Just had an email someone who said their (very) old WTCTP went up in smoke in a transformer failure (120V unit)
Just had an email someone who said their (very) old WTCTP went up in smoke in a transformer failure (120V unit)Pic of primary-side fuseholder 0.6A underneath the (Canadian) unit. This is old, solenoid-style transformer. Before Danaher was involved.
AFAICT many concerned posts here are not solely or remotely based on "conjecture and perception" but on equipment safety and reliabilty/longevity in the event of a fault, be it an internal or external cause
i.e. the fuse blows, immediate danger averted, there is no assumption required that Weller 'may' or may not actually performed actual proper engineering,
nor why they really cheaped out on 120 volt customers, with apologist PR quickie BS identifying their units as low hazard risks.
A cheap properly rated fuse arrangement is an easy upgrade to very low hazard to no hazard status,
and helps the manufacturer keep a low hazard distance from courtrooms
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FWIW to GFCI and RCD "faithers",
if the unfused soldering station is smouldering away nicely, chances are excellent the GFCI, RCD, MCB, RCBO will not trip
i.e. the barbeque load may be balanced in relation to ground/earth,
and way below the MCB threshold
but the power strip board with cutout temp breaker switch might, if you're lucky to have one and the room hasn't caught fire yet
and the smoke detector might sound off, if one is fitted nearby
which won't do you any favours if the bench is left unattended by the user who has gone off to pick up pizza, diodes, caps, fuse kit,Weller and Hakko brochures,
and perhaps a pair of discounted fire extinguishers, fire blanket and bucket of sand too,
especially after reading thisThanks for the highlighting as it shows how I'm expressing myself carefully. I don't like to present matters as facts when I don't have solid evidence to back that claim up. As opposed to the endless and fairly malicious conjecture of some people here, assuming all kinds of things based on their perception of how things should be done but without any actual testing or knowledge of the decisions involved in the design process. If you go around calling a company out, it pays to have something more than "I feel it's a risk" to back that up. Otherwise they're just fairly hysterical imaginary scenarios made up to rationalize angry fist shaking.
Just had an email someone who said their (very) old WTCTP went up in smoke in a transformer failure (120V unit)Real data beats conjecture every time, even if it's anecdotal. What was the end result?
Woo, anecdotal evidence! Got us all convinced.
The discussion here is running along the "are safety belts really neccessary ?" lines. Fuses prevent major damages even if such events are (hopefully, I dont know where else Weller has cut corners) rare. Not everything that is (barely) legel and increases profit (by a ridiculous amount) is smart in the end.
the umbrella statement that here the state leaves everyone to "fend for themselves".
How sensible it is to add a very basic level of protection to a product that is designed by a very reputable company?
120Vac can kill someone, healthy or not, depending on the conditions of the event.
How sensible it is to add a very basic level of protection to a product that is designed by a very reputable company?I am not Weller's product design or sales department, so it's not up to me how they should market their products. Crucifying them because one person's iron popped when plugged into the wrong voltage is silly.
they deliberately chose to do this on a few products.
but there is no reason why it shouldn't be discussed.
If it was no big deal, then why do Weller add a primary fuse to most of their products?
Questioning the need for a mains fuse on an appliance is ridiculous
trolls saying ..."prove one is necessary"
Engineers are bound by a code of ethics to "hold paramount the safety, health, and welfare of the public."
Logic alone dictates Weller has pulled a prize boner
Why does this Weller product get the magical unicorn exemption?
Dave, this is the third time you've repeated yourself.
But really, the only ones who can answer that are Weller.
Dave, this is the third time you've repeated yourself. I've attempted to answer you twice already, so I'll let you scroll back. But really, the only ones who can answer that are Weller.
From old WTCPT manual for the iron that burnt down, no primary fuse
Because people keep asking over and over again why people are making a big deal over this. And they keep coming back with the argument that it's 240V into a 120V tranny so it deserved to fail etc.
I don't know if this has been asked before because there are too many pages of this thread to read through. BUT:
Could someone do an actual experiment to test the assumption that a fuse would help? Wire a suitably rated fuse into the mains cord of a 120 V Weller iron and demonstrate that the fuse does not blow under normal use at 120 V with any load on the iron, but that the same fuse blows quickly if the iron is plugged into 240 V?
Will a normal over current fuse behave this way, or would it require a thermal fuse built into the transformer?
Wow, that is pretty ironic!
We have also read your opinions multiple times, but many of us clearly don't agree with it - just as you don't agree with ours.
Weller have yet to provide a decent response. Hopefully after the holidays they will - else they will likely see a measurable hit on sales targets.
I don't know if this has been asked before because there are too many pages of this thread to read through. BUT:
Could someone do an actual experiment to test the assumption that a fuse would help? Wire a suitably rated fuse into the mains cord of a 120 V Weller iron and demonstrate that the fuse does not blow under normal use at 120 V with any load on the iron, but that the same fuse blows quickly if the iron is plugged into 240 V?
Will a normal over current fuse behave this way, or would it require a thermal fuse built into the transformer?
Logic, common sense and sound business practice to score repeat and loyal customers would fit both to cover all bases
or hang all that, fit both just so the CEO and staff at Weller can sleep better
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FWIW I don't agree DJ should cop the rap of 'user error' on a unit made by a company that flogs it's wares to a 120 volt @ 60 hz nation that also has a 240 volt supply.
DJ plugged it in and the unit smoked because the manufacturer FAILED to deploy a cheap fusing device to prevent an input voltage mishap,
and no real obvious appropriate caution labeling
Had DJ tried to run the unit from a 120 volt ugly square wave inverter, some aviation 400hz thingie or a dimmer buzz adapter to control the temperature, and the unit smoked or popped a lamination after a time,
well, that's definitely a strong case for 'user error'
I don't know if this has been asked before because there are too many pages of this thread to read through. BUT:
Could someone do an actual experiment to test the assumption that a fuse would help? Wire a suitably rated fuse into the mains cord of a 120 V Weller iron and demonstrate that the fuse does not blow under normal use at 120 V with any load on the iron, but that the same fuse blows quickly if the iron is plugged into 240 V?
Will a normal over current fuse behave this way, or would it require a thermal fuse built into the transformer?
AFAICT many concerned posts here are not solely or remotely based on "conjecture and perception" but on equipment safety and reliabilty/longevity in the event of a fault, be it an internal or external cause
i.e. the fuse blows, immediate danger averted, there is no assumption required that Weller 'may' or may not actually performed actual proper engineering,
nor why they really cheaped out on 120 volt customers, with apologist PR quickie BS identifying their units as low hazard risks.
A cheap properly rated fuse arrangement is an easy upgrade to very low hazard to no hazard status,
and helps the manufacturer keep a low hazard distance from courtrooms
----------------------------
FWIW to GFCI and RCD "faithers",
if the unfused soldering station is smouldering away nicely, chances are excellent the GFCI, RCD, MCB, RCBO will not trip
Completely agree.
The discussion about the GFCIs was about the claim that "110v won't kill". Well, they will, at least under certain circumstances, or there would be no GFCIs installed at all.
I readed that the voltage legally considered safe to "touch" is between 40 and 50v in most places.