short of money the DG1022Z can be hacked into a 60MHz model.
Buy a Keysight just because of the label
Given the alternatives mentioned here, I wonder how Keysight is selling these things (i.e. the 33210A)...
In any case, I need to review my lowest price threshold.
In fact I am *sure* they dont sell the 33210A very often. The big irons (33622A, e.g.) have some unique features like ultra low jitter,
so I think they can ask a good price for it and get away. The 33210A has too many competitors for a fraction of the price, plus a lot more features. -
Don't feel bad about it, I think you're taking this pretty well.
I find the best way to price common test equipment is to search for it on eBay, and apply a filter by "sold". You'll then see what price they really go for (rather than what somebody wants).
Taking the 33210A as an example, none have sold in europe recently but one went in the US for $350 last month. The US is the land of milk and honey though when it comes to cheap second hand test equipment...
Thank you!
I will do that with my future sales. -
In fact I am *sure* they dont sell the 33210A very often. The big irons (33622A, e.g.) have some unique features like ultra low jitter,
Now, with a more complete picture in my mind, I completely agree with you.
so I think they can ask a good price for it and get away. The 33210A has too many competitors for a fraction of the price, plus a lot more features.
Thank you for the explanation! -
Another price drop.
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I think that is quite a fair price.
Specialist equipment like this can take some time to sell, so be patient!
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Thank you for the confirmation and for the advice!
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For any prospective buyer, I've updated the initial post to mention the unit does not have the ARB option enabled (i.e. option 002).
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Another price drop...
I need to make space in my home "lab" (a few multimeters also coming up for sale soon). -
I am tempted! The AWG option is sorely missed though.
Out of interest I grabbed a quote for the upgrades (as well as the current list price), thought I'd share
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I am tempted! The AWG option is sorely missed though.
Out of interest I grabbed a quote for the upgrades (as well as the current list price), thought I'd share
... The Keysight upgrade prices are completely ridiculous. For *any* one of them you can get a complete new function generator with a lot more features, more channels, more frequency range, more memory, ... than the original equipment.
Everyday a dumb person wakes up - you only have to FIND him
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Your price is good and I am surprised that it has not sold with your latest price drop.
As long as the user does not need the ARB option 002, all is good.
I had called Keysight Germany and they answered:
Euro 370,- plus 19% Tax = Euro 440 = 392 GBP for the ARB option upgrade!
So, totally crazy, if you ask me.
For older instruments like this one, they should offer such upgrades for free.
https://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=1486620&nid=-536902257.0.00&id=1486620
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Your price is good and I am surprised that it has not sold with your latest price drop.
As long as the user does not need the ARB option 002, all is good.
I had called Keysight Germany and they answered:
Euro 370,- plus 19% Tax = Euro 440 = 392 GBP for the ARB option upgrade!
So, totally crazy, if you ask me.
For older instruments like this one, they should offer such upgrades for free.
https://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=1486620&nid=-536902257.0.00&id=1486620
Just to get this into a perspective, they are asking 400GBP for 8K, and the default standard for a Rigol is 8M. These people are sick. -
Just to get this into a perspective, they are asking 400GBP for 8K, and the default standard for a Rigol is 8M. These people are sick.
Come on guys, this is clearly a legacy instrument that Keysight kept in the lineup for commercial customers that need to replace this exact model. All major manufacturers do this, and coming from an industry branch that has to keep running equipment for many years, I really appreciate this.
But I understand, for a hobbyist the priorities are different. -
Come on guys, this is clearly a legacy instrument that Keysight kept in the lineup for commercial customers that need to replace this exact model. All major manufacturers do this, and coming from an industry branch that has to keep running equipment for many years, I really appreciate this.
But I understand, for a hobbyist the priorities are different.
Oh, let me bump the price back up to the original £700 tag, then.
Only kidding.
I understand what you are saying and agree with you, although I also agree with the others that they should at least drop the price for software upgrades (i.e. the ARB option).
Keysight can't really say it costs them to keep that option available in their inventory.
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Come on guys, this is clearly a legacy instrument that Keysight kept in the lineup for commercial customers that need to replace this exact model. All major manufacturers do this, and coming from an industry branch that has to keep running equipment for many years, I really appreciate this.
But I understand, for a hobbyist the priorities are different.
Oh, let me bump the price back up to the original £700 tag, then.
Only kidding.
I understand what you are saying and agree with you, although I also agree with the others that they should at least drop the price for software upgrades (i.e. the ARB option).
Keysight can't really say it costs them to keep that option available in their inventory.
Astronomic update prices are standard with Keysight. They try to recover all the money the lost on rebates they had to give when selling you the equipment.
My tip: Ask youself what you might need in the next 3 years, arrange a packet price including all options necessary, and very negotiate hard on this. Forget later updates. -
I had called Keysight Germany and they answered:
By the way, have you guys bought directly from Keysight? If so, what's the "process", in particular, how much rebate can you get from the list price?
I'm considering buying a 53220A counter
I've bought my 34465A new, from an official Keysight distributor in France, it was discounted, I don't remember exactly, must have been 10% or so.
I've also been able to take a 10% rebate coupon from Farnell on a E36121A, it was one of the rare occasion that they would allow test instrument to be discounted.
In both case, I didn't have to bargain.
As for pricing, yes, Keysight is more expensive. In particular, for waveform generators, Siglent and Rigol now have same performance specifications for much less.
Why buy Keysight then? If you had the money, would rather drive BMW, Mercedes, or Toyota, Nissan? (I drive Volvo
)
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By the way, have you guys bought directly from Keysight? If so, what's the "process", in particular, how much rebate can you get from the list price?
You may want to pick different brands to illustrate your point as Toyota and Nissan make objectively better cars than the "premium" brands. Statistics show Toyota and Nissan are much more reliable than the German brands. That in turn does illustrate the point people are making. Would you rather drive a basic and used 20 year old four cilinder BMW 1 series or a brand new 8 cilinder Toyota with all the bells and whistles for less money? I like good quality kit as much as the next guy but this is essentially a basic signal generator sold at a huge premium due to the badge. By omitting basic features it's not even that good a generator, regardless of any real or supposed quality difference.
I'm considering buying a 53220A counter
I've bought my 34465A new, from an official Keysight distributor in France, it was discounted, I don't remember exactly, must have been 10% or so.
I've also been able to take a 10% rebate coupon from Farnell on a E36121A, it was one of the rare occasion that they would allow test instrument to be discounted.
In both case, I didn't have to bargain.
As for pricing, yes, Keysight is more expensive. In particular, for waveform generators, Siglent and Rigol now have same performance specifications for much less.
Why buy Keysight then? If you had the money, would rather drive BMW, Mercedes, or Toyota, Nissan? (I drive Volvo ) -
By the way, have you guys bought directly from Keysight? If so, what's the "process", in particular, how much rebate can you get from the list price?
I'm considering buying a 53220A counter
I have bought many instruments from the official Keysight eBay store and have always been very happy with their service.
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I haven't had much luck selling things here, even at low prices. I think most of us are bargain hunters, we're looking for something cheap and many of us are experienced at finding cheap gear. Personally I like to gamble on as-is untested or known defective stuff that I can get even cheaper.
The best way to find the actual value of something is to look on ebay, but make sure you look at sold items, not the ridiculous asking prices on a lot of gear that sits for months or even years without selling.
Also high end gear is a lot like high end luxury cars. The people who are buying it new have deep pockets and are the sort who want new high end stuff. It depreciates rapidly though because the people who buy used cars (or high end test gear) typically have much lower budgets. Honestly you might be better off just listing it on ebay at this point, I'm not in the market for a function generator myself, I just bought a 33120a for $160 last year but after this many price drops people might just be waiting to see if it drops further. -
You may want to pick different brands to illustrate your point as Toyota and Nissan make objectively better cars than the "premium" brands. Statistics show Toyota and Nissan are much more reliable than the German brands. That in turn does illustrate the point people are making. Would you rather drive a basic and used 20 year old four cilinder BMW 1 series or a brand new 8 cilinder Toyota with all the bells and whistles for less money? I like good quality kit as much as the next guy but this is essentially a basic signal generator sold at a huge premium due to the badge. By omitting basic features it's not even that good a generator, regardless of any real or supposed quality difference.
I was rather about comparing Rigol's DG2000 series vs Keysight 33500B series.
The DG2000s have specifications that basically meet those of the 33500Bs, but at basically half the price.
There are some details that makes 33500Bs (and 33210A) better for some use, for example at low frequency, sine wave is only 0.04% THD vs 0.075% for Rigol.
For audio, the 33210A would be perfect.
Comparing BMW with Toyota or even Nissan, is indeed incorrect as Toyota has a long proven history of reliability, and objectively, you can indeed consider them "better" than other "premium" brands.
In particular, total cost of ownership is no match: cheap at buying, cheap at maintenance (parts easy to find, no loss of resale value by not going to manufacturer's licensed garage, no need for "premium" gas), proven reliability, etc.
However buying cars, is not something so "rational" for some people, hence Mercedes, BMW can prosper.
For engineering, even if Keysight is more expensive, for "professional" use, there are still a few reason to pay the extra price.
In particular, this is a "proven" company, it has a network of distributors. -
I haven't had much luck selling things here, even at low prices. I think most of us are bargain hunters, we're looking for something cheap and many of us are experienced at finding cheap gear. Personally I like to gamble on as-is untested or known defective stuff that I can get even cheaper.
The best way to find the actual value of something is to look on ebay, but make sure you look at sold items, not the ridiculous asking prices on a lot of gear that sits for months or even years without selling.
Also high end gear is a lot like high end luxury cars. The people who are buying it new have deep pockets and are the sort who want new high end stuff. It depreciates rapidly though because the people who buy used cars (or high end test gear) typically have much lower budgets. Honestly you might be better off just listing it on ebay at this point, I'm not in the market for a function generator myself, I just bought a 33120a for $160 last year but after this many price drops people might just be waiting to see if it drops further.
I hear you (this is the reason I only look for broken stuff when searching on eBay; most of the times anyway).
Yes, eBay is probably going to yield a better price, but then you also have to pay eBay and PayPal fees, plus there's also the risk of buyer asking for a return/refund (if for justified reasons, then I would have no issues; but I've had an experience in the past where they complained about something I did not find reasonable, yet had to cut my losses and accept the return).
I have more confidence and trust in people here (except for very new users with only a handful of posts).
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Just to mention this is now sold.
Thanks to all who contributed to this thread!
I didn't expect it to grow this long, but it certainly gave me a few things to think about.
If you feel so inclined, you are more than welcome to continue the conversation.
Thank you again!